This might be a stupid question, but I just gotta ask. How are cards gonna hold value, in a game in which there are no trading and deck construction?

I understand that each "Unique" deck you purchase has already a premade set of 36 cards, and there are no other decks like it. However, how will you know which of those are "Rare" or "Common", and why would it matter seeing that I will never trade/sell these cards, because it was spificly made for that deck? I dunno, I am just not seeing the big picture here.

Individual cards hold no value, but a whole deck does.

Rare means most decks don't have that card. If you want to play with that card it will be harder to get a deck that does.

I fully expect powerful rare creatures, the Blue Eyes White Dragon of Keyforge. That in itself will make the deck more valuable just by being in it.

The cards have different symbols on them signifying their rarity, but it's not for us, it's for the sorting algoritm to determine how frequently it will appear in decks. (rulebook page 11)

As for the value: My guess would be to treat entire decks as mtg singles.

Yeah there would be no singles in this game. A single card is worthless since a deck needs to stay together to be legal. The entire decks will have value and since each deck is unique they will gain reputations as they start to win tournaments and pass through well known players' hands if the game really takes off competitively.

I see. So Rarity, in opposition of other games, does not imply how good a card is., it implies how commonly it shows up. And I am assuming how much complexly goes with rare card. Thanks everyone!

I wonder tho. Would it be possible to get a deck of all rares?

1 minute ago, Zigbert said:

I see. So Rarity, in opposition of other games, does not imply how good a card is., it implies how commonly it shows up. And I am assuming how much complexly goes with rare card. Thanks everyone!

I wonder tho. Would it be possible to get a deck of all rares?

We're not sure what the card selection algorithm is like yet.

I am willing to be power level goes up with rarity though. It allows them to have more powerful effects without making overpowered decks since rares show up much less frequently.

1 hour ago, Zigbert said:

I see. So Rarity, in opposition of other games, does not imply how good a card is., it implies how commonly it shows up. And I am assuming how much complexly goes with rare card. Thanks everyone!

I wonder tho. Would it be possible to get a deck of all rares?

Not every card is rare because it's good. Mtg has plenty junk rares while some banned cards have been uncommons.

I doubt that will happen, My bet is, each faction in a deck will have a fixed number of slots: say 8 common, 3 uncommon 1 rare, per house. So you would get 3 rares, 9 uncommons and 24 commons per deck. With maybe a special card taking the place of a rare or uncommon. But that's just my theory. It could be way more random.

I was kind of assuming that the 'special' designation was for cards like the Archon, Stun and Power cards.

I’m guessing a short hand will develop around the game’s most desirable card sets and combos and that secondary sales will revolve around those for valuation.

but I suspect the secondary market will be small and most folks will be playing with their favorite stuff.

In the TC videos I've seen from Gen Con they mentioned rarity has more to do with card complexity. So the majority of the deck is mechanically simple while a few cards in the deck have more complicated rules.

54 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

Not every card is rare because it's good. Mtg has plenty junk rares while some banned cards have been uncommons.

I doubt that will happen, My bet is, each faction in a de  ck will have a fixed number of slots: say 8 common, 3 uncommon 1 rare, per house. So you would get 3 rares, 9 uncommons and 24 commons per deck. With maybe a  special card taking the place of a rare or uncommon. But that's just my theory. It could be way more random.

We heard in the TC video that the amount of commons, uncommons and rares are not fixed.

The secondary market will be its own interesting little experiment. I suspect that any given deck (when listed by people familiar with the game) will list each card in the deck. Buying from the secondary market will then require significantly more time to view & research. I'd expect to have a certain desired 3-4 cards represented in a deck and then search for one that has those cards listed.

This will be an odd sort of thing. For most (perhaps all?) games, sealed product is weighted by potential content (unless fixed) and is therefore less valuable (save for a few rares) when opened. In this derived market, however, a sealed deck could easily be less desirable than an opened one. It will be a kick to the head for anyone used to selling singles that picks up the game for resale.

The more I see on this, the more interested I'm becoming. Surprising.

1 hour ago, Ignithas said:

We heard in the TC video that the amount of commons, uncommons and rares are not fixed.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. Say' you wouldn't mind posting the link here, please?

29 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting. Say' you wouldn't mind posting the link here, please?

Around -30:06.

7 hours ago, Ignithas said:

Around -30:06.

That looks fantastic as a play experience

Discarding the deckbuilding and mana problems looks to have been a great move.

Something I thought of last night :

If the App / Website display your decks and how well they perform... You could show of how successful it is which would allow you to sell it online for a better price. So amazing players could profit from their skill by winning more with okay decks and pretending the decks to be OP. ^^

There absolutely will be trading, just of whole decks, not cards.

