Avi_dreader said:

More probably, the Scenario will be done with me ::laughter:: anyway, in case you can, even in the coming days, drop me the pictures or the eon by e-mail, I really like those Heralds and I will play often with them :-)

Julia said:

Ha! You wish! ;'D

All masks are placed on Faceless One in this game (it is instructing you to "do otherwise"), the only way masks do not place on Faceless One is if other heralds require masks to be placed on them instead.

Fetch Me My Faces will take random masks from Faceless One, not from the cup. You will still need to worry about it becaaaaause, if you read The Maskless very carefully ;') you'll notice that she will toss masks directly onto investigators. Oh, wait, I see what you're saying, sorry, long letter, and I'm replying in a rush, no, if all masks are in play, you won't have to worry about this ability (you'll just have to worry about all the masks being in play, and then the other monsters coming into town as well).

Yes, you can return spawn Masks that aren't crescents to Faceless One by closing gates, buuut, they'll be back, pretty quickly. Both heralds make them spawn though, so there's no way of collecting them as trophies (and of course, as spawn, they don't count against the monster limit).

re: Maskless, if she is being played without other Nyarlathotep heralds, the masks will be in the cup, which is sort of a strange way of playing with spawn monsters, but, that's how it goes (perhaps I should have clarified it better on her card). It's not redundant because normally spawn monsters are not to be placed in the cup. Using her alone, they are, and the problem arises, what happens if a spawn monster ends up going to the outskirts when drawn blindly (the answer is, it typically goes straight to an investigator in Arkham). Anyway, that aspect of her isn't really relevant for this scenario.

I'll change the wording on the cultists and the copies (bear in mind, that unlike the heralds, I don't spend hours agonizing over exact phrasing for the scenarios). I think I might've put in the wording on the cultists to prevent any confusion that causes people to place cultist/god on the herald sheets.

Let's see if this one causes your second defeat ;'D (even if it does, I'd imagine you'll have much more fun playing it than scenario 2). Here is the hellish challenge you've been waiting for (hey, look at the bright side, no mandatory characters besides crippled Mandy this scenario).

Wailing Writhers are good for you, they build character! (And then eat it).

Julia said:

I'll probably upload higher quality copies this weekend (or possibly sooner). I'll email you the story text for the aftermath of this scenario when you beat it :'D

Oh... Another reason why The Faceless is worded that way (re:cultists to the cup), is that it can be played without Nyarlathotep (in which case the Cultists wouldn't be endless).

Re: returning to the sheet. I know they will be back, but at least you can catch a moment of respite. And pospone normal monsters to arrive (which will cause Arkham's locations and streets a bit crowded ::laughter:

Re: Maskless. My question was a little different: a Spawn monster never goes to the Outskirts. The Herald refers to Masks that can be put in the Outskirts. I don't see how a Spawn monsters can be put in the Outskirts, so I don't understand why you say this. The question is: am I missing something? Some side rule allowing a Mask to be placed in Outskirts? Or what?

Re: defeat. Let's see how it goes. There is a weak spot that should allow me - let's say, uhm - three seals? with some luck with the starting equipment (a Silver Key, or something boosting Evade checks, or the acceptance of Mandy to become a martyr). And maybe some more if I can use Darrell in a certain way (I need him to dig out gates). And I would love to have a Naacal Key now (yeah, it could sound crazy, but it's not). Anyway, regardless of the result of the game I'm very happy with this: finally, I can confront Nyarlathotep as a real Ancient One, with legions of strong minions preparing the way for him. It's scaring. And adrenalyzing :-)

Avi_dreader said:

Ok, then! It's better if you start preparing the e-mail now ::wink:: Just in case ::laughter::

Avi_dreader said:

That's a good point. Obviously. Sorry, I was completely focused on the Scenario, didn't think of Faceless plus another AO!

Wailing writhers guarding gates are physical? I mean, if I close / seal a Leng gate, theoretically speaking they are all nremoved from *all* gates on Arkham during that round, right? One round free, and then they're back

Second question: what's your position on entering gates with a ride from Bill Washington? Monsters first or not?

