13 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well.. she costs more than Chewbacca. And she only takes 1 action per turn, and she gets stressed. I'd say she is fair.

Just hyperbole man. I feel the new Defender is spot on cost-wise. I'll hopefully give them a try tonight!

Be great to see some results of people using the 2e Defenders.

My options to pair with a I think Juke/FCS Rexlar are...

Three Bombers

Two Gunboats

Inferno Squad

I think. There's undoubtedly something I've missed. But those would look cool, which is always a nice starting point

17 minutes ago, SDCC said:

Be great to see some results of people using the 2e Defenders.

My options to pair with a I think Juke/FCS Rexlar are...

Three Bombers

Two Gunboats

Inferno Squad

I think. There's undoubtedly something I've missed. But those would look cool, which is always a nice starting point

3 Interceptors comfortably fit. They should be pretty good blockers and they can throw out a healthy amount of red dice.

I'm not afraid of Krennic with Defenders. Even in 1.0, it slowly whittled. In 2.0, Krennic's carrier has to lock and the prototype has to catch you in arc. That and phantoms can die rather quickly without care, or if they get ioned with only 2 evade symbols max unless it is r3 or behind a rock.

16 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I've had the Adv Sensor Ryad build on my mind since I first saw Defenders could get Sensors. I put Outmaneuver on her instead of Lone Wolf, considering what she's capable of, plus no HLC for a cool 100pts. I know I lose the reroll, but you make up for it with your target rolling fewer dice and reds are better than greens.

BUT, you have to back her up. I've been thinking a pair of Squints or a Bomber/Punisher combo. Any ideas?

Bombers seem fantastic now. If you set up a pair of bombers on one side of the board and Ryad with Lone Wolf on the other, it'll make target priority difficult

EDIT: if you really wanna do it, you can run 3 bombers with barrage rockets with LW/AS Ryad. 200 points on the nose

Id probably agree on dropping the cannon, though.

9 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'm not real keen on the limited charge nature of collision detector. It seems great on lesser ships, but for something that lasts as long as a Defender, I want a card more regularly used.

I'm open to having my mind changed, though.

Honestly, I'm intending to use it a bunch.

It's not so much about being dash frigging rendar for two turns, it's about the clutch moment where k turning over a rock is ABSOLUTELY the right move that people simply won't expect or can't plan for for whatever reason.

Or where rolling onto a rock and ignoring its effect gets you a clutch shot.

I wouldn't expect to use it more than once or twice per game, but when I do, it will be absolutely essential. But then, I#m thinking more about it for Guri than Defenders.

So, I flew Ryad/adv sensors/outmaneuver tonight and I wanted something to back her up so I hit the easy button and flew Brath/adv sensors/juke/homing missiles with her. I was up against Luke, a Rogue Ace E-Wing and Arvel with a variety of upgrades and it was no contest. I never even pulled a damage card. That said, my opponent should have disengaged to regroup at some point (we played the entire game in about two square feet of space after leaving our deployment zones) and he also didn't fully comprehend the effectiveness of Defenders with advanced sensors until after the first pass. My dice got a little hot near the end where I had a couple 3 hit rolls with no mods, but most of my damage came from my few modded shots (one target lock and a lot of focus).

Overall, amazing. Juke is a waste on Brath - Outmaneuver is BANANAS on this build. I tacked on Homing Missiles thinking Brath's ability would make them crit damage dealers, but it never came up. Juke was also a disappointment, as my opponent was consistently using focus and a two ship build meant I was often splitting fire so no follow-up shots on the target with no focus (having used focus vs Brath to make up for Juke). Next time, Brath gets Outmaneuver.

The downside: I was often firing unmodded dice, but lots of them. I was consistently at range 1 throwing 4 reds at targets, but Ryad had outmaneuver so each shot payed off as Luke was rolling only 1 green - I hit him for 4 damage at rng 1 when he rolled no paint on his 1 die (I'd plinked his shields earlier). I was patient, keeping my ships out of arc wherever possible, and then grabbing a focus where I could, often to great effect (one roll I had 1 hit and 3 eyeballs - YES, I will spend that focus token now pleaseandthankyou).

