8 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

You're missing the point.

Yes, it can fail, but there's no enumerated consequence for failure. (That I saw. "Return to the status quo" is not the same thing as "this cannot be done again.") When a ship fails an action, the enumerated consequence is that it loses the action. That is not specified for decloak.

Now I see. Yeah, that makes sense so you can repeat the cloak. Though the official clarification would be nice.

2 minutes ago, ssspikeee said:

Now I see. Yeah, that makes sense so you can repeat the cloak. Though the official clarification would be nice.

Agreed. For instance, maybe it's prohibited by "once per opportunity"? (Not that I can tell, but who knows?)

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

Agreed. For instance, maybe it's prohibited by "once per opportunity"? (Not that I can tell, but who knows?)

Read the failed action in conjunction with the cloak section. If you fail, you cant try again in a different direction. 3rd bullet point

Some effects can fail, which means the effect did not resolve as intended and
instead is resolved in a default way.
• A ship can fail when it barrel rolls, boosts coordinates, decloaks, deploys,
jams, locks, or SLAMs.
• An effect that fails does not trigger any effects that would occur after a
ship resolves that effect.
• If an action fails, the player does not choose a different action to perform
and cannot choose to resolve the effect in a different way.
• If an action fails, since the action was not completed, that ship cannot
perform a linked action.
• If a red action fails, the ship does not gain a stress token.

1 minute ago, ViscerothSWG said:

• If an action fails , the player does not choose a different action to perform
and cannot choose to resolve the effect in a different way.

If you're gonna quote rules, awesome. But read the whole rule.

3 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

Read the failed action in conjunction with the cloak section. If you fail, you cant try again in a different direction. 3rd bullet point

Some effects can fail, which means the effect did not resolve as intended and
instead is resolved in a default way.
• A ship can fail when it barrel rolls, boosts coordinates, decloaks, deploys,
jams, locks, or SLAMs.
• An effect that fails does not trigger any effects that would occur after a
ship resolves that effect.
• If an action fails, the player does not choose a different action to perform
and cannot choose to resolve the effect in a different way.
• If an action fails, since the action was not completed, that ship cannot
perform a linked action.
• If a red action fails, the ship does not gain a stress token.

So we've just discussed that decloak is not an action)

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

If you're gonna quote rules, awesome. But read the whole rule.

Decloaking does not count as executing a maneuver or performing an
action but does count as a move.
• A ship can decloak even while stressed.
• When a player declares to decloak a ship, that player must declare which
type of boost or barrel roll it is going to perform before placing a template
on the play area.
• If a decloak fails, the ship is returned to its prior position before it
attempted the decloak and the cloak token is not removed.
• Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it
decloaked.

1 minute ago, ViscerothSWG said:

• If a decloak fails, the ship is returned to its prior position before it
attempted the decloak and the cloak token is not removed.

... Okay, so you're responding without actually reading or understanding the facts already discussed. Cool. Have fun with that.

It says effect. You cant try the decloak effect again. Reread the rule.

Just now, ViscerothSWG said:

It says effect. You cant try the decloak effect again. Reread the rule.

It also specifies that's the case " if an action fails ." The only thing that happens if a decloak fails is that you return to the status quo. There's nothing that prohibits trying again (that I know of) because -- please pay attention -- decloak is not an action .

On another point, it does clarify that if it does not say so, effects affecting face down damage cards, such as repairing or exposing, are random. It specifically says to shuffle the cards and let your opponent choose.

That is a stretch even for rules lawyering

Under cloak is says the condition under which the cloak fails.

Under fail it explains what happens when a decloak fails, and specifically says you cant retry an effect (a word inclusive to what decloak is)

OMG. I'm out. (This is why X-Wing can't have nice things.)

This is a change:

• A device cannot be placed so that a portion of the device would be outside the play area. If this would happen, play is reversed to before the device was placed—the device is not placed, any charges spent are recovered, and the player can choose to not place that device.

I checked the 1.0 FAQ, and you could drop stuff off the map, and if at least part of it was on, you treated that part as normal for effects.

