Hi,

I always played Mtg with friends, so we had a smaller card base to work with. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the concept.

Decks are usually made to perform some work: Mill cards, destroy Creatures, shuffle the hand of the player, etc. The structure of the decks in keyforge, even with the algotithim, will group cards that perform some kind of combo. So, once you figure out what that deck it's supposed to achieve, you already know if it will be achievable or not.

For example: let's say the deck whole combo is based around a creature and some power-ups. If the creature is destoyed, and if the deck have no way to ressurect it, the deck is crippled. the rest of the synergies don't work, and you never could prevent it, because you can't deckbuild.

If you play with friends, and each have a deck, in the case one deck may be consistently stronger than the other. You will keep losing, and will be forced to buy another deck.

Also, the feeling that "this deck could be awesome if only that card was here..." will be consistent.

I see the appeal of fixed decks. But also see the problems that the system will bring. Lcg's couldn't fix the power creep, but this solution is equally inneficient.

Sorry for the grammar

Interesting question but that too should be thought before or during the design of the algorithm.

If a deck is destroyed because it puts all its eggs in one basket and that basket gets holed during the game...that could prove some weakness of the deck indeed.

If anyone who has seen it running can add something to it because if the playability of a deck is ruined by the disappearance of an unrecoverable card then indeed it will be tough. But maybe those decks are built so you can have more than one way to win the match.

This game is going to require that people adjust their thinking. Instead of acquiring the best cards and building the best deck, you have to make the best of the deck you have. You have to learn and adjust on the fly.

Will some decks be better than others? I'm sure, but I'd bet that the VAST majority of the decks are going to be somewhere in the middle and that tactics, skill and card knowledge will play way more of a factor than the cards in your deck.

Thing to note for your specific example: all decks have a built in way to resurrect things. When you get through your deck you shuffle your discard pile and keep going.

Also, I think the original poster is over-estimating the narrow-focus built into the algorithm. Each deck has a variety of things you can do, with some interaction between them. Knowing when to shift gears based on the board state and your hand, when to dig for the combo, and when to plow ahead with your current board state is what is going to set good players apart from bad.

11 hours ago, keraun0s said:

Decks are usually made to perform some work: Mill cards, destroy Creatures, shuffle the hand of the player, etc. The structure of the decks in keyforge, even with the algotithim, will group cards that perform some kind of combo. So, once you figure out what that deck it's supposed to achieve, you already know if it will be achievable or not.

Sorry for the grammar

I don't expect the decks to have much actual major combo's. The algorithm is there to make sure that if you have some kind of tribal tech that their will be some other tribal cards in it. We will have to wait and see how good the actual algorithm is. You should "forget" your previous experiences with cardgames like magic, L5R, vampire, doomtown, etc because in those kinds of cardgames the deckbuilding part is so important. A meta can be so strict that your deck perhaps only has a 20% winrate against another deck. Which isn't fun and one of the reasons that they play several decks against another in Heartstone. It's probably true that some Keyforge decks might have similair bad matchups (but their will be only so many versions of that deck out there, and even 1 or 2 diffrent cards can change a deck drasticly if we are talking about 36 card decks)

For me the main advantages of this game are:

- The thing I dislike the most about cardgames, especially in tournaments, is that you'll often face the same deck over and over again. In keyforge, if the balance between houses is somewhat decent, this will not be the case. If I travel all the way to a tournament to just play againt 2/3 diffrent decks in 7+ games which I already saw in my local meta or in previous tournaments isn't always the experience i'm looking for and isn't the reason I started, and loved, playing cardgames.

- If it's a fun game (and it looks fast-paced and fun) it's easy to just start playing. Hook up with a friend, go to your local gamestore, pick up a deck each, buy a drink, sit at a table and play a best of 5. It's like going out to the cinema, but for gamers.

- If someone claims he has the worst deck, don't you, as a gamer, want to take his deck and beat him with it? On reddit someone even suggested a Worst-of-Tournament, everyone takes his worst deck and before the game starts you switch decks with your opponent. It's a fun format and this game is perfect for it.

- If people don't take it too seriously it can be a generous community. One of the best aspects of the old L5R community was that due to clan loyalty everyone had cards he didn't use. I started because someone gave me nearly all his crane and unicorn cards. Together with some other free cards I could start playing almost immediatly. Later on I gave entire decks away to people who were interested so they could join. If I don't like a deck, someone else will perhaps. If it's an adult he/she can offer me a drink, if it's a child I've given him a swell childhood memory and he can have another deck for his sibling/friend so he can play at home.

Lots of ifs but we'll see. The game is an attempt at bringing back the pre-internet non-competitive magic to cardgaming. It looks fast to play and teach and if it has sufficient tactical depth for my taste i'm willing to lose the deckbuilding aspect (which I love btw) to have a good and fun game.

I was at Gencon for the release at the flight report. I have played 8 games 4 with each deck I was given. It plays well even though we used genaric dice as counters and markers. The decks are 100% random. Each deck is individual and no 2 decks will ever be the same. The math is solid. There are 100billion possibilities and adding to that is the unique deck labeling to ensure there is no card swaping. Learn to play with the faction types. You may find you like some more than others. Then buy decks till you find what you want, just dont open the plastic. People will be looking for certain faction combinations so that is the only way to retain value. Once a deck has been played and registered...they add "chains" to the deck if found to be OP.