1 hour ago, Punning Pundit said:we end up devaluing all the other ships in the game.
Samll numbers of fighters can be extremely valuable within the context of larger ship battles. A frigate doesn't mean fighters are useless; it changes the nature of the battle.
Something like the Nebulon is going to be a support ship like the Medium Transport.
Moreover, it gives ships like the B-Wing the role they are supposed to have: capital ship busters.
11 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:The real trick to epic 2.0 will be the new factions.... the First Order has literally nothing even close to right scale. Resistance has few choices as well.
Prequels have some more options I think, though I’m drawing a blank on ones that would fit scale at the moment.
You're forgetting, there's a whole show coming out shortly that will change all of that.
double post
Edited by Bad Idea Comicstriple post
Edited by Bad Idea Comicsquadruple post
Edited by Bad Idea Comics2 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:You're forgetting, there's a whole show coming out shortly that will change all of that.
Maybe, maybe not.
Fighters and large base support stuff I can see.
But corvette sized ships seems against the FO philosophy. Even for the Empire, ffg had to invent a design for the game. And the FO is even more “bigger = better” than the Empire was.
Edited by ScummyRebel1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:Maybe, maybe not.
Fighters and large base support stuff I can see.
But corvette sized ships seems against the FO philosophy. Even for the Empire, ffg had to invent a design for the game. And the FO is even more “bigger = better” than the Empire was.
Awesome. They can go take a flying leap then, lol.
Really, you're thinking too "this is real" and not enough "this is marketing". There will be an appropriately sized ship because it will boost sales for the companies that can use that ship. The Raider was an FFG invention with the full backing of the Star Wars people. You think Dave Filoni's people aren't aware of that? Plus it helps with the video games that'll be coming out at some point as well (just as the Raider was featured in the last game).
3 hours ago, mcintma said:I feel like if they announce Epic 2.0 ,they will have to announce at least 1 new ship to give any 'buzz' at all to the announcement. To me, the Medical Frigate is by far the most recognizable+doable (given scale) ship remaining. That or the Hammerhead. This is of course notwithstanding Scum players clamoring for an equal footing in # ships (no argument there, just not sure what would sell mass-market).
From what I’ve read, the C-ROC sold poorly. I’m not sure there’s a truly iconic Scum Huge ship that people outside of old EU fans would buy. My solution would be to introduce the Nebulon-B with cards for Rebels, Imperials and Scum. All 3 factions used the ship in the EU. Spread the love across the 3 factions and increase sales.
Before anyone says it, the Star Jewel is out because they would’ve released that with Jabba if they were ever going to. Besides, it’s butt-ugly. The Wild Karrde looks like a Dustbuster. I’m not sure that would sell well either. So, a 3-faction Nebulon-B makes the most sense. An Arquitens would likely sell well but you’d need to balance all the factions again and I’m not sure they’re eager to take too many risks on massive models. Like Darth Meanie suggested, Kickstarter could be the way to go here.
Edited by weisguy11941 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:An official Nebulon-B for X-Wing would be like $300-400.
Why stop with the Neb-B?
41 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:An official Nebulon-B for X-Wing would be like $300-400.
Why stop with the Neb-B?
I am jumping in the discussion, sorry i didn't read all the posts.
My idea is : don't try too hard to fit ships of the wrong size. Make one!
Look, nebulon B is not a corvette, it is not a light and agile vessel, but what if good designer could create a cool moncala corvette with a great look and background.
The raider class corvette is the perfect example of a cool design that will enrich the universe, instead of changing canon to better fit a game. (IMO)
1 hour ago, player2422845 said:I am jumping in the discussion, sorry i didn't read all the posts.
My idea is : don't try too hard to fit ships of the wrong size. Make one!
Look, nebulon B is not a corvette, it is not a light and agile vessel, but what if good designer could create a cool moncala corvette with a great look and background.
The raider class corvette is the perfect example of a cool design that will enrich the universe, instead of changing canon to better fit a game. (IMO)
If FFG created a cool-looking Mon Calamari corvette, I’d buy it instantly. They’d have to invent one like they did the Raider, however, since the smallest Mon Calamari capital ship is still pretty large. I’m not a fan of most Mon Calamari ship designs but I love the design of the Raider and have faith in FFG’s design team.