Julia said:

Ah ah ! Was a good question after thoughts

Hugues said:

::laughter:: I've always played monster first, as you know, and I still believe it's the right way. But since it's not official, and there is a bloody Wailing Writher on every dam(n) gate, I'm trying to understand whether I can exploit some Train station encounters or not ::laughter::

Julia said:

re: maskless, masks can be in the cup with her but they'll still be considered spawn monsters (they'll be placed in the outskirts by blind drawing).

re: Nyarlathotep. All those weak fights you had against him? Those were just feints. Mere masks. Now you see his true power :'D

Oh, did you notice that certain weak spot ;'D Heh heh heh... Good. You'll need it.

Ah, I see what you're getting at, getting sucked into gates without having to confront the Withers. That didn't occur to me, interesting idea :') No... You avoid monsters if you have an encounter that moves you... Sneaky Devil! ;') Honestly, hrm... I'm not sure if I should plug that hole... I mean, good eye, but... You'd be making the scenario easier than intended. Maybe. Then again, movement encounters aren't *that* common, so, I'll leave it as it is and if you're lucky enough to get one, well, :'r

As for the Writhers being removed by closing a gate :'P you wish. Clarifying that now ;')

Gone for the day. Good luck.

Thanks for clarfying. Fingers crossed. Some hours and you'll have the report posted on-line!

SCENARIO 16 - KAMIKAZE CABARET

All boards in play

Investigators: Luke, Darrell, Ursula, Mandy, Minh, Lily

Not an easy task this time: stopping all hordes of servant of Nyarlathotep working together to make the Crawling Chaos reign souvrain over Earth in the most difficult Arkham game I played so far. Only two strategies came to my mind: doing all the best to enter gates unguarded by the Wailing Writhers, and working on expansion boards, where the Faceless One would not place Masks. Thus, I was in desperate need of creating gates by my own during encounters (since monsters appears after the gate sucks in the investigator) or staying in high freq locations waiting for a pietous Mythos able to draw my party into the OWs. And be quick. if the game had lasted too much, I'd have lost for sure.

Initial set-up was good, even if not *great*. Minh carried over from the previous Scenario the Eye of Light and Darkness, and Darrell decided to draw and Exhibit Item instead of a Unique, and got a Parchment of the Elder Sign ("business is good" ::laughter:. Ursula started at Independence square, hoping in a gate opening there.
Mythos Zero: a gate opened at Devil Reef, spawning a Mi-go. Not a good start.

1st turn: Luke woke up in the Dreamlands. His first OW encounter granted him to meet King Kuranes and gain 2 clue tokens. Darrell went to Falcon Point (the maximum distance he could go so far, since I still don't know whether you have to spend one movement point or not to move from Falcon Point to Devil Reef. I play that yes, but I don't know for sure), drew 2 encounters. One of them was a couple of fishermen willing to carry him to any aquatic location, and Devil Reef was such a beautiful location for a short boat trip. Darrell dived into a gate (I obviously chose the option allowing me not to fight monsters when moved by encounters), directly to Leng. Ursula went to the Unnamable, and guess what? A wonderful gate to the Underworld opened, spawning a Colour Out of Space. Mandy went to the Witch House, hoping in a gate but gaining a couple of clues. Minh cashed 4 clues from the King in Yellow and went to the Woods, hoping in another gate encounter as well. Sadly, she found only a small puppy named Duke who refused to join her.
Mythos One: a gate to the Unknown Kadath opened at Marsh Refinery, releasing a Formless Spawn. Still no Masks in play, apart from the God of the Bloody Tongue guarding the Asylum.

2nd turn: Darrell moved to the second area of Leng, and so did Luke, gaining the 4th clue. Still not enough for sealing. The encounter offered him a spear of light to ride to Arkham, but fortunately he missed the roll. Ursula was still in the first area of the Underworld, but she encountered no harm even this time. Minh went to the station, hoping in a Bill Washington encounter. And she found him! Sitting on some luggage and playing the guitar, giving her some Sanity and Stamina back, but not taking her to the Kadath gate. Lazy man! You're not payed to play your guitar! Mandy and Lily went gathering some spare clues.
Mythos two: gate burst at Marsh Refinery. Only one gate open in Arkham, 2 in Innsmouth. 2 monsters for Marsh refinery (Moon beast and... a Warlock! Luke started grinning his teeth), one for Devil Reef (a Dark Young) and the first Mask for the Arkham main board, the Shadowy Figure. Which moved. And moved. Chomp, chomp, two clues removed. The Mythos card was "Someone's watching over you", thus the first player able to seal a gate would have been blessed.

