Thanks for the info, Julia! As for my question about whether all Vampires manifest for the Final Battle or just the ones on the board currently, I think that has been self-answered as well.. In my first attempt at this scenario (that didn't count due to the missing clues mistake), there were several vampire copies on the board. In this last one (and again the Ancient Ones have just awakened, so it's over...), there are none. I'm sure Avi wouldn't have intended there to be none present for the Final Battle. While it might be a cool game mechanic to have it be a variable number, it would probably be too easy to just keep the board cleansed of them.

The General Rules for these scenarios state that they are intended for people who have "all the sets from Arkham Horror to Innsmouth". Apparently that wasn't intended to include the card expansion sets... I have been using all of those, and, yes, it does make it pretty difficult. I didn't use any additional Heralds (other than Janus), just the expansion materials themselves. I did use the Organized Crime organization/institution, from the Miskatonic Horror expansion.

In truth, I was kind of happy to be rid of "the nun" when she was devoured, however.. I don't usually play with her. In this last attempt (a certain loss in Final Battle, of course), she was semi-useful at times. I started with Sister Mary, William Yorick, Gloria Goldberg and Dexter Drake. Drake was unceremoniously devoured late in the game, which was too bad because he was loaded with valuable stuff. It was because of being "twice cursed". (The first time was due to the effect of an Exhibit Item, from the revised Curse of the Dark Pharaoh card expansion.) Being cursed is just nasty. That's one of the more fearsome of Ancient One powers I've seen. In this last game, the investigators spent a disproportionate amount of time and resources getting blessed and trying not to be cursed. A couple of blessings were lost practically immediately by the curse mechanic.

This is a very interesting scenario. I usually play AH with one board expansion and one card expansion. So I guess the intention was that NO card expansions should be included...? I think I'll try this first scenario one more time. Is it the expectation in this league that each scenario should be defeated before moving on to the next? Thanks again for the info.

Hi Schmiegel,

thank your for the exhaustive reply :-)

Design: all scenarios are intended to be played with all components from all expansions up to Innsmouth. This means all the boards, and all the small cards, and all the Mythos, and all the Other Worlds and so on. Everything. (Avi suggests not to use Kingsport; but there are no rules at this regard, apart from being correct and try not to spoil the Thomas Olney encounter card).

Lurker at the Treshold and Miskatonic Horror were published after Innsmouth, so their components should not be used in the games.

You should not use Institutions. Institutions bring huge benefits to the game, changing the balance of the Scenarios. If a special component (Herald, Guardian or whatelse) is to be used in a Scenario, it is specified on that Scenario. Try to see them as a complex puzzle you have to solve: even if they seem impossible, there is always a way to beat them. Focus on the only important things in Arkham: gates and sealing. And hit them, as hard as you can, before it's too late.

As for your party: in my opinion, 4 investigators are too few to take care of all the boards. My suggestion is: go with 5 (or 6, if you use the Kingsport Board too), and try to choose carefully the carachters you play. You could consider using Wendy: even if she seems not that strong because of her low stats, she's actually one of the strongest investigators of the game.

Last but no least: there is nothing forcing you to try the next Scenario even if you don't pass the first one. Just remember: Scenarios come in small packs. The first cycle goes from Scenario 1 to Scenario 5, and you're allowed to gear up for war and carry over some items from Scenario to Scenario. Starting Scenario 2 (which is *insanely difficult* compared to the first one; at the moment is the only one I wasn't able to beat on the first try) with no resources carried over from the first one can be problematic.

As a side note, my opinion on the League: when I started, I thought Avi was a little insane. Everything seemed to me too difficult, and Scenarios impossible to beat. But... they force you to start thinking in a different way. To look at the game under a different prospective. And they teach you how to play on always higher levels. It's a unique experience, even if it can be frustrating sometimes, and it shows how good custom creations can be.

Thus, happy gaming! And beat that dam(n) Dracula! Let us know how it goes, and if you have questions, feel free to ask, we (Avi or myself, in case Avi is busy for some reasons) will answer asap to your questions!

JULIA

Hi Julia,

Thank you for the very helpful reply! I saw your message just prior to starting my third (second official) attempt at Scenario 1, so the timing was perfect. I've always been in the habit of playing with 4 investigators, and also drawing them randomly as opposed to hand picking them. Of course Sister Mary and William Yorick are in Scenario 1 by default. But I will try adding a fifth investigator. I already had Carolyn Fern and Diana Stanley randomly picked from the remaining pool, but I am adding Wendy Adams, as you suggest. Actually I've always liked playing with her. So I'll let you know how this turns out..