"The standard arc that the turret arc indicator is pointing toward is a [turret arc] in addition to still being a standard arc. While a ship performs a attack, it can attack a target that is in its [turret] arc.

...

A ship can adjust which standard arc(s) that its turret arc indicator is pointing towards by using the rotate action"

This seems to confirm to me that when ships with a forward primary and a turret equipped have their turret arc pointed forward, firing the primary counts as firing from the turret arc.

Which means that Veteran Turret Gunner on a Y-Wing, for example, won't let you double tap out the front if you have your turret facing forward.

That probably won't come as a surprise to some, but I'm now a little sad we don't have the 1e BTL-A4 title in the game. The Y-Wing we've got is actually the S3 model, despite what it says on the box.

1 minute ago, GuacCousteau said:

"The standard arc that the turret arc indicator is pointing toward is a [turret arc] in addition to still being a standard arc. While a ship performs a attack, it can attack a target that is in its [turret] arc.

...

A ship can adjust which standard arc(s) that its turret arc indicator is pointing towards by using the rotate action"

This seems to confirm to me that when ships with a forward primary and a turret equipped have their turret arc pointed forward, firing the primary counts as firing from the turret arc.

Which means that Veteran Turret Gunner on a Y-Wing, for example, won't let you double tap out the front if you have your turret facing forward.

That probably won't come as a surprise to some, but I'm now a little sad we don't have the 1e BTL-A4 title in the game. The Y-Wing we've got is actually the S3 model, despite what it says on the box.

You've got to be kidding me. Thats like, the only thing that made things like VetTurGun worthwhile.

Upon thought, I have to say I disagree. VetTurGun states that after you perform a primary attack (ie the Ys primary), you may perform a turret attack using a turret you haven't already used. You haven't used the turret, so you can double tap. The text doesn't speak about arc, just weapon.

On ships with bowtie arcs, each one counts as a different weapon, I'd assume, for such purposes

57 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

You're missing the point.

Yes, it can fail, but there's no enumerated consequence for failure. (That I saw. "Return to the status quo" is not the same thing as "this cannot be done again.") When a ship fails an action, the enumerated consequence is that it loses the action. That is not specified for decloak.

FAQ needed. Are you saying it’s different because it’s not an action?

1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

One very interesting bit is that you can boost/roll onto obstacles, suffering all standard effects. It's no longer a fail.

are you sure about that? I've read : "A barrel roll fails if *blablabla* : ◊ All three positions would cause the ship to overlap or move through an obstacle."
to me that sounds like it's the same as it was before?

2 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

FAQ needed. Are you saying it’s different because it’s not an action?

Unless there's another rule that somehow prohibits it, yeah. It's certainly not prohibited by the restrictions placed "if an action fails," for (I sincerely would have thought) obvious reasons.

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

Unless there's another rule that somehow prohibits it, yeah. It's certainly not prohibited by the restrictions placed "if an action fails," for (I sincerely would have thought) obvious reasons.

It is very obvious to me now. I will revisit in the few seconds after my opponent fails to decloak for the first time.

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Unless there's another rule that somehow prohibits it, yeah. It's certainly not prohibited by the restrictions placed "if an action fails," for (I sincerely would have thought) obvious reasons.

I'm confused. Isn't this covered by Once Per Oppurtunity on page 1. It's true that decloaking isn't an action but the opportunity to decloak has passed at the point that you would attempt again.

However, even if that does cover it, I think they do need to add some language there because it's clearly not, well, clear.

20 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

"The standard arc that the turret arc indicator is pointing toward is a [turret arc] in addition to still being a standard arc. While a ship performs a attack, it can attack a target that is in its [turret] arc.

...

A ship can adjust which standard arc(s) that its turret arc indicator is pointing towards by using the rotate action"

This seems to confirm to me that when ships with a forward primary and a turret equipped have their turret arc pointed forward, firing the primary counts as firing from the turret arc.

Which means that Veteran Turret Gunner on a Y-Wing, for example, won't let you double tap out the front if you have your turret facing forward.