My problem with this, though, is we need more variety in our Epic fleets. As it stands, Armada has squadrons, large ships, capital ships and, now, a Huge ship. That’s 4 levels of ship size. XWM currently only has 3 levels of ship size. Why can’t they do 4 as well? There seems to be a tremendous amount of resistance to a massive ship for XWM for some unknown reason. If people don’t want anything larger, I understand. Don’t buy anything larger, then. But, at the same time, don’t actively lobby against the interest of others. The “just play Armada” argument is about as valid as “why not just play X-wing” when using squadrons in Armada. I prefer to play a starfighter-focused game with huge capital ships rather than a capital ship-focused game with tiny starfighters. I just prefer the scale of XWM. It doesn’t have to be an either-or situation. FFG invalidated their own size and price arguments against anything larger for XWM Epic Play when they released a 30 inch, $200 model for Armada that plays on the same 6x3 mat that X-wing Epic plays on.
To me, an Epic fleet full of nothing bigger than corvettes is limiting. It would be nice to have a massive centerpiece for each Epic fleet to make them more believable. I’m not sure too many fleets exist with just starfighters, corvettes and support ships. Nebulon-Bs were used as convoy escorts and would be perfect as the XWM massive ship, in my opinion.
Edited by weisguy1192 hours ago, weisguy119 said:From what I’ve read, the C-ROC sold poorly. I’m not sure there’s a truly iconic Scum Huge ship that people outside of old EU fans would buy. My solution would be to introduce the Nebulon-B with cards for Rebels, Imperials and Scum. All 3 factions used the ship in the EU. Spread the love across the 3 factions and increase sales.
I wonder if poor sales is from the blue line fiasco. Or, it should have included Hondo's pirates are a true pirating vessel. Or that Jabba wasn't a good 100/6 card.
But you second notion is the best. Stop making Huge ships single faction. They are expensive to buy: make sure all (or at least more than one) factions can use them.
Raider: Imperial, but Rebel with the Corvus title.
CR-90: All OT factions.
GR-75: All factions. You can't tell me the Imperial don't use transports, and when @Marinealver takes a break from pushing the ISD concept, he has a GR-75 Scum conversion.
C-ROC: Scum and Rebels (the Rebels will use any ship they can get ahold of).
The Gozanti might be the only one that should stay Empire only.
Lastly, make them Epic Play Only content. Stop using them to push a power card people will use in tournaments or a small ship fix. Add upgrades for small/medium/large ships that are Epic Only (like Tarkin was) so that when people play Epic, it's a completely different world rather than 3x points + big ship.
1 hour ago, player2422845 said:My idea is : don't try too hard to fit ships of the wrong size. Make one!
Look, nebulon B is not a corvette, it is not a light and agile vessel, but what if good designer could create a cool moncala corvette with a great look and background.
The raider class corvette is the perfect example of a cool design that will enrich the universe, instead of changing canon to better fit a game. (IMO)
Well, I don't think the Nebulon is the wrong size, but I do like the idea of a baby Mon Cal ship.
Nevertheless, there are still plenty of ships that can fit the Epic bill:
Republic Corvette
Corellian Gunship
Imperial Customs Corvette
Naboo Cruiser
etc. etc.
And let's not forget: who says it has to move?? A space station would be awesome.
Edited by Darth Meanie
11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:A nd let's not forget: who says it has to move?? A space station would be awesome.
An official FFG XWM space station would indeed he awesome!
2 minutes ago, weisguy119 said:An official FFG XWM space station would indeed he awesome!
Just feel I need to add my voice to this: YESSS!
Also, slightly OT, but I'd love it if FFG would produce a 6' x 3' Star Destroyer playmat.
37 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:A space station would be awes ome
Yes yes yes!
3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:Maybe, maybe not.
Fighters and large base support stuff I can see.
But corvette sized ships seems against the FO philosophy. Even for the Empire, ffg had to invent a design for the game. And the FO is even more “bigger = better” than the Empire was.
actually they do have corvette sized ships.. they've just only appeared in the supplientary materials. much like how the Empire only had ISD's in the original trilogy, and their smaller support ships were only expanded on in the EU.
for example, the Enshado, a first order light cruiser only a little big bigger than the CR-90.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Enshado
or their use of the Tarkin's Carrion Spike stealth ship.. something that could easily be set up as a multifaction epic (Republic, empire, and/or first order) now that Clone Wars is coming.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Carrion_Spike
and if you go looking at what they've used in the comics and novels, you find some interesting gems:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:First_Order_starship_classes
like the Lancer Class Frigate (which marked its reintroduction to the canon).
Honestly, I think Epic is dead and gone for good.
At least as seperate entity. Higher point level ships will need more points for larger games.
1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:I wonder if poor sales is from the blue line fiasco. Or, it should have included Hondo's pirates are a true pirating vessel. Or that Jabba wasn't a good 100/6 card.
But you second notion is the best. Stop making Huge ships single faction. They are expensive to buy: make sure all (or at least more than one) factions can use them.