3rd turn: Ursula moved to the secon area of the Underworld, Minh went to Wizard Hill and met professor Rice. A delightful meating. She decided for a +1 doom token and some more clues appearing on the board. Luke returned to Marsh refinery, cherry-picked the Warlock and killed him spending one of his 4 clues. +2 clues gained, enough for the first seal (and a blessing). This made the God of the Bloody Tongue be removed from the board (for now, at least. Darrell closed the gate and sealed it via Parchment of the Elder sign. Mandy and Lily kept on gathering clues from the main board.
Mythos: a gate to the Abyss opened at Wizard's Hill, and Minh was sucked into the gate, with 9 clues and an Ally.

4th turn: the blessed Luke evaded easily the Formless spawn and the Moon Beast and entered the Church green streets to kill the Leng Spider who was hiding there. The three clues at the Esoteric Order of Dagon were too inviting for him to play differently. Darrell went to Y'hanthlei to collect four clues (but he didn't fail his PS simply because he had to spend his starting clue to escape the Dark Young). Ursula returned from the Underworld with seven clues (two of them were gained through OW encounters). She had to spend two of them, but was able to put the third seal on the board. Minh survived her first OW encounter, while the other two gals were collecting other clues in Arkham.
Mythos: a gate bounced on the seal in Devil Reef. Another clue appeared at the Esoteric Order of Dagon.

5th turn: Luke, after losing his Blessing during Upkeep, went to gather clues at Dagon and finished the encounter Cursed (a bad series, indeed). Darrell had other two encounters at Y'hantlei, and one of them allowed him to move to the Esoteric Order of Dagon. Lily went to the Unnamable to kill the Colour out of Space and free Ursula, who went to Hibbs for a double clue. Mandy was still searching for something intelligent to do, but the only thing was gathering clues, so she kept on collecting them frantically. Minh survived the second OW encounter
Mythos: strange sightings. Only one gate was open, in Dunwich. Four monsters arrived there.

6th turn: Minh returned from the Abyss, with something like 11 clue tokens. Only one gate was open at that time in Arkham, and if she closed that one, we'd have the four trophies required for winning. Five dice to roll, 1 success.

Checkmate.

Victory by closing gates in 6 Mythos, while Nyarlathotep was still at 4 doomers

Julia, thanks for sharing those ideas. Before these scenarios, I had never really considered the concept of a "rumor shield". It's not really the Undead monsters that I minded so much as all monsters becoming Endless. But whether or not monsters are available as trophies is probably one of your lesser worries in this scenario, so you're right about that.. There were some moments when I considered just quitting on Scenario 2, but there is something about the challenge factor that doesn't let me.

As for handling the servants, when one would be defeated I would place him at the bottom of the stack on Glaaki's sheet. So then they would just recycle through in order.. Obviously you must just be shuffling them when one returns to the sheet. That would make more sense, and take away the "predictability factor" which is probably the appropriate way to handle it. I'm not aware of an "official" way of handling that, but maybe there is one....? Next time, I'll just shuffle them whenever one returns to the sheet.

Lastly, what gave you the idea that I am a game designer? (Maybe I hit the wrong button when setting up my FFG forums profile.. Or maybe you're thinking of somebody else). I'm not. Although it's an interesting thought. I have the greatest appreciation for those who are, as the world would be a greatly diminished place without them.

You won by *closing* On the sixth turn.... WHAT?! :'/ ;.( Well... You'll find the hard mode version of this scenario *considerably* more challenging (when the league is done and I post more difficult modes of some of the scenarios). !!!!!!!!!! ... ;.(

Schmiegel said:

Glaaki says, "place a random Servant of Glaaki." Gtg.

