I know with the impending official app for X-Wing coming in a few months, many of the indy apps are going to fade away.

But I was curious if, in the meantime, there is one out there that has (or will) imported the cards/points for Second Edition that can be used until the official launch.

It's getting difficult to make adjustments by having reference all the PDFs.

If not, I totally get it with the official app on the horizon. But just thought I'd ask.

And who knows? I'm hopeful the official app is good, but if not, it'd be great to have a few alternatives out there to casually use and plug in lists into the official one for tournaments.

2 hours ago, jwilliamson12 said:

It's getting difficult to make adjustments by having reference all the PDFs.

Well, at last, someone has finally realized that the non-mandatory app will be, for all extents and purposes, mandatory.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, at last, someone has finally realized that the non-mandatory app will be, for all extents and purposes, mandatory.

*sigh* perhaps looking up what mandatory actually means would help your confusion.

If the app stinks, independent devs will fill the void. If it rocks, then good!

7 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

Eh, Meanie just has a bee in his bonnet. He’s usually an okay cat, but his dislike for the changes have caused him to venture into hyperbole in this case.

As for your problem, I don’t know of an app, but there have been some efforts to consolidate information. Not sure if this will be that much easier, but here’s a link to a forum member who’s compiled 2E data like point costs and game text together.

I appreciate your use of the question mark.

5 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Eh, Meanie just has a bee in his bonnet. He’s usually an okay cat, but his dislike for the changes have caused him to venture into hyperbole in this case.

As for your problem, I don’t know of an app, but there have been some efforts to consolidate information. Not sure if this will be that much easier, but here’s a link to a forum member who’s compiled 2E data like point costs and game text together.

Got it, thanks! And yup, I've kept that bookmarked for now.

I created a Google spreadsheet for now. It has four pages: Rebel pilots, Imperial, Scum, and then a faction-specific upgrade page, and a generic page.

I was feeling ambitious and tried to create picklists in cells next to each pilot that a) let you select upgrades and b) ran a value check for the points.

But man. I got in over my head quick.

So in that regard, thank you to all of you super smart dev people who have made this game easier for people like me. I can't imagine this game without software anyways. And that has largely gone unnoticed by me until last week.

7 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

I appreciate your use of the question mark.

lol. I a) didn't see that thread and b) therefore didn't see your comment.

But you're welcome. Punctuation adds clarity!?.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

*sigh* perhaps looking up what mandatory actually means would help your confusion.

Well, I did say "for all extents and purposes."

28 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Eh, Meanie just has a bee in his bonnet.

Yeah, I can't disagree with that. BUT, for all of us that have groused about XWM now requiring a phone/computer/wifi connection, etc., and the response being "duh, just print out the PDF"

17 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

But man. I got in over my head quick.

this is the real-world test-and-fail.

You'll want to app so bad that you pretty much need the app.

And @sirjorj is doing some great work, but alas, it isn't a builder.

13 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, I did say "for all extents and purposes."

Yeah, I can't disagree with that. BUT, for all of us that have groused about XWM now requiring a phone/computer/wifi connection, etc., and the response being "duh, just print out the PDF"

this is the real-world test-and-fail.

You'll want to app so bad that you pretty much need the app.

And @sirjorj is doing some great work, but alas, it isn't a builder.

But it isn’t “for all extents and purposes” mandatory. Using the pdf may be more combersome than you would like, but that doesn’t magically mean that the app is the only way to build lists. Again, look up what mandatory actually means. Once you do, you will clearly see that the app isn’t, for all extents and purposes, mandatory because other options do exist and are supported.

Even with your disclaimer, your post is stretching the truth to justify your stance. You are better than that, Meanie.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

this is the real-world test-and-fail.

It's "a" real-world test-and-fail, it's not "the" real-world test-and-fail.

I've made force lists with only this much information before, and will again. Only thing holding me back right now is I haven't yet learned the 2.0 cards. Everybody has gotten spoiled by squad builders... Pencil and a paper is really all you need with that PDF. Well, and the cards to use on the table after you've built your list.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

It's "a" real-world test-and-fail, it's not "the" real-world test-and-fail.

I've made force lists with only this much information before, and will again. Only thing holding me back right now is I haven't yet learned the 2.0 cards. Everybody has gotten spoiled by squad builders... Pencil and a paper is really all you need with that PDF. Well, and the cards to use on the table after you've built your list.

I will agree that PDF/written lists will get easier as we mentally absorb the abilities and costs. It won't make it the preferred option for me, but it will get easier for those who choose to do it that way.

I certainly won't be one of them, though.