One thing I'm not sure I'm clear on...in order to carry anything over, the investigator in question must survive and then has to swap out a like item for the carried over item, as I interpret it. It seems like it might be hard to scale up very significantly at that rate, but I suppose it's all about the relative quality of the items...duh. Admittedly there are many weak items which could be swapped out for much better ones.. Do the carried over items need to be swapped out before the new items are drawn for the next scenario? It seems like in that event an investigator could unknowingly be sacrificing a potentially outstanding item. Or is this an incorrect interpretation? Again, your help is much appreciated!!

Schmiegel said:

Oh, you don't have to play the Lurker gates unless you really want to (it's just going to make things more difficult for you, the scenarios were designed prior to Lurker).

When Dracula awakens, any vampire copies in play are put on his card. If any of the investigators are devoured during final combat, search the cup for two more copies and place two more copies on Dracula.

So why did you end up losing? Went to final combat and lost?

Schmiegel said:

Oh, that's right... I forgot how much more difficult that scenario would become if you don't pass Mary's personal story, plus no curse shielded Wendy. You can skip a scenario if you really want to, I'd advise against it (except possibly the second one since it's such a pain, although I still think it's a challenge worth having). If you're having trouble, you should just describe your game a bit here and we could help provide advice. or explain why certain decisions were suboptimal. Anyway, I'm kind of amused. Basically you played the scenario on ultra-hard mode :') well, except for the institution.

Julia said:

I wouldn't say you *can't* use them, but I'd *strongly* advise against using the new Act Cards, the Lurker Gates, and, this might be most important, the new items and skills (I didn't think about their effects on the scenarios when designing them, since they didn't exist yet, and it's possible there will be stuff in there that can significantly undermine the game balance).

Schmiegel said:

I normally play random investigator selection, but *trust me* you do *not* want to do that for these scenarios ;') I mean, you can if you want a nightmarish challenge, but I really did put quite a bit of thought into the investigator pools and how they might interact with the scenarios.

The items you carry over replace the items you would otherwise draw (so you don't get to draw and then decide whether you want to carry over the item). Think of it as turning a random item (or one of your fixed items) into a fixed item. Basically, you should try to get a really good item or two in the first scenario (not just to beat it).

Also, I'd strongly advise taking a look at Zoey. Even if she had no other useful attributes, she starts with 4 clues (essentially enough resources to seal a gate almost immediately).

Part of the challenge in these scenarios is thinking about which investigators have the resources and abilities to get you through them. Of course, it's possible to win with investigators who are not as helpful, but, it will be *considerably* harder. Picking the team is the most important part of the game sometimes (some of the scenarios will become nightmarishly difficult if the right investigator is not selected).

Julia said:

;') amusing, but don't you still think that? Weren't you just complaining about the difficulty of a scenario that you beat with several doom tokens to spare? Yeesh ;'D I mean, not complaining.

Avi_dreader said:

I've improved *a lot* my gaming style during the last two years thanks to your League. And I'm not complaining. Just passionately debating, defending my ideas before your evil mind surges to power and the world is doomed.

Need to work on an Avi Herald. "The Avid Reader: Start of the Game. Any investigator with no Tomes is Cursed (make yourself a culture!)"

Jokes aside, this gave me some ideas for a Y'golonac Herald

"I'm rich," squeaked a giddy Sister Mary, who is ordinarily poor as a church mouse, as she accepted her $2 payment (along with an Illuminated Manuscript and a clue token) for completing her Genealogy Research task. It was the most money she had ever seen.

Well, that didn't really happen, but it was easy enough to imagine after several hours of another attempt at Scenario 1, in the wee hours of the morning. (The part about Mary squeaking "I'm rich", I mean....the rest certainly DID happen.) There was "Something About Mary" in this latest attempt, for sure. For one thing, she became "The Fighting Nun" (not to date myself). She drew the Grapple skill, and put it to good use. (If I would have won, I'd have had her carry that skill over to the next scenario, as I liked the image..). She claimed a Deep One, Leng Spider, Ghost and Wraith** as trophies and also took down two Cultist/Vampires who returned to the monster cup..and was generally very effective. She was even poised in the Esoteric Order of Dagon with two clues ready to empty the Deep One Rising track on the ensuing Upkeep when the final Deep One Rising token was placed on that track to awaken Dracula and Death. And Wendy was poised at the Historical Society with her Elder Sign waiting to close/seal gate #5.