These ships are SCARY. There are for sure counters to them that I want to explore. I wanna fight some turrets with them to see if they hold up. I also want to try some different back-up (bombers, gunships, Punisher, Squints). That's next.

Anybody else give Defenders a shot since the thread started?

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:01 PM, Bad Idea Comics said:

Crap, I hadn't even thought of Daredevil. Ryad is disgusting as is - with Daredevil it doesn't even seem fair. Though she'd be stressed going into the next turn after the Daredevil action.

Hence advanced sensors; perform red boost to swing around 90' and then perform a green move. Still lose actions post-maneuver but the ability to turn like that makes it worth considering.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Hence advanced sensors; perform red boost to swing around 90' and then perform a green move. Still lose actions post-maneuver but the ability to turn like that makes it worth considering.

But then you're missing out on what makes this combo so awesome. Ryad could Daredevil, then K-turn, keeping nose on target no matter where they go. I mean, I get it, it's still effective and super cool, but it does have a sizable negative. I'm sticking with outmaneuver.

52 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

But then you're missing out on what makes this combo so awesome. Ryad could Daredevil, then K-turn, keeping nose on target no matter where they go. I mean, I get it, it's still effective and super cool, but it does have a sizable negative. I'm sticking with outmaneuver.

You do know that Ryad has green K-turns, therefore allowing her to perform the exact maneuver you described, yes?

You miss out on the outmaneuver dice in exchange for the ability to K-turn essentially sideways.

7 minutes ago, Delta57Dash said:

You do know that Ryad has green K-turns, therefore allowing her to perform the exact maneuver you described, yes?

You miss out on the outmaneuver dice in exchange for the ability to K-turn essentially sideways.

2e Ryad does not have green K Turns. Probably for exactly this reason.

THe beauty of Ryad is that you can dial a green, daredevil, then do the green if it still works, or change it to a k in exchange for a stress.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

2e Ryad does not have green K Turns. Probably for exactly this reason.

THe beauty of Ryad is that you can dial a green, daredevil, then do the green if it still works, or change it to a k in exchange for a stress.

Oh right duh she increases the difficulty to white.

Ignore me me I haven't had my coffee.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

2e Ryad does not have green K Turns. Probably for exactly this reason.

THe beauty of Ryad is that you can dial a green, daredevil, then do the green if it still works, or change it to a k in exchange for a stress.

Yep, this. It's great if you need to chase someone down (especially if they thought they could get away) and there's always the option of K-turning, but then you're rolling unmodded dice either way. Outmaneuver at least made unmodded dice a bit more effective and then really shines when you can mod your dice. Overall, Ryad is UH-MAY-ZING. Init 4 really isn't bad either - I was even catching Luke with my fancy flying and he moved after her. Someone else please give her a try - I'm curious about how she operates vs other lists and with different support.

Ok, i just found a way to make this even more hilarious even though its not really all that amazing in practice.

Ciena Ree crewed ship giving Coordinate to Ryad.

Ciena Ree's effect is not stress cancelled, so even after doing a boost with the 1turn template (its still a boost in 2.0) and getting a stress you can rotate 90 degrees and get another stress, or do a normal boost and rotate with 1 stress.

The result? Straight backwards 5k or 4/8 o'clock angled 5k's. She can kturn in 8 freakin directions!! rofl

I highly doubt this maneuver would be a wise idea but its still freaking hilarious

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Ok, i just found a way to make this even more hilarious even though its not really all that amazing in practice.

Ciena Ree crewed ship giving Coordinate to Ryad.

Ciena Ree's effect is not stress cancelled, so even after doing a boost with the 1turn template (its still a boost in 2.0) and getting a stress you can rotate 90 degrees and get another stress, or do a normal boost and rotate with 1 stress.

The result? Straight backwards 5k or 4/8 o'clock angled 5k's.

