7 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

An official Nebulon-B for X-Wing would be like $300-400.

I’d still buy it!

7 hours ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

You're forgetting, there's a whole show coming out shortly that will change all of that.

You mean the new series of Clone Wars?

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I don't think the Nebulon is the wrong size, but I do like the idea of a baby Mon Cal ship.

What about the MC30?

I wanna play Armada at 1:1 scale!

37 minutes ago, drail14me said:

I wanna play Armada at 1:1 scale!

#TheDream

You know, I'm not ACTUALLY an @ sshole like I am on the forums... but if I had a star destroyer, things would quickly change for sure. I would be the model imperial officer.

5 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Honestly, I think Epic is dead and gone for good.

At least as seperate entity. Higher point level ships will need more points for larger games.

Well, at worlds they said that Epic was not forgotten, so I hope you’re incorrect in that regard.

I do think it’ll be a long time before we see more of it though.

5 hours ago, mithril2098 said:

actually they do have corvette sized ships.. they've just only appeared in the supplientary materials. much like how the Empire only had ISD's in the original trilogy, and their smaller support ships were only expanded on in the EU.

*snipped for brevity*

I would be good with FO lancers! Actually, that light cruiser looks good too, albeit rather large due it’s size next to that gr75.

(and wow is Disney cranking out the material... had no clue just how much was being produced)

7 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You literally could not be more misinformed about the Nebulon-B's capabilities. It CAN NOT fit 30 rebel fighters, and  it DOES NOT have any kind of Hangar bay. It only had those in SOME depictions, and even those were very, very off kilter and scale. Please do not ever use Wookieepedia as a source for the capabilities of capital ships- it will be wrong eight times out of t  en. 



This is seriously what kind of discrepancy and lack of quality control created such utterly ludicrous statistics as, "Can hold 30+ fighters". Seriously, I hate this so much- this is nothing against you, I just utterly despise with all my heart how horribly, horrible mishandled things were. X-Wing Alliance got the scale correct, but look at the size of that hangar! Where's the room for internal components? Nowhere. The one the shuttle is landing at? Might as well be a rebel built capital ship, because NO Nebulon-B is THAT Frakking big. The Dark Forces one? Bigger, fatter, not SUUUUUUUUUUUPER far off but still frakking off.

Always use the movies. Do not ever use wook for this, even in the canon tab, where things are still being cited and carried over with reckless abandon.

i am using the films dude. according to the film model, the in film shots, everything.... the nebulon B has at least 20 full decks. just look at the windows on the side and do the math, its enormous. also the pictures you posted verify this very point, even if the scales are off.

11 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I wonder if poor sales is from the blue line fiasco. Or, it should have included Hondo's pirates are a true pirating vessel. Or that Jabba wasn't a good 100/6 card.

But you second notion is the best. Stop making Huge ships single faction. They are expensive to buy: make sure all (or at least more than one) factions can use them.

Raider: Imperial, but Rebel with the Corvus title.

CR-90: All OT factions.

GR-75: All factions. You can't tell me the Imperial don't use transports, and when @Marinealver takes a break from pushing the ISD concept, he has a GR-75 Scum conversion.

C-ROC: Scum and Rebels (the Rebels will use any ship they can get ahold of).

The Gozanti might be the only one that should stay Empire only.

Lastly, make them Epic Play Only content. Stop using them to push a power card people will use in tournaments or a small ship fix. Add upgrades for small/medium/large ships that are Epic Only (like Tarkin was) so that when people play Epic, it's a completely different world rather than 3x points + big ship.

Well, I don't think the Nebulon is the wrong size, but I do like the idea of a baby Mon Cal ship.

Nevertheless, there are still plenty of ships that can fit the Epic bill:

• Republic Corvette
• Corellian Gunship
• Imperial Customs Corvette
• Naboo Cruiser
• etc. etc.
• And let's not forget: who says it has to move?? A space station would be awesome.

Thanks for the Shout out. As for the GR-75 yes I do believe that Tories will use them as well as any other commercial barge but I don't believe the Imperial Navy will consider an unarmed transport to be mission capable of ferrying military supplies to galactic hot spots and would rather used the lightly armed (but armed none the less) Gozanti. Even the C-Roc with its crude external compartments might make for a more suitable military convoy vessel for the Imperial Navy.

However I am certain it is well within the jurisdiction for an I.S.B. agent to commandeer any loyalist vessel for Official Imperial Business and compensate the Captain/owner for their services. Now that Clone Wars is coming to X-wing the Republic which is not as militarized as the Empire may have a need for transports such as the GR-75 to be used for Military supplies.