In other words, I lost again.... But playing with 5 investigators went way better than it had with 4. The team was comprised of Sister Mary, William Yorick, Wendy Adams, Carolyn Fern and Diana Stanley (Wendy was added at Julia's suggestion, Carolyn and Diana were drawn at random.). It was much more fun. Now that I'm understanding all the nuances of this more clearly, thanks to all the great commentary you guys are providing, I am fully able to appreciate the brilliance of this whole idea. It's absolutely outstanding!

I'm going to try it again, and this time it will be with three hand-picked investigators along with Mary and William. One will be Wendy, who was awesome. (Obviously she is a necessity in this scenario, though it becomes a very tough call as to when to use her Elder Sign. I had a chance to use it at Y'ha-nthlei, but declined and just had her close the gate.. Earlier, she had sealed Devil Reef with five clues. It's too tough to give up the Elder Sign when it will protect her from being cursed (the main thing) or arrested in Innsmouth (which never came up, but still). I'm also going to use the insane chef, Zoey, though I'm not a big fan..

Since..."If a team of investigators is devoured, the same team or a new team can restart the scenario it is on with the items it carried over from the previous scenario (or a previous scenario without any previously obtained items)"....I take it that I need to draw all new items, without carrying any over, since this won't be a "previous scenario". Is that correct? That's what I'm assuming.

**In this regard, I fear for Mary's mortal soul.. She got an assist from Carolyn Fern's "Intervene" spell, giving her a +3 combat boost which indeed provided the margin in the combat victory. And God spoke to her, and implied that there might be ethical considerations given that "Intervene" is a Lurker at the Threshold item. Mary simply sneered and headed for Innsmouth. And God shuffled his feet. She is changed. "The Fighting Nun".

Julia said:

I hope you don't just curse everyone without a tome at the start of game... It'd be more interesting if there were variable effects, perhaps roll a die, 1-2 reduce maximum stamina by 2, 3-4 max san by 2, 5 cursed, 6, all of the above :'D

Another fun effect might be that whenever there is a lore check, you must pass a will check +0, with two successes, nothing happens, with one success, check the top three cards from the common item deck, placing them on the bottom of the deck afterward (but adding a doom token for each tome drawn), with zero successes do the same but from the unique item deck (more of a penalty since statistically there are more tomes in there). Could be a two card draw though.

I had a really weird thought about randomly selecting a couple of tomes and placing them on board locations, investigators attempting to move through must pass their lore checks or reduce their maximum sanity by one.

Schmiegel said:

Ooo... Illuminated manuscript is an excellent item... Unfortunately you can't keep the items you gained in a scenario to replay that scenario (if you die). It sounds like you got pretty close to the win this time. Diana Stanley's dead weight. Carolyn's okay. You'll probably win next time. Just curious, how are you dealing with Dracula (the original vampire I mean)?

It sounds like you're having fun so far though? :') (I wish I could say you'll feel the same way about the second scenario... but... it's quite harrowing). The third and fourth are quite fun though.

Avi_dreader said:

I'm thinking about using a "reverse cross" Blessings of Nodens. Every time you're Cursed, draw one Blessing of Nodens and transform the +X in -X. The effect is permanent.

Plus designing some locations (a la "The Black Man Scenario") forcing you to draw unique items before having an Encounter (those with the Unique items icon maybe?). Or something related to Lore, I had something in my mind similar to your suggestion

Plus the idea of a "corrupting desire for knowledge", thus in certain locations you have to pass a Will (-1) check or steal a book (possible locations: Library, STL, Curiosity Shoppe, Historical Society). You gain the first Tome in the UI deck, then roll a die. On a failure, you're caught and arrested.

Avi_dreader said:

Yeah, Schmiegel, keep on fighting! Scenario 3 and 4 are some of the most brilliant adventures I've ever had while playing Arkham. In a certain way, if you pass the first two Scenarios, everything's better!

I'm glad you almost did it this time! Sounds great :-) As for Wendy, just remember: she starts with three clues, so she should be able to gather quickly the other two for the first seal, while other investigators can seal in the meantime at least other two gates. Thus her ES can be used for the fourth seal. At that moment, with four seals on the board, you can accept her being cursed or arrested (you should have gathered enought trophies to buy some Blessings and protect your characters).