Schmiegel, I'm glad if I've been of some help :-) Yeah, sometimes rumors can protect you from other rumors, and sometimes you can fail them without being damaged too much for this. I'm glad you don't want to quit Scenario 2. It's like a rite of passage. If you beat it, you can beat all the others. It's a very tough one because of the hyper-penalizing start with the three Servant (something I really don't like, but hey, sometimes life is unfair), but if you focus on them and remove them from the board in first couple of rounds, then you should have a good respite.

As for the Servants arriving, as Avi said, Glaaki instructs you to draw a random one. So no need for cycling them (otherwise the game would be very, very, very hard), fortunately. Get rid of them quickly, and your chances will boost. Focus Jacqueline's ability to prevent the terror raising and the gate bursts and nothing else and you should be able to control the game (this is what this League teaches every player most: how to control the board, and the game, and the doom track)

As for the game designer thing... under your avatar, there is the symbol of a pen. If you point it out with the mouse, you'll notice the wording "game designer". Sorry for my asking anyway!

Avi_dreader said:

Avi, winning by closing on the sixth turn does not imply the Scenario was easy. If I had had gates popping out on the Arkham main board, it would have been a complete different story. I've been good at thinking on how to play the Scenario without being damaged too much, gathering tons of clues very quickly just to have some to spend on skill checks, and I've been good at playing some situations, but I've also been lucky (the Wizard's hill gate under Minh's feet). I decided to go for a closing victory when I finally got the power of Luke. You start with a man able to close a gate that has not appeared yet. I thought I needed four gates to win, thus three investigators needed to enter gates in Arkham as soon as possible, even without clues. My plan was having four gates open by the end of Mythos 1, and then hoping in a couple of monster surges or intermission or double doomers cards to respite the time needed for closing all gates. That is why I started going in high frequency locations. I wanted to force the gates to work in my favour, quickening the pace of the doom track but keeping the Masks number low, at least in the very first turns.

So, no need of a hard mode. It was already *really* hard. I've just been good at reading / understansing the scenario, and a little lucky on some occasions :-)

Julia said:

But there will be a hard mode :'P you will be stuck with Mandy, Amanda, Mary, and Monterey, no investigators start with clues (not joking), and wailing writhers need to be evaded the turn you exit other worlds as well. ;') not being punitive, that was actually the plan for the hard mode earlier.

;') See... I do make these things easier than I could. And you say I am merciless ;'D

Alright, it's past my bedtime. G'night. Ttys.

Avi_dreader said:

If you really want a hard mode, it's enough saying that Masks appear on all Arkham, not just on non-espansion boards, and they appear even during phases different from the Mythos phase. This will have screwed everything much more, considering that in the whole game I had only two Masks on the board (the start of the game Asylumed God of the Bloody Tongue and later the Shadowy Figure), but I finished with ten monster trophies.

The mode you suggested is not a hard mode, is a masochistic mode. Not for the zero starting clues, but for the party and especially for the double Wailing Writhers. There is no fun in this (and I'm not referring to the fact the odds of victory are ridicolously low, I'm referring to the "being crippled to death regardless of your strategy" implicit clause), so I won't have any interest in playing it (no offense, Avi). Unless you play it first, and win (not on the 100th try, obviously) because there is a strategy you can exploit (which is not "you have a die for Sneaking in the gate. If you're blessed, and Mandy accepts her perma Sanity damage, then you have the 75% of scoring one success whenever you enter or exit a gate").

And let me stress once again that a League should provide challenging tests for the teams involved, and not be a "how to defeat Julia" thing ::laughter::

The cool thing of this Scenario was that you had a chance, by studying everything carefully, to find a weaker spot allowing you a chance of victory. And this was challenging enough to accept this kind of game. You left uncovered all expansion boards from and let me a chance to sneak into the gates without encountering the Writhers, and I was good at taking that chance. You should be happy for someone else's ability to read your schemes, and you should be proud for your teachings on how to play good Arkham. After all, a couple of pages ago, in this very same thread, you said (to Schmiegel): "you need to know how to push the game". I'd say I got the concept :-)

So, a slice of cake and a hot chocolate cup and all together cheering for victory!