As for the Rebel Transport I think it can be used for other ships as well. The GR-45 comes to mind as both Scum and Rebel (and maybe even C.I.S.) Same model diffrent card/dial and maybe even damage deck.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/GR-45_medium_transport

Also we need to expand the movement set of huge ships. Here is a list of possible additions.

5 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

i am using the films dude. according to the film model, the in film shots, everything.... the nebulon B has at least 20 full decks. just look at the windows on the side and do the math, its enormous. also the pictures you posted verify this very point, even if the scales are off.

oh my actual god dude

EDIT: Okay, let's go for a walk through this one.

You have clearly never designed a starship in any practical manner, so you could not have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I don't blame you for this or hold this against you, but you need to stop acting like you do.

I have used the official scales to illustrate my point in a fairly large image.



This is 300m of pure Nebulon-B bliss. Now, I want to really highlight something here. Yes, they are in the S-Foils open position, but honest to god, that does not matter. Even if you closed them, you are only reducing the volume by a small amount.

The Nebulon-B, if it even remotely had the volume for such a hangar in the fore section- because clearly, the rear is dedicated to reactor space, engine and fuel space. The fore and ventral sections are dedicated to weaponry, supplies, and personnel. It is not a vessel that wastes any spare mass or volume, and its design is extremely, extremely skeletal. Perhaps even describable as cheap. It is, after all, even canonically, an Imperial design. Which, by the way, its docking tubes are now congruent with Imperial fighter escort/holding doctrine when we consider the Gozanti class cruiser's tubes that can carry TIE Fighters externally.

So, I ask you this. Where the **** do all thirty of those X-Wings go? Oh, what, not X-Wings? That doesn't matter dude. Even if it's Z-95s, even if it's A-Wing, it can't hold thirty of those either, because you need to consider something very important.

How are you routing the power, the water, the fuel, the everything, throughout the ship? I guarantee you that the connection from the docking fore to aft is a hallway- probably a lift. We're not, NOT going to use The Force unleashed II as an example, because that Nebulon-B - then the Alliance's flagship, somehow called itself a Nebulon-B despite having a star destroyer cracking weapon mounted sideways on it (though NOT externally apparent at all?) and holding hangars large enough for lifts and the Slave I!

No other capital ship has been done such a dirty, nasty disservice to its scale as the Nebulon-B Escort Frigate!

So you have armor, decks, routing, cables and fuel lines, you have living quarters, space for turbolifts. But you know what you don't have any of?

You do not have space for even a single Starfighter to be docked internally aboard this starship.

So, how do we solve this problem? Where did this problem even come from? On the latter, no frakking idea. But on the former... Well there sure is a lot of unused space, and a lot of places to mount and weld stuff on, huh?


And this takes into account that the X-Wings need a place to be refueled, restocked, repaired, protected, and so on. Yes, this is still an extremely tight fit! But what, you think Kuati engineering can't make stuff work in small spaces? They DO make spaces for TIE Fighters, after all... But uh, not X-Wings. So even with a container that size they'd still have to retrofit it heavily to work with X-Wings. What if it's a custom Rebel job? Yeah, okay, yeah they got the resources to do that, they actually do, based off what we see in Rebels. But not a whole lot, no sir.

And then you gotta' ask... Why do this in the first place? Why carry X-Wings around in an escort frigate? Why even bother? Then, what if a capital ship comes by? You think they won't aim straight for the hangar? Of course they will.

One way or another, trying to fit 30 X-Wings- really any type of fighter (suppose you could fit a squadron of extremely expensive ETA-2s into it..? Maybe?) into an Escort Frigate is the single most foolhardy thing anybody could do.

You know what makes it all worse?

The Mon Calamari Cruisers existed in the timeframe these games and books were all frakking made. So if they had just used the proper ships, we would NOT be talking about this today... Because nothing seen here even comes close to demonstrating, even canonically, that the Nebulon-B could, would, or should, ever carry a squadron of starfighters, short or long range.

And that's all I gotta' say about it, every base has been covered.

3 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Stuff

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However SHAME for using the grossly inaccurate EGVV blueprints. Ew! Yuck! Take them away!

The old SW Technical Journal blueprints are a bit better proportioned.

I need to see if I can dig up screens of my old 3D model experiments. It's literally been DECADES since I did it as part of the XWA Upgrade project.

On 8/4/2018 at 2:57 AM, Vontoothskie said:

The nebulon B is dozens of times the mass of the Tantive 4. Its not just a bit out of scale, its a smaller capitol ship.

One of its several hanger bays is what you see Luke and Leia standing in at the end of Empire, and the rebels put 30 plus fighters in them sometimes. Its not gonna fit on the board even at 1/1000 scale

You somehow have the Nebulon B mixed up with another ship. It has only one small hanger bay that can hold a couple fighters. I'm trying to remember if it was 2, 4, or 6 tie fighters that could launch from a Nebulon B in the original X-Wing PC game...but it was not many.