Zoey is good, but I'd not play Zoey here, since she's not that goos. My ideal party (of 5) is:

Mary, William (mandatory) + Wendy, Carolyn (great monster whacker thanks to her high Sanity and ability to recover Sanity point) and Norman.

Norman is a must (IMHO) for many reasons: great amount of starting clues (3), which means that in two rounds you can have both him and Wendy entering OWs. A Find Gate spell, you need to be quick to beat all these Scenarios. Besides you can have Norman passing the Find Gate by the end of the Scenario to be carried over by another investigator to the next Scenario, and in Scenario 2 you can select again Norman. So you'll have two Find Gates. And so on. Third good reason is his ability to choose, on closing gates, a dimensional symbol different from the one on the gate to remove matching monsters from the board. This helps *a lot* in case you have some obnoxious nastiness you're not able to fight!

Fingers crossed! We know on the next try you can beat it! Let us know how it goes :-)

Besides, don't worry too much about Mary. You're reight, there's something about Mary, and you'll discover some interesting things happening to her in the next Scenarios ::laughter::

Very interesting comments! The ongoing dialogue/advice is most appreciated. Julia, thanks for the excellent suggestions and Avi, for the timely responses to questions. My current team is the Default Two, Wendy, Zoey and Jacqueline "She's So" Fine. Yes, this is certainly a blast, but I don't think I'll be winning this latest attempt. Jackie does have an Illuminated Manuscript and Arcane Insight to go along with her Precognition ability. But Innsmouth has been awash in monsters. There are six there currently (although two won't move from their present locations), and four have already gone into vortices so the Deep Ones Rising track is at four (and I'm only on turn 6). Zoey is about to come back from another world but will now have to use her clues to feed the track instead of sealing the gate, if time will even allow it to get that far. (Maybe the Arcane Insight spell can save the day.)

Avi, I'm not sure what you mean by how am I handling the Original Vampire. Just as you stipulated on the Dracula sheet, along with an additional -2 horror rating. That's probably not what you mean.. Beyond that, in no special way, in terms of containing him.....just dealing with him. He just sent William and Jackie both to the hospital (three investigators are there currently, following a monster surge). This team is pathetically under-armed and won't be long for this world. Sigh.

Julia said:

Ooo... I *really* like the reversed Blessings of Nodens idea. Very interesting way to bring the deck into play. I would say, that the cards are changed to say lose instead of gain, subtract instead of add, and if a card says discard to prevent something, instead immediately discard it to cause that effect. I'd also add that if a blessing card remains entirely positive still (there are a few) discard it and draw another one. Or you could let people keep a few beneficial cards in the deck ;')

I suppose.

Julia said:

Heh... See... I would have picked Zoey instead of Carolyn ;'D 4 clues, a starting cross (along with Mary's you can give any of your investigators +2 to horror checks, that can really come in handy— plus there are lots of undead in this scenario, so they could also be used for +6 to combat), and her monster fighting ability. And she starts with two uniques :'D (then again, so does Carolyn, plus 5 dollars more, buuuut, three extra clues means a quick gate seal in the beginning). Anyhoo... There are pros and cons to each— and Carolyn is a good spell caster because she regenerates sanity (in retrospect I should have made it so that if investigators pass Dexter's personal story, it stays passed between the scenarios— actually I'll go do that right now)... But I agree on Norman. Even if you don't want to keep him, it might not be a bad idea to recruit him for one scenario just so that you'll have a find gate to pass on for the next.

Schmiegel said:

:') There are a few obvious ways of dealing with him. You can use the patrol wagon to get around him. Or you can use Wendy to distract him (he can't hit her anyway). In general, it's really important to understand that one of Wendy's less appreciated abilities, is her power to freeze monsters from moving if they are in the street with impunity. Or, you can use Zoey to, cough cough, take away his magical resistance and just whack him ;'D I think there's also a spell that lets you move him around.

