Hi guys,

I went out and bought Descent a few weeks ago for our gaming group and have run the first scenario a few times. Before we even started our first game I did some research and found that most people thought that the heroes had an advantage in game. I wanted a balance game so I tweaked a few rules but I think I may have gone too far as the heroes are failing to complete the dungeon. Here are a few questions I have regarding general game play, please give me your answers on correct rulings and thoughts on how to balance things out fairly. We are only using the base set game.

1) In "Into the Dark" ( scenario 1 ) , it looks like in the diagram that the end red giant is surrounded by 2 red manticores, is this correct? The game only comes with 1 red manticore, is this correct?

2) As overlord, are you allowed to spawn creatures behind the heroes in previously explored rooms if they spawn out of LOS?

3)Can you spawn monsters and move/ fight with them on the same turn?

4) Do all breath attacks cause burn? ( ie hellhounds )

What I did to try and balance out the game was:

limit the heroes to only lvl 2/3 characters,

distribute only 1 item per treasure chest,

not allow diagnal movement or attack if there was blocking terrain in either front squares,

force them to travel the entire dungeon by removing the center door from play.

This is too much though. As I spawn monsters behind them I am always able to kill the mages/ rogues in the group.

Also, is there any old FAQ's around that may answer just basic questions we run into by playing the base game. Thanks for your help and thoughts.

1) In "Into the Dark" ( scenario 1 ) , it looks like in the diagram that the end red giant is surrounded by 2 red manticores, is this correct? The game only comes with 1 red manticore, is this correct?

Yes it is. There is a sheet on the support page that has rules for using some of the normal monsters for Master monsters.

2) As overlord, are you allowed to spawn creatures behind the heroes in previously explored rooms if they spawn out of LOS?

Yes

3)Can you spawn monsters and move/ fight with them on the same turn?

Yes, since you have to play a Spawn card before activating monsters.

4) Do all breath attacks cause burn? ( ie hellhounds )

No. Unless the monster card says it has Burn, the attack doesn't gain Burn.

What I did to try and balance out the game was:

limit the heroes to only lvl 2/3 characters,

Not sure exactly what you mean by lvl 2/3 characters. Do you mean ones that are conquest value 2 or 3? If that is the case, you are taking away access to some very good characters.

distribute only 1 item per treasure chest,

Going overboard here IMO and really hurting the heroes.

not allow diagnal movement or attack if there was blocking terrain in either front squares,

Why? Sorry my friend, but that makes no sense whatsoever to me.

force them to travel the entire dungeon by removing the center door from play.

I'd have to look at the map.

This is too much though. As I spawn monsters behind them I am always able to kill the mages/ rogues in the group.

That is your heroes fault not yours. Speed is essential in Descent. If they are moving slow enough that you can do that, then they need to move faster.

Also, is there any old FAQ's around that may answer just basic questions we run into by playing the base game. Thanks for your help and thoughts.

The current FAQ has everything in it from previous versions. Also, the GLoAQ thread on the forum here has some answers.

One thing: The first Quest in JitD is practically an auto-lose for the OL. The quest is there to teach the basics of the game and it is therefore very slanted towards the heroes. The next quest, the heroes have to learn a few tactical lessons to complete.

I would strongly advise against using any tweaks or houserules until you've played a few more Quests.

Lowecore said:

1. Sorry, can't comment as the scenario booklet is not available as a pdf.

2. Yes, absolutely.

3. Yes absolutely

4. No. Only attacks that have the Burn ability listed cause burn. The breath template might look like flames but is totally unrelated to the 'Burn' ability.

Not meaning to be rude, but it really is stretching somewhat to try and balance something you haven't played before and don't have much understanding of.

a) the CT value has nothing to do with 'level', or with hero capability. Some of the best heroes of all are CT value 2. CT value is related almost entirely to how hard to kill a hero is for the OL - how many wounds and how much armour the hero has, and whether the hero has a defensive ability. The heroes should really have a balanced party for strength, and because melee heroes are thematically mostly bigger and tougher that means having a mix of CT value heroes as well (mostly).
However this change does not break any core mechanics in the game.

b) this change is a massive and devastating disruption of a core mechanic. The heroes generally need some good weapons to take on the tougher monsters found near the end of a quest, and especially the boss monster. The amount of treasures available to the heroes is carefully calibrated as part of the quest engine - if the quest has more tough monsters you will find there are more and/or higher value chests available. Add in the fact that not all treasures are weapons and you have a high probability that you are asking heroes to go up against monsters that they literally cannot kill with the equipment available to them - assuming they get that far, which they probably won't. Sorry, but the treasure chest thing is a core mechanic and this change on its own will destroy most quest's viability.

