HELP

Can a Y-Wing equipped with a turret aimed out front and VetTurGun double tap? I had initially assumed so, considering the little turret icon to reference the weapon being used, rather than the arc (with dual arcs being 2 weapons).

However, the new rules reference states that any arc to which the turret is pointing is also a (turret symbol), indicating that the symbol might not refer to the weapon, but simply to the direction, thus prohibiting double taps when both are aimed forward...

Any thoughts/answers?

Hmm.

From the reference:

The standard arc that the turret arc indicator is pointing toward is a {turret} in addition
to still being a standard arc.

I would think that you could double tap.

7 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

HELP

Can a Y-Wing equipped with a turret aimed out front and VetTurGun double tap? I had initially assumed so, considering the little turret icon to reference the weapon being used, rather than the arc (with dual arcs being 2 weapons).

However, the new rules reference states that any arc to which the turret is pointing is also a (turret symbol), indicating that the symbol might not refer to the weapon, but simply to the direction, thus prohibiting double taps when both are aimed forward...

Any thoughts/answers?

Yeah, you can double tap with them, the mobile arc is separate from the primary arc.

Glorious. I thought as much

I think its the "in addition" wording that ensures the double tap

Incredible!

would hope double tap exists

8 points for a Vet gunner atop having to buy a turret would be utterly worthless without the double-tap

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

would hope double tap exists

8 points for a Vet gunner atop having to buy a turret would be utterly worthless without the double-tap

RIP TIE/d

Drea (Expert Handling, ICT, Hotshot, cloaking)

3 Goons (ict, vet gunner)

Go forth and tap!

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Drea (Expert Handling, ICT, Hotshot, cloaking)

3 Goons (ict, vet gunner)

Go forth and tap!

This is a great chassis, and there's a bit of flexibility. I think I'll put seismics on the goons instead of EH and cloak.

idk, if you ever run into TIE swarm you're gonna be wishing you had EH and cloak. IT's REALLY good for arc-dodging, especially with a turret handy

really good for avoiding arcs, and since Drea doesn't have to fly in formation to give mods they're probably really good with her

or him, or it or they. No idea who Drea is

Drea is a human female pirate queen. First appeared in a Han Solo focused novel, the Hutt Gambit by AC Crispin. She was also one of Lando's lovers.

I don't remember the books very well, though, honestly.

And I rethought the seismics. There's still only six obstacles on the table (granted, that comes with enough charges for all of them). My original thought is that Drea is going to get toasted so the goons should have some extra tricks but I'm ultimately not certain I'll get to use them much.

I like the chassis, not sure where to go with the build but I'm less sure of the cloak.

I don't know how else poor Drea can dodge formations without the decloak movement

seems pretty strong at a glance, but of course need to test

Frank Brooks has confirmed the double tap with veteran turret gunner.

38 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Frank Brooks has confirmed the double tap with veteran turret gunner.

Cool. Details on how he confirmed this?

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

Frank Brooks has confirmed the double tap with veteran turret gunner.

Well, Alex Davy confirmed the Advanced Sensors Darth Vader interaction.

Which means nothing.

So, if you have Chewy in the Falcon and Han as his gunner does that mean Han can shoot at I6 out of one arc and Chewy shoots out of the other arc at I4?

13 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So, if you have Chewy in the Falcon and Han as his gunner does that mean Han can shoot at I6 out of one arc and Chewy shoots out of the other arc at I4?

I7 for Han, but yes

On 8/4/2018 at 9:53 PM, drail14me said:

So, if you have Chewy in the Falcon and Han as his gunner does that mean Han can shoot at I6 out of one arc and Chewy shoots out of the other arc at I4?

No, because the rules only allow for one attack per engagement. Veteran Turret Gunner explicitly allows an additional attack, but neither the Han gunner nor the Chewie pilot card provide a second attack.

Rulebook, p.8, first paragraph under "Phase 4: Engagement Phase":

Quote

When a ship engages it may perform one attack ... After all ships have had the opportunity to engage during the Engagement Phase, the players proceed to the End Phase.

So, Chewie with Han engage. They get to perform one attack, and choose to use Han's gunner ability at I7. He's only allowed one attack, and since Chewie got his opportunity during the Engagement Phase, then once all the other pilots get their opportunities, play moves on to the End Phase. There's no second opportunity granted. Han isn't an additional pilot - he's allowing Chewie to fire at I7.

This is in contrast to Veteran Turret Gunner, which specifically provides a bonus attack.The Rules Reference document further confirms this. Page 10, under "Engagement Phase":

Quote

When a ship engages, it may perform an attack.

...

* Each ship engages only once during this phase.

So, it gets one attack per engagement, and can only engage once per Engagement Phase. Ergo, Gunner Han does not allow Han to shoot at I7 then Chewie to shoot at I4. What Gunner Han does is allow Chewie to attack once at I7.

The part of Gunner Han that says "You cannot attack from that <turret-arc> again this round" is future-proofing in case another card provides a bonus attack. It doesn't not provide a bonus attack on its own.

Every gunner that allows for a bonus attack explicitly specifies that it provides a bonus attack. Han doesn't.

On 8/4/2018 at 7:16 PM, Commander Kaine said:

Well, Alex Davy confirmed the Advanced Sensors Darth Vader interaction.

Which means nothing.

? Vader worked fine with the Advanced Sensors they released in wave 0. The curse of being a dev means that you have a dozen versions of each card floating around in your head. Frank answered a direct question about a specific card, and his answer fits with the rule book, so I don't know what the issue is.

2 hours ago, Freeptop said:

No, because the rules only allow for one attack per engagement. Veteran Turret Gunner explicitly allows an additional attack, but neither the Han gunner nor the Chewie pilot card provide a second attack.