Decks will gain value in one of two broad ways:

- containing certain cards/combos that the player base perceives to be good/powerful

- a player piloting a deck to wins/tournament wins

The idea of a specific deck, 'doing the rounds' and winning X number of tournaments, being sold on the secondary market for $$$$, winning other tournaments and being 'known' to the player base as a distinct entity is awesome to me.

33 minutes ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

There absolutely will be trading, just of whole decks, not cards.

Decks will gain value in one of two broad ways:

- containing certain cards/combos that the player base perceives to be good/powerful

- a player piloting a deck to wins/tournament wins

They will also benefit from being a specific house or a group of houses.

At current, there are 9 factions. Therefore, if you want a specific faction, it will be a 1:9. If you want a specific secondary houses, it's a 1:72 chance (x=9!/7!). If you want a specific house and two specific secondary houses, it's a 1:504 chance (x=9!/6!).

If you're buying in the primary market (LFGS) it's not realistic to consistently get the three houses you want. The secondary market however, it is achievable.

38 minutes ago, Duciris said:

They will also benefit from being a specific house or a group of houses.

At current, there are 9 factions. Therefore, if you want a specific faction, it will be a 1:9. If you want a specific secondary houses, it's a 1:72 chance (x=9!/7!). If you want a specific house and two specific secondary houses, it's a 1:504 chance (x=9!/6!).

If you're buying in the primary market (LFGS) it's not realistic to consistently get the three houses you want. The secondary market however, it is achievable.

Where have you seen 9 factions, everything I have seen said 7? I did see one interview that there could be more factions released later. When considering how likely it is to get a certain faction I can only imagine how likely it is to get a certain couple of cards in that faction and this fact makes me believe the super overpowered decks will be extremely rare.

45 minutes ago, Duciris said:

They will also benefit from being a specific house or a group of houses.

At current, there are 9 factions.

7 factions. 35 possible house combinations. And as has been said elsewhere, if you want three specific factions and don't want to play with anything else, this may not be a good game for you. It will definitely be expensive if you want to sift through decks to get the ones you want, or time-consuming to find people trading or selling the deck you want.

2 hours ago, blindside14 said:

Where have you seen 9 factions, everything I have seen said 7? I did see one interview that there could be more factions released later. When considering how likely it is to get a certain faction I can only imagine how likely it is to get a certain couple of cards in that faction and this fact makes me believe the super overpowered decks will be extremely rare.

2 hours ago, Xelto said:

7 factions. 35 possible house combinations. And as has been said elsewhere, if you want three specific factions and don't want to play with anything else, this may not be a good game for you. It will definitely be expensive if you want to sift through decks to get the ones you want, or time-consuming to find people trading or selling the deck you want.

My mistake. 7 it is.

Also, my math was wrong. The second and third should have been 1:12 chance (x=9!/(7!*3!)) & 1:84 chance (x=9!/(6!*3!)). The original math could yield: House 1 with House 2 & 3, and also, House 1 with House 3 & 2. Needed to divide both by the factorial of the number of possible (3). (Just wanted to clarify that. That math is irrelevant b/c it's not 9 factions.) My original formula was for a non-repeating code of 9 digits. This is for a number of unique groups comprising the 9 unique possibles.

For 7 factions, it is 35 (x=7!/(5!*3!)=35). *Phew* I was also of the mistaken view that you had a central house in your deck, and that your archon was from it. That is not the case.

2 minutes ago, Duciris said:

My mistake. 7 it is.

Also, my math was wrong. The second and third should have been 1:12 chance (x=9!/(7!*3!)) & 1:84 chance (x=9!/(6!*3!)). The original math could yield: House 1 with House 2 & 3, and also, House 1 with House 3 & 2. Needed to divide both by 2. (Just wanted to clarify. That math is irrelevant b/c it's not 9 factions.)

For 7 factions, it is 35 (x=7!/(5!*3!)=35). *Phew* I was also of the mistaken view that you had a central house in your deck, and that your archon was from it. That is not the case.

I would love to know the odds of getting the three factions desired and getting a particular card for all three factions someone was wanting.

On 8/4/2018 at 2:07 AM, MrMenthe said:

Something I thought of last night :

If the App / Website display your decks and how well they perform... You could show of how successful it is which would allow you to sell it online for a better price. So amazing players could profit from their skill by winning more with okay decks and pretending the decks to be OP. ^^

Except if a deck does well it is either handicapped or banned. I suspect that will have an impact on the secondary market.

2 minutes ago, Krashwire said:

Except if a deck does well it is either handicapped or banned. I suspect that will have  an impact on the secondary market.

It isn't handicapped in competitive tournaments though.