c) this is a really weird change and fundamental to a bunch of things. Descent is fundamentally a race. The heroes must achieve a certain goal, racing against a ticking clock as the OL's total resources increase each turn. Messing with 'adjacency' (which is what you are doing) changes movement dynamics, attack dynamics and even LOS dynamics completely. These are the core, core mechanisms and if you mess with them they affect e verything in ways that cannot be fully conceived.

d) can't comment as 1. above.

I strongly suggest you play the rules without trying to change too much until you have played at least the first 5-6 quests. 'Balance' varies strongly from group to group depending on how well various players 'get' the game and how well they adapt to different strategies.
As OL you should expect to lose the first quest badly because it is designed to be easy for the heroes to introduce them to the game (there may be 4 f them and one of you).
The second quest is even easier for the heroes - but only if they grasp the solution. If they do not grasp the solution they will find it impossible. This is because it is another learning quest designed to teach the players that Descent is not an exercise in dungeon clearing but a race against time to achieve a certain goal - and fighting monsters is not that goal.
IIRC the third quest is still an easy one for the heroes but thereafter it becomes more even and there are some quests which are very, very difficult. By the time you have finished the first book, or nearly finished it, you might be ready to start fiddling with your own house rules - or ready to get an expansion which introduces new rules, new 'balance' and a bunch of new quests, few of which are easy for the heroes.

The FAQ is available at www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent/faq/descent-v-1-3.pdf

The "level" restriction could possibly be referring to the basic campaign rules, though I recommend against using them, and heroes would be level 1 for the first quest anyway.

How many heroes are you playing with? Things can become very, very hard for the heroes if there are only two of them; I recommend you play with at least 3, no matter how few players are at the table.

One last note to add to the above. The first quest in the bastic game is -easy-. And when I say easy I mean that it is made so that totaly new players, that make millions of misstakes, can still win. Trying to balance anything based on the first dungeon is madness (or possibly Sparta).

Play a few dungeons, and perhaps read a strategy guide if one side is getting clobbered, before you start thinking of changing things.

Lowecore said:

In my personal opinion the game is actually very well balanced between heroes and overlord as is. But that balance is very easily disturbed if one side or or the other makes mistakes. There are also a number of highly illogical rules that, if house-ruled, can break the game one way or the other. My best advice is to avoid changing the rules at all costs. Think of the game as representing a computer RPG rather than a pen and paper RPG and it will become much easier to see how things fit together (treasures appearing in people's packs when someone else opens a chest, unable to cross water, etc)

People will, of course, make mistakes during a game and those mistakes will often cost them victory. It's a harsh lesson, but it teaches people to stay on top. It's a big part of what makes the game such a gritty, down and out brawl between heroes and OL, and that's one of the things I like about this game. We can't stop you from making house rules for your game (nor would we want to - it's your game to have fun with), but keep in mind that altering rules to change what looks like a balance issue in one direction could easily cause new balance issues the other way.

Thank you Corbon, this is good advice and I will definately try this approach.

Steve-O said:

I think this is stressing the point rather too far, though I certainly agree that you should play more than just the first quest before attempting to make sweeping, major rules changes. And I do agree, the base game *works* as originally written (the "one potion per turn" rule from errata is definitely helpful, but I'm not convinced even that is *essential*), but that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't have fun tinkering with the rules.

YellowPebble said:

I'm not suggesting that you can't change the rules if you want to. As I said before, it's your game to have fun with. In my personal experience, however, making house rules to address one issue ends up causing six other issues elsewhere in the system. Changing the rules is more effort than it's worth, again, in my personal experience. That goes double if you've just bought the game and have only played the first quest. If you go off half-cocked and start rewriting the rules before you've even experienced most of the crazy nonsense that pops up in the game, you're just asking for trouble.

Normally I'm a big fan of house rules. Doom, Twilight Imperium, many others. I enjoy personalizing things to my own tastes. In the case of Descent, however, I have learned to leave well enough alone. Therefore, my advice to a new player would be to avoid changing the rules at all costs. If the OP (or you, for that matter) choose to take a different path, that is your right and your choice to make. Everything I say is my own opinion, nothing more.