13 minutes ago, HawkZ71 said:

You somehow have the Nebulon B mixed up with another ship. It has only one small hanger bay that can hold a couple fighters. I'm trying to remember if it was 2, 4, or 6 tie fighters that could launch from a Nebulon B in the original X-Wing PC game...but it was not many.

As Rebels shows (and is cannon) carrying and launching fighters in combat doesn't require full facilities. They repeatedly have the fighters just attached via docking ports on the VCX and CR90. It's actually quite possible the Neb-B does something similar with the long and mostly unused spine while it's relatively small hangar used only as a dry dock for the fighters doing stuff that can't be done while they're attached to the spine.

The EU has always been super Nebulous (badumtish) on how it carries fighters, but most sources agree that it has a capability for it and that's it's more than just 5-6.

1 hour ago, Ambaryerno said:

I agree with you wholeheartedly. However SHAME for using the grossly inaccurate EGVV blueprints. Ew! Yuck! Take them away!

The old SW Technical Journal blueprints are a bit better proportioned.

I need to see if I can dig up screens of my old 3D model experiments. It's literally been DECADES since I did it as part of the XWA Upgrade project.

Proportionally correct or incorrect as they may be, the scale don't lie. Ain't no space for 30 fighters.

21 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

As Rebels shows (and is cannon) carrying and launching fighters in combat doesn't require full facilities. They repeatedly have the fighters just attached via docking ports on the VCX and CR90. It's actually quite possible the Neb-B does something similar with the long and mostly unused spine while it's relatively small hangar used only as a dry dock for the fighters doing stuff that can't be done while they're attached to the spine.

The EU has always been super Nebulous (badumtish) on how it carries fighters, but most sources agree that it has a capability for it and that's it's more than just 5-6.

LAUNCHING fighters doesn't. Maintaining and servicing them sure as **** does.

And if they're throwing full-scale fighters on a CR90 I'm calling bull on the show. You're not even fitting a TIE fighter on a 150-meter Corvette, much less anything else (the Night Caller in the old EU was bad enough). I don't care if it's canon, at some point you have to stop and say, "Hey now wait a second."

Also to reiterate: THERE IS NO HANGAR on a Nebulon-B. That port is a large observation window, as VERY clearly shown in ESB (when the scene cuts to the external view they show Luke, Leia, and the droids standing in it). ANY source that puts fighters on a Nebulon frigate is relying on VERY BAD RESEARCH.

1 minute ago, Ambaryerno said:

LAUNCHING fighters doesn't. Maintaining and servicing them sure as **** does.

And if they're throwing full-scale fighters on a CR90 I'm calling bull on the show. You're not even fitting a TIE fighter on a 150-meter Corvette, much less anything else (the Night Caller in the old EU was bad enough).

Also to reiterate: THERE IS NO HANGAR on a Nebulon-B. That port is a large observation window, as VERY clearly shown in ESB (when the scene cuts to the external view they show Luke, Leia, and the droids standing in it). ANY source that puts fighters on a Nebulon frigate is relying on VERY BAD RESEARCH.

Bingo, what this guy said.

Fighters gotta' be maintained, guys.

3 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Bingo, what this guy said.

Fighters gotta' be maintained, guys.

Exactly. THIS is why aircraft carriers are as big as they are. It's not the flight deck. The space required JUST to house and maintain the air wing occupies an ENORMOUS amount of the ship's internal volume.

Consider this:

The Amphibious Assault Ship USS Wasp has a length of 250m. That's about 50m shorter than a Nebulon-B. She has an air wing of about 24 helicopters and 6 AV-8B or F-35 aircraft (total of 30 aircraft). ALMOST THE ENTIRE SHIP is given over to storage, maintenance, handling, and launch of those aircraft (and that's before you get into the additional space for maintaining landing craft below the hangar deck).

Now keep in mind that the usable length and volume of the Nebulon frigate is even SMALLER than this, since nearly half her length is made up of the spine between the forward and engine modules. You're doing good to have about 100-120m in the forward hull.

The Nucanon is making the same **** mistakes as the old EU; absolutely no one is considering not only the SIZE of the ships they're trying to cram all these fighters in, but the sheer logistics of it.

12 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

LAUNCHING fighters doesn't. Maintaining and servicing them sure as **** does.

And if they're throwing full-scale fighters on a CR90 I'm calling bull on the show. You're not even fitting a TIE fighter on a 150-meter Corvette, much less anything else (the Night Caller in the old EU was bad enough). I don't care if it's canon, at some point you have to stop and say, "Hey now wait a second."