Rulebook, p.8, first paragraph under "Phase 4: Engagement Phase":

So, Chewie with Han engage. They get to perform one attack, and choose to use Han's gunner ability at I7. He's only allowed one attack, and since Chewie got his opportunity during the Engagement Phase, then once all the other pilots get their opportunities, play moves on to the End Phase. There's no second opportunity granted. Han isn't an additional pilot - he's allowing Chewie to fire at I7.

This is in contrast to Veteran Turret Gunner, which specifically provides a bonus attack.The Rules Reference document further confirms this. Page 10, under "Engagement Phase":

So, it gets one attack per engagement, and can only engage once per Engagement Phase. Ergo, Gunner Han does not allow Han to shoot at I7 then Chewie to shoot at I4. What Gunner Han does is allow Chewie to attack once at I7.

The part of Gunner Han that says "You cannot attack from that <turret-arc> again this round" is future-proofing in case another card provides a bonus attack. It doesn't not provide a bonus attack on its own.

Every gunner that allows for a bonus attack explicitly specifies that it provides a bonus attack. Han doesn't.

Han gives you an attack at I7, he doesn't change your engagement to I7 like Heightened Perception does. Han is just an upgraded Vet Turret Gunner, that's all, and at a 4 point premium, he might not even be worth it.

Wait...Han gunner gives an I7 attack? Where did this information come from?

3 hours ago, KenYn said:

Wait...Han gunner gives an I7 attack? Where did this information come from?

From the card...

5 hours ago, Freeptop said:

No, because the rules only allow for one attack per engagement. Veteran Turret Gunner explicitly allows an additional attack, but neither the Han gunner nor the Chewie pilot card provide a second attack.

Rulebook, p.8, first paragraph under "Phase 4: Engagement Phase":

So, Chewie with Han engage. They get to perform one attack, and choose to use Han's gunner ability at I7. He's only allowed one attack, and since Chewie got his opportunity during the Engagement Phase, then once all the other pilots get their opportunities, play moves on to the End Phase. There's no second opportunity granted. Han isn't an additional pilot - he's allowing Chewie to fire at I7.

This is in contrast to Veteran Turret Gunner, which specifically provides a bonus attack.The Rules Reference document further confirms this. Page 10, under "Engagement Phase":

So, it gets one attack per engagement, and can only engage once per Engagement Phase. Ergo, Gunner Han does not allow Han to shoot at I7 then Chewie to shoot at I4. What Gunner Han does is allow Chewie to attack once at I7.

The part of Gunner Han that says "You cannot attack from that <turret-arc> again this round" is future-proofing in case another card provides a bonus attack. It doesn't not provide a bonus attack on its own.

Every gunner that allows for a bonus attack explicitly specifies that it provides a bonus attack. Han doesn't. 

Han does add an additional attack.

Heightened perception says: "...engage at initiative 7 instead of your standard initiative value this phase"
Rebel Han gunner says: "During the engagement phase, at initiative 7, you may perform a [turret] attack".

Rebel Han does not change when you engage. Thus, you do not engage at initiative 7, and any abilities that trigger off engaging will not occur. You merely perform a bonus attack at initiative 7. Play then proceeds down the initiative chain until your initiative (4, in chewbacca's case), when you engage. Anything that triggers off engaging (such as scum han gunner or feedback array) occurs now, and as per the rulebook:

Quote

"When a ship engages, it may perform one attack..."

You thus perform your normal attack.

The difference in wording is because VTG adds a bonus attack immediately after you engage, while Han adds a bonus attack at i7. Thus, if you had Han gunner but Torkil Mux used his ability on you, you'd attack once at init7 and once at init0. If you had VTG, both your attacks would be at init0.

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

Han does add an additional attack.

Heightened perception says: "...engage at initiative 7 instead of your standard initiative value this phase"
Rebel Han gunner says: "During the engagement phase, at initiative 7, you may perform a [turret] attack".

Rebel Han does not change when you engage. Thus, you do not engage at initiative 7, and any abilities that trigger off engaging will not occur. You merely perform a bonus attack at initiative 7. Play then proceeds down the initiative chain until your initiative (4, in chewbacca's case), when you engage. Anything that triggers off engaging (such as scum han gunner or feedback array) occurs now, and as per the rulebook:

You thus perform your normal attack.

The difference in wording is because VTG adds a bonus attack immediately after you engage, while Han adds a bonus attack at i7. Thus, if you had Han gunner but Torkil Mux used his ability on you, you'd attack once at init7 and once at init0. If you had VTG, both your attacks would be at init0.

It's pretty clear the entire intention of Gunner Han is that "Han shoots first". I don't think they meant to have it also mean "Han shoots twice."

That said, I can see your argument, but it seems like you're parsing the rules rather finely in order to come to that conclusion. This will need to be clarified by FFG, because I'll guarantee that without official word, there are going to be arguments over this one.

1 hour ago, Freeptop said:

It's pretty clear the entire intention of Gunner Han is that "Han shoots first". I don't think they meant to have it also mean "Han shoots twice."

That said, I can see your argument, but it seems like you're parsing the rules rather finely in order to come to that conclusion. This will need to be clarified by FFG, because I'll guarantee that without official word, there are going to be arguments over this one.

Do what the card says. Don’t do what the card doesn’t say to do. Han does not change when you engage. Han just adds a turret attack at I7. You’re reading too much into a simple card.

For corroborating evidence look at Hans cost. Heightened Perception is overpriced at three points, who would buy the same ability for twelve points when you can get Vet Turret Gunner for eight?