Raider: Imperial, but Rebel with the Corvus title.
CR-90: All OT factions.
GR-75: All factions. You can't tell me the Imperial don't use transports, and when @Marinealver takes a break from pushing the ISD concept, he has a GR-75 Scum conversion.
C-ROC: Scum and Rebels (the Rebels will use any ship they can get ahold of).
The Gozanti might be the only one that should stay Empire only.
Lastly, make them Epic Play Only content. Stop using them to push a power card people will use in tournaments or a small ship fix. Add upgrades for small/medium/large ships that are Epic Only (like Tarkin was) so that when people play Epic, it's a completely different world rather than 3x points + big ship.
Well, I don't think the Nebulon is the wrong size, but I do like the idea of a baby Mon Cal ship.
Nevertheless, there are still plenty of ships that can fit the Epic bill:
Republic Corvette
Corellian Gunship
Imperial Customs Corvette
Naboo Cruiser
etc. etc.
And let's not forget: who says it has to move?? A space station would be awesome.
meh...
I don't want the stupid GR75 for imps. Nucanon has showed us the Imperial transport, which is better, because triangles ❤️
Also, no CR90. We have an aesthetic people, we don't want your ugly blob shaped ships.
The old games used the same ships for factions, because technological limitation. We can do better now.
I need an Arquitens
11 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:I don't want the stupid GR75 for imps.
I need an Arquitens
Fine. Don't buy the GR-75 for your Imperial fleet. But if they make it available for more people by opening faction limits, they will sell more.
Because if they can't sell enough $80 transports, you are never going to see a $200+ Arquitens.
Edited by Darth Meanie55 minutes ago, mithril2098 said:or their use of the Tarkin's Carrion Spike stealth ship.. something that could easily be set up as a multifaction epic (Republic, empire, and/or first order) now that Clone Wars is coming.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Carrion_Spike
and if you go looking at what they've used in the comics and novels, you find some interesting gems:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:First_Order_starship_classes
like the Lancer Class Frigate (which marked its reintroduction to the canon).
I want a Lancer and the Carrion Spike. People need to get better taste so we can all have nice things such as these.
1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:Fine. Don't buy the GR-75 for your Imperial fleet. But if they make it available for more people by opening faction limits, they will sell more.
Because if they can't sell enough $80 transports, you are never going to see a $200+ Arquitens.
It's better to not have an arquitens, than to dilute the aesthetic with ships that blur the lines between the faction identity.
Your argument for imperial transports could very well be applied to almost every ship in the rebel fleet, as well as literally every ship in the Republic army.
And yeah... people will buy the 200$ arquitens anyway. Its a miniature star destroyer!
13 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:The nebulon B is dozens of times the mass of the Tantive 4. Its not just a bit out of scale, its a smaller capitol ship.
One of its several hanger bays is what you see Luke and Leia standing in at the end of Empire, and the rebels put 30 plus fighters in them sometimes. Its not gonna fit on the board even at 1/1000 scale
You literally could not be more misinformed about the Nebulon-B's capabilities. It CAN NOT fit 30 rebel fighters, and it DOES NOT have any kind of Hangar bay. It only had those in SOME depictions, and even those were very, very off kilter and scale. Please do not ever use Wookieepedia as a source for the capabilities of capital ships- it will be wrong eight times out of ten.
This is seriously what kind of discrepancy and lack of quality control created such utterly
ludicrous
statistics as, "Can hold 30+ fighters". Seriously, I hate this so much- this is nothing against you, I just utterly despise with all my heart how horribly, horrible mishandled things were. X-Wing Alliance got the scale correct, but look at the size of that hangar! Where's the room for internal components? Nowhere. The one the shuttle is landing at? Might as well be a rebel built capital ship, because NO Nebulon-B is THAT Frakking big. The Dark Forces one? Bigger, fatter, not SUUUUUUUUUUUPER far off but still frakking off.
Always use the
movies.
Do not ever use wook for this, even in the canon tab, where things are still being cited and carried over with reckless abandon.
1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:It's better to not have an arquitens, than to dilute the aesthetic with ships that blur the lines between the faction identity.
If this ^ leads to this
2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:Honestly, I think Epic is dead and gone for good.
Then the whole point is moot. Better to that have models that sell than get bent about aesthetics.
There will never never be dozens of huge ship releases. Each one needs to be as versatile as possible IMHO.
I just finally got excited about 2.0 thanks to prequel ships. Don't say stuff like that @That Blasted Samophlange . You're killing me, smalls.
7 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:The real trick to epic 2.0 will be the new factions.... the First Order has literally nothing even close to right scale. .
Neither did the Empire