Julia said:

Very well then, I suppose I will have to demonstrate to you that the "masochistic" mode is possible first :') but I assure you, it is (I'll probably do it with a 7 investigator team), though it will be difficult, it will require good resource allocation (and an understanding of which sacrifices are necessary to gain more necessary resources). Just remember, given the Elder Parchments, you essentially have 15 extra clues, and a 15 doom track, that's not exactly an impossible situation ;') Plus you've got Minh, 4, and Darrell, aka, Mr. Money. I'd think Lily might also be essential for what I have in mind :') You know what, I'd probably be able to do it with six ;') but I really want those Minh clues.

I suspect I know why you're viewing this as an impossible situation (even though it's not), but I don't want to say why, because, well, spoilers :') if you ask, I'll tell you though.

I'm slightly confused about one thing though, you did have Writhers on expansion gates too, right? Because they were supposed to be on all gates.

Anyway, the way the scenario was designed (and the way the hard mode will definitely require), strategies of the sort encouraged by earlier scenarios will be out of the question. To win fairly consistently would require a radically different way of viewing the game structure (based on the irregularity of the circumstances, the available investigators, the clue constraints, the Writher infestation, and the mask invasion). This scenario was supposed to be an exciting puzzle... But you shot it with a gun instead ;') Very Indiana Jones of you, but still quite sad from my point of view. Nevertheless, I'm almost certain that it can be done fairly consistently. I'm tempted to tell you why, but... No :') Oh, and, ironically, Amanda would probably be your *best* character in this version of the game :') I won't say any more than that, but... :') Between her and Lily and Mandy, you should be able to deal with the Writhers. Actually, now that I think about it, Minh would be a major asset in this scenario, so, maybe I'd go for 7 after all, despite having more monster flooding issues as a result. I think she'd help make them easier to deal with.

Avi_dreader said:

Masochistic mode requires you to start in the condition I was. No Parchments, unless you draw one instead of a Unique Item in the only swapping allowed by the League rules. Besides, if you go with seven investigators, you'll have two Masks spawned per round. Good luck with that ::laughter::

As for the strategy, this is the part I care about the most. If there is something I'm not able to see, well, I'd like to learn. So please, yes, if you don't mind the debate, explain me your strategy. If not here for spoilers, via e-mail, it's the same!

As for the Writhers observation, yeah, I know they were even on expansion board portals, but if you look at my report, I entered the Devil Reef gate via en encounter, Luke arrived at Marsh Refinery from the Dreamlands (but without entering it), Minh was sucked into a portal during the Mythos Phase and Ursula as result of an Encounter. I never entered any gate in the normal way (i.e. moving to a gate, fightning monsters and then in the coming AE Phase entering the gate)

Avi_dreader said:

That's an interesting point of view. Reflecting how different our gaming styles are. You contruct through time, I demolish before it's too late. And what if with Amanda you have bad luck?

Please, don't misunderstand me, I know she draws 3 and chooses 1 to keep, and it's rather cool, but you could have a real bad luck (not getting Disguise, or Ancient Language or some similar skills). The way I play focuses on the team (if Amanda can't go inside a gate, then someone else's will, and once on the other side, it's not very important who you are, unless you're Monterey)

PS: you never made Cultists immune to Handcuffs in the Scenario. I noticed this because I had Darrell starting with them.

Julia said:

Oo... The handcuffs thing is a significant omission (I actually need to add that to the herald, and I probably will when I repost it). I'll explain my point of view how to handle the scenario over email within the next few days (today's a long workday and tomorrow's Thanksgiving, so I don't know how much time I'll have for typing, I'll try to make time though).

I will say this in the meanwhile (so you'll have something else to ponder). You have begun thinking of combat as something to be avoided :') my point of view is that a certain amount of that can be a good idea in this scenario, but, and this is a big but, combat is necessary here for consistent wins.

Also, I'm going to have to specify that The White Ship can not be used :'P that was *definitely* not something I would have allowed (I didn't think of it earlier because I didn't design this scenario with Kingsport in mind). One of the key points in the puzzle is figuring out ways to achieve the two methods of dealing with the writhers (your third method didn't even occur to me when I designed it).