Also to reiterate: THERE IS NO HANGAR on a Nebulon-B. That port is a large observation window, as VERY clearly shown in ESB (when the scene cuts to the external view they show Luke, Leia, and the droids standing in it). ANY source that puts fighters on a Nebulon frigate is relying on VERY BAD RESEARCH.

The ESB version is a medial frigate, so there are obviously differences in configurations. I 100% acknowledge that fighters need to be maintained, I even said so that it wouldn't need a full sized hangar, just a facility for any thing that can't be done when they're connected to the spine. You could just rotate fighters in, perform and necessary maintenance and re-dock on the spine until needed. You're acting like every ship has to have all the facilities to maintain all fighters simultaneously when all of the real world analogs for carriers or pocket carriers don't do this. A modern US military carrier cannot maintain all 100+ aircraft simultaneously. It does rotations and aircraft that are not being being maintained are stored (sometimes below or above deck depending on needs).

10 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

i am using the films dude. according to the film model, the in film shots, everything.... the nebulon B has at least 20 full decks. just look at the windows on the side and do the math, its enormous. also the pictures you posted verify this very point, even if the scales are off.

You're clearly not using the films as a reference, because we see Luke, Leia, R2 and C3P0 stood at a window which you claim is "one of many hangar bays". We also see the Falcon docked externally with the Frigate (presumably because it's FAR too big to fit in your supposed "hangar bay"), which gives us the scale of the ship.

The Nebulon B is 300 metres long. The CR-90 is approx 150 metres long. The Falcon is approx 30 metres long. X-Wings are 10 metres long. Do the math, it's really not that difficult.

You're either missing or ignoring my point. The Nebulon frigate DOES NOT HAVE THE SPACE for those facilities. I've TRIED it. You'd have to gut nearly the entire forward module to have the necessary space JUST for the hangar deck, and that doesn't even account for all the other things you'd need (fuel and munitions bunkers for the fighters, stores for spare parts, heavy equipment, workshops, etc).

Just now, Ambaryerno said:

You're either missing or ignoring my point. The Nebulon frigate DOES NOT HAVE THE SPACE for those facilities. I've TRIED it. You'd have to gut nearly the entire forward module to have the necessary space JUST for the hangar deck, and that doesn't even account for all the other things you'd need (fuel and munitions bunkers for the fighters, stores for spare parts, heavy equipment, workshops, etc).

I mean, you're not making a point, you're just yelling man.

3 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

The Falcon is approx 30 metres long. X-Wings are 10 metres long.

The Falcon is about 36-37m (30m is based on the old erroneous WEG data) and X-wings are 12.5m. but that's just splitting hairs.

Nebulon-B Frigate

It's a frigate. There's the first clue that it's not a true carrier. I can see a half dozen starfighters, at most, and that's if they're docking with the spar.

20 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

You literally could not be more misinformed about the Nebulon-B's capabilities. It CAN NOT fit 30 rebel fighters, and it DOES NOT have any kind of Hangar bay. It only had those in SOME depictions, and even those were very, very off kilter and scale. Please do not ever use Wookieepedia as a source for the capabilities of capital ships- it will be wrong eight times out of ten.



This is seriously what kind of discrepancy and lack of quality control created such utterly ludicrous statistics as, "Can hold 30+ fighters". Seriously, I hate this so much- this is nothing against you, I just utterly despise with all my heart how horribly, horrible mishandled things were. X-Wing Alliance got the scale correct, but look at the size of that hangar! Where's the room for internal components? Nowhere. The one the shuttle is landing at? Might as well be a rebel built capital ship, because NO Nebulon-B is THAT Frakking big. The Dark Forces one? Bigger, fatter, not SUUUUUUUUUUUPER far off but still frakking off.

Always use the movies. Do not ever use wook for this, even in the canon tab, where things are still being cited and carried over with reckless abandon.

The Rebels converted a lot of Neb B's to have a hanger. From what I remember they lost a lot of armament and protection but it was doable.

16 hours ago, drail14me said:

I wanna play Armada at 1:1 scale!

Join the Navy.

38 minutes ago, weisguy119 said:

Nebulon-B Frigate

It's a frigate. There's the first clue that it's not a true carrier. I can see a half dozen starfighters, at most, and that's if they're docking with the spar.

Honestly, I highly doubt those are even docking ports on the spar in the first place. If you actually look at how the Falcon is attached, it's NOT through any of the known docking ports or hatches, which are all on the transverse corridors. The connection is somewhere in the middle of the big exhaust vents on the engine array.

If you look at this image:

You can see the top hatch at the far end of the port docking arm. The Falcon appears to be connected to the frigate at a point between the two central exhaust vents, for which there is NO evidence of an access hatch. Especially because it would mean you'd be boarding the Falcon right in the middle of the engine!