So, 2 weeks into an RT game, and I havent yet set a formal Endeavor, but the characters are definitely going to make money. The reason is that they took a more Traveller approach of saying "Lets go out into the unknown and find someone to trade with".

So rather than split that into a 3 stage Endeavor of
1. Forge a passage across the Damocles Gulf
2. Discover profitable Worlds & trade
3. Profit! (Survive the return journey and cash in)

I've gone with more of a freeform approach in which profitable opportunities exist and they can seize them as and when they wish. For instance, a xenos world has a tea-analogue called salva, but they havent quite figured out how much it would be worth to them. I dont want some NPC telling them "Stock up on this and get monopoly rights as it'll sell like hotcakes" which is what an Endeavour seems to require- I want them to judge the opportunities themselves.

But... has anyone else had this problem? That the Endeavors are too structured and possibly too artificial? Do you find yourself as the GM having to spell out to the players what hoops they must jump through to be successful or are you using the players instinctive actions and choices and comparing them to an Endeavour plan held only in your head?

SJE

The trick I find works is to create the Endeavors with them, and not to be afraid to recon/modify things. If the PCs choose to do something odd just rewrite the Endeavor terms.

I'd agree with Dalnor. Just write up an endeavor and include all the goals you think they might stumble upon. If they happen to find a few ways to profit you haven't thought of, just assign them a value and put them on the list as well.

I just listen to what the players say and want to do and i build an endeavour after that.

We just started our first "mission". And well, i just let the Rogue trader take the helm and tell me what he wanted to do. He came up with this crazy idea of stealing stuff from the Dynasty of Winterscale. So they started asking around for places run by winterscales(they already have all the installations in place so why not steal them!). So i just then and there made up an endeavor about how it could work.

1. Find an installation run by "winterscales people", secure it and bring in loyal people. (they found an installation in an asteroidbelt that scans it for minerals etc.)

2. Establish mining installations in asteroidbelt. Secure Illegal ways to transport the "stolen" goods. (while feeding false information to winterscales people)

3.???(we will se what happens.)

4.PROFIT!

Depending on how it goes (and what i throw at them)i will decide if it was actually an greater or whatever endeavour.

Yep, Forget about the structured endeavor system, its a crutch for unimaginative people. Its much easier to just think about what your characters are doing naturally and apply them to endeavors on the fly.

LEGION3000 said:

Wow... thanks for that staggering use of sweeping generalisation, especially since you couldn't be more wrong in the majority of circumstances.

You not liking it =/= it being "a crutch for unimaginative people"

IMO, a well structured Endeavor can lead to more freedom for the players. The more time and effort you've put in to creating the Endeavor, the more you can lean on when your players wanna do it their own way. A well prepared GM knows where he wants the players to go, and if they don't want to follow the process he had originally lined out to get them there, the GM will still know enough about the adventure he's prepared to be able to work with their way, while still getting to the same destination.

Have you ever been at school, thinking that you got the teacher way off topic, only to find that it was leading exactly where they wanted to go in the first place? To me, those have always been the most effective teachers, allowing the students to drive the lesson, yet still coming to the same conclusion. Maybe it's a weird comparison, but I think that is the best way for a GM to function.

Make your Endeavors detailed, and you'll end up exactly where you wanted to be, just through a different route, determined by the players.

I've got to agree with Millandson, there is nothing wrong with the endeavor system. It isn't any more of a crutch then experiance points or profit. Some GMs may perfer to run without it, but that doens't make it inharently flawed. GMs and Players need varying amounts of pre-planing inorder to make an effective game. (beleave me, I've had GMs who think they can 'wing it' and can't.) Endeavors are an effective tool for creating such a game, more effective then most game systems have, particularly when weath isn't mesured in treasure hauls but in abstract terms.