That probably won't come as a surprise to some, but I'm now a little sad we don't have the 1e BTL-A4 title in the game. The Y-Wing we've got is actually the S3 model, despite what it says on the box.

I'm reading this the opposite of how you're reading it. It seems to say that it's a turret arc as well as a normal firing arc, meaning two separate arcs existing in the same location.

Guess we need further clarification on this point as well.

3 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

I'm confused. Isn't this covered by Once Per Oppurtunity on page 1. It's true that decloaking isn't an action but the opportunity to decloak has passed at the point that you would attempt again.

However, even if that does cover it, I think they do need to add some language there because it's clearly not, well, clear.

I'm reading this the opposite of how you're reading it. It seems to say that it's a turret arc as well as a normal firing arc, meaning two separate arcs existing in the same location.

Guess we need further clarification on this point as well.

Yooo I think you're right, especially because of the "in addition" phrasing. So double taps are good, because you fire out the standard AND the turret

5 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

I'm confused. Isn't this covered by Once Per Oppurtunity on page 1. It's true that decloaking isn't an action but the opportunity to decloak has passed at the point that you would attempt again.

However, even if that does cover it, I think they do need to add some language there because it's clearly not, well, clear.

Agreed with the second paragraph. I don't believe Once Per Opportunity applies, because it specifies that an ability can't be "resolved" more than once per opportunity. If returning to the pre-decloak status quo counts as "resolving" the decloak, that itself needs to be made clear. (But, as I said above, "Who knows?")

" Fail " should have been reserved as a keyword for things that, if they are not successful, result in the loss of the opportunity to try them (or something else) again. (And, again, that might even be the intent. They just failed in executing it, if so. I guess we can let them try again, since we're Rules Lawyerin' Casual.)

Okay, looking under “shields”: If I lose a shield, I flip it to the red side. But if I am reading this right, if I ‘spend’ a shield, it seems to say that I remove the token from the ship, and as such can’t be replenished. This has some bearing to ships planning to use Bomblet Generator and Inertial Dampeners.

Quote

• When an effect instructs a ship to lose a shield, a shield assigned to the ship card is flipped to its inactive side.

• When an effect instructs a ship to spend a shield, a card loses a shield. A ship cannot spend a shield if all of its shields are inactive.

Edit: Nevermind, I fail reading comprehension. Go about your day.

7 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Unless there's another rule that somehow prohibits it, yeah. It's certainly not prohibited by the restrictions placed "if an action fails," for (I sincerely would have thought) obvious reasons.

No FAQ is needed.

The Fail sequition says this:

Quote

Some effects can fail, which means the effect did not resolve as intended and instead is resolved in a default way.

Each effect indicates what this default effect is. For decloak it is:

Quote

If a decloak fails, the ship is returned to its prior position before it attempted the decloak and the cloak token is not removed

which happens instead of the intended effect (not this it is instead of, so the intended effect has been replaced by this default effect).

Since decloak is not an action, the part about actions is not relevant, but since the effect triggered by the ability decloak has now happened and been replaced, the system step for that ship is now over, since you trigger all your abilites for each ship at the same time and rank them in the abilities queue. In Replacement effects:

Quote

Some abilities are substitutive in nature—they replace how an effect would normally resolve. These abilities use the words “would” and “instead.” • Replacement effects are not added to the end of the ability queue as they are resolved at the timing of the effect they are replacing.

Once the ability queue for your ship is over, the next ship gets one. This is shown here:

Quote

During this phase, each ship gets AN opportunity to choose and resolve any abilities that are explicitly resolved during the System Phase.

I think this is clear enough that no FAQ is needed here.

2 minutes ago, Jhiriit said:

I think this is clear enough that no FAQ is needed here.

Looks good. This also satisfies Once Per Opportunity's need for the effect to "resolve." Nicely done.

So, for everybody who is aware of jhirit's logic chain and can follow it, no FAQ is needed. (But you're gonna see this come up a lot, otherwise.)