I highly doubt this maneuver would be a wise idea but its still freaking hilarious

It's a pretty amazing maneuver, really, but I'm not sure the double stress is worth it. Maybe without Daredevil, it's still hugely flexible and no double stress.

4 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Ok, i just found a way to make this even more hilarious even though its not really all that amazing in practice.

Ciena Ree crewed ship giving Coordinate to Ryad.

 Ciena Ree's effect is not stress cancelled, so even after doing a boost with the 1turn template (its still a boost in 2.0) and getting a stress you can rotate 90 degrees and get another stress, or do a normal boost and rotate with 1 stress.

 The result? Straight backwards 5k or 4/8 o'clock angled 5k's. She can kturn in 8 freakin directions!! rofl

 I highly doubt this maneuver would be a wise idea but its still freaking hilarious

Thanks for this.

Oh yeah like i said i doubt it's practical.

It would allow her to move like this without daredevil so she could take Juke for when she wasnt stressed (also allows her to go in the V directions w/o stress and w/o negating her normal action if you just coordinate in general).

Biggest issue is cost. Thats about 145-150pts between the defender and the lambda/reaper and other than this hilarious trick....not much profit

Im doing it once i get 2.0, even if its not that great, just to get the reaction rofl "Wait, you did what?" haha

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Oh yeah like i said i doubt it's practical.

It would allow her to move like this without daredevil so she could take Juke for when she wasnt stressed (also allows her to go in the V directions w/o stress and w/o negating her normal action if you just coordinate in general).

Biggest issue is cost. Thats about 145-150pts between the defender and the lambda/reaper and other than this hilarious trick....not much profit

I think the biggest weakness of the Defender is that they've got to do damage. They aren't great at it for the points. God help us if they ever release a really good cannon.

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I think the biggest weakness of the Defender is that they've got to do damage. They aren't great at it for the points. God help us if they ever release a really good cannon.

I feel like they pretty much want Juke, Predator, Ruthless, Lone Wolf, Free Range 3+ Locks, Coordinate, or a Palp Force charge at all times.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

I think the biggest weakness of the Defender is that they've got to do damage. They aren't great at it for the points. God help us if they ever release a really good cannon.

How about a Defender Elite config that trades away the cannon slot for a 4-dice attack? The Elites had eight(!) laser cannons on them, if that doesn't deserve four dice than nothing does.

1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

How about a Defender Elite config that trades away the cannon slot for a 4-dice attack? The Elites had eight(!) laser cannons on them, if that doesn't deserve four dice than nothing does.

20 points?

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

20 points?

That's the exact number I was thinking. It was supposed to be more heavily shielded as well, so maybe tack on a shield as well?

I want fewer easy 4-dice attacks, not more. At any point cost. Kinda disappointed in the YT-2400 at this point, but at least that ship makes the Defender seem affordable.

Anyhow: here's my pitch: When you make a cannon attack, you may roll 1 fewer die. If you do, you may perform a bonus primary attack, rolling 1 fewer die. With Ions, double 2-dice or 3-dice at range 1 attacks, regardless of arc. Best against low-agility ships. With an HLC at range 2-3, you'd get a 3-dice primary if not with bullseye, the same 3-dice with the cannon, and a free 2-dice attack when you can line it up. Either way, you can even double-proc Rexler Brath's ability, for extra nastiness. Also works great with Juke, since they won't have Focus tokens to spend on both attacks. I'd figure a configuration like that ought to cost... 5 points. Seems fair to me. Getting a full 2-dice attack when you line up a bullseye seems worth around 9 points total to me.

i could see 20 for +1 attack +1 shield.

Definitely not 20 for +1 attack, the JM5K +1 attack is 8pts (though you also gotta factor in going from 3->4 is bigger than 2->3, either way definitely not a 12pt difference)

Thats around 125pts for a 4/3/3/5 statline that still struggles for mods on its own. Wouldnt really call it an "easy 4 die attack" when its mostly naked.

Even old linked battery letting you reroll a primary attack dice would be nice.