I'd completely forgotten about Jacqueline. Yeah, she's a major asset, as long as you only spend her clues at advantageous times, she can turn a loss into a win. What, two doom tokens? No, I'd rather pay two clues. Gate in Devil's Reef? No, I'd rather pay two clues. Etc. The trick to using her well is *not* using her unless you have to (prevent double doom, usually, prevent gate bursts, almost always) or reaaaally really really want to (i.e. to prevent a Devil's Reef gate or a Y'ha Nethlei gate). Just bear in mind, in most situations, you're better off just keeping the clues and letting the mythos card go through. Especially since if you don't, you risk the second card drawn being considerably nastier than the first (and unpreventable).

... Another really important thing to think about during these scenarios (and during all of Arkham really), is that the game grows in difficulty the longer you let things go on, so, yeah, you can let Innsmouth get out of hand by waiting, and end up having to spend six clues to clear the DOR track, orrrrr, Just between Wendy, Zoey, and Norman, you have 10 clues and an Elder Sign (enough resources to seal three gates from the first turn ). You can basically try to tank through. If I remember correctly, I beat scenario one with eight doom on the track. I mean, if you think of it this way, you only have to gather another 15 clues. Shouldn't be too hard, right? Assuming you only get clues from picking them up. You should be able to get at *least* two clues per turn, so, by turn eight, you should have enough clues to finish off the game— but of course, realistically, you can get clues faster because William's trophies are all equal to clues, plus there's the science building, plus you can do some shopping and hopefully run across another Elder Sign.

In other words :') you can win this.

Avi_dreader said:

Yep, you got it. I don't know very well the Blessings of Nodens cards (I think I used him two or three times, and only in particularly difficult games), so I have to study them a little, but your wording reflects exactly my thoughts, so I'd probably use it ::smiling::

I'll write a first draft this week :-)

Avi_dreader said:

That's an interesting debate on strategy. Thanks Avi, even without Skype, something good's coming :-) I never thought about combining crosses. Actually, it's a brilliant strategy.

And yeah, pros and cons on both side. I'd go with Carolyn because of her stability, you'll go with Zoey to blitzkrieg the game. When I played Scenario 1, I wasn't so confident to push the game in this way (I needed Scenario 14 to realize this), but now I can see what you mean.

Interesting to notice that, more or less, our Dream Teams are the same

Personally, I really love Norman, and play gladly with him. But anyway, tactically it's the best way to gather all the Find gates of the Spell deck for Scenario 5 (and man, you need all the possible help in that Scenario)

I want to play the League again. Ugh.

Avi_dreader said:

That's the reason why you should be designing something official. I don't think many people have ever considered the ability to use Wendy to attract and freeze the most difficult monsters. Generally speaking, it's authomatical thinking that Wendy uses her ability to bypass monsters and keep on moving. But she can also exploit a tiny tiny loophole by entering a space, authomatically passing the Evade, and stopping there, hindering the monster from any further movement. Indeed.

Avi_dreader said:

Not to mention my beloved Mi-go Brain Case ::laughter:: I noticed you've forbidden to Brain Case the Black Man. SOB

Avi_dreader said:

Yeah, that's the point. It's not so easy to use Jacq properly. Besides, it's very difficult to use her even as a normal investigator while blocking Mythos. It's rather complex. Maybe it's easier for the first Scenario playing without her

Schmiegel: sorry for the bad luck. Sometimes, it happens that even if you have the perfect team and play very well, the sentient board eats you. Let us kno how it ended!

Julia said:

I don't know... I didn't think scenario 5 was very difficult. Even without using visions. It was more annoying than difficult. I mostly relied on Wendy and Zoey for sealing. And I might've thrown one other investigator into the gates. Of course, with visions, it's even easier :')

Welllll... Now that I modified Dexter, he might play a bit differently. Starting with shrivelling miiiight be a bit tempting (along with the three spell draw).

Yeah, well, usually the harder you push the game, the weaker it gets. Unless you push when you're not ready, in which case... ;'D

I don't even remember which items I had for the first five scenarios... I vaguely remember an alchemy, two clue generating items, and the +2 to horror checks unique item.

Julia said:

Jacq. isn't that important in the first scenario, the doom tracks are relatively slow. Although it's always nice to be able to cancel gate bursts... Wendy's ability is a very good thing to understand... I remember her saving my ass in an expansion board by blocking a vortex until an investigator who could fight could get there. She's also good for freezing monsters while also getting a sky monster to show up on the same spot so another investigator can get two or more kills in one move.

Oh. Did you noticed that I plugged all the ways you could possibly pull off an exploit against The Black Man? ;') I'm sorry, it was entirely accidental, I assure you ;'D :'D ;'D