2 minutes ago, jwilliamson12 said:

I certainly won't be one of them, though.

That's certainly fair. Preferred being the key word, but I can respect holding back for the software by choice.

I'm showing my age a bit, but I recall building battletech rosters by hand with little more than a book listing battle values (points) for each variant of 'mech. I've even built custom 'mechs by using a pencil, paper and calculator with the open book in front of me. (I've done it without the calculator, but I won't mention how many times I messed up the calculations... they were fiddly...)

51 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But it isn’t “for all extents and purposes” mandatory.

Again, look up what mandatory actually means.

Even with your disclaimer, your post is stretching the truth to justify your stance. You are better than that, Meanie.

Well, my English could be better, in any event.

Yeah, I know what mandatory means, so we got that covered.

OTOH, what I am trying to say is "for all intents and purposes" which them means "for all practical purposes" or "virtually."

So, no, it's not mandatory, but life will suck a whole lot without it.

**

At this stage of the game, I'm kind of wary about independent support. First of all, is FFG going to be cool with that, now that they have created an "official" platform? Secondly, I've seen way to many private projects that I start to real on go belly up simply because the developer gets tired of XWM and walks away from the project. And, in the long haul, this could be XWM's fate, too. At least the app will be downloadable, so there's that.

There are several 1.0 projects I would really have like to see reach their "final form," but I've been left hanging by the "why bother" sentiment as a direct result of 2.0. Since I'm not very tech saavy, there is nothing I can do about it once I'm tied to electronica. Hence my apiary issues.

14 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So  , no  , it's not mandatory, but life will suck a whole lot without it.

It’s the same with 1.0 though. Let’s not forget that FFG never had any sort of offical builder, so without the good efforts of programmers who happen to have an interest in the hobby, we all would have been doing calcs by hand.

Sooo... I guess it’s mandatory in that it’s a clear improvement over that alternative where no builder exists at all?

I will say though that there is a possibility that FFGs app just plain sucks, and it turns out it’s not much better to use than doing calcs by hand, especially for special rule sets.

If that happens, guarantee one of those who have taken the time to create a 1.0 builder will bite the bullet and make a 2.0 builder.

Either way, as of right now, a stop way gap 2.0 builder would be nice.

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, no, it's not mandatory, but life will suck a whole lot without it.

I don't think I ever built a list with just the cards in 1.0. I always used an app. I would guess that the majority of people also used an app for 1.0 list building. Especially since the FAQ constantly made the physical cards WRONG.

13 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

First of all, is FFG going to be cool with that, now that they have created an "official" platform?

FFG welcomes modifications and officially support this (ie the mission builder). As for 3rd party apps, all of those are in copyright violation. So it depends if Disney wants to do something about them.

15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Secondly, I've seen way to many private projects that I start to real on go belly up simply because the developer gets tired of XWM and walks away from the project.

Are you funding the project? If all you get is volunteers, that is to be expected. Pay the workers, and they will stick around.

16 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

There are several 1.0 projects I would really have like to see reach their "final form," but I've been left hanging by the "why bother" sentiment as a direct result of 2.0. Since I'm not very tech saavy, there is nothing I can do about it once I'm tied to electronica. Hence my apiary issues.

As I suggested before, pay the workers, or learn how to do it yourself.

5 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

It’s  the same with 1.0  though.

Actually, I’ll walk this back. It’s different because the costs were on the cards before, and now you have an extra step to find the card on the pdf as well. A bit more cumbersome for sure.

Once we have cards in hand though, a quick reference to the pdf while doing a hands on build wouldn’t be the end of the world I’d presume.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, my English could be better, in any event.

Yeah, I know what mandatory means, so we got that covered.

OTOH, what I am trying to say is "for all intents and purposes" which them means "for all practical purposes" or "virtually."

So, no, it's not mandatory, but life will suck a whole lot without it.

That will depend on individuals and their attitude towards it. As has already been stated, familiarity with what the cards will help streamline the use of the pdfs. Even just having the cards in hand will help. And that’s not even covering other tricks for further streamlining the process.

Let’s look at the card binder method of storage. With a simple label sticker, you can write down point costs and other info and stick it to the appropriate card slot. That is a bit of a time investment to begin with to fill out the labels, but once it is done, you have a simple way to streamline squad building that might even be found easier by those who aren’t that comfortable with electronic list building. Occasional updates will be needed, but they should be scheduled, thus easier to accommodate with decent planning.

So, I cannot really agree that not using the app “will suck a whole lot” as one can make using the PDFs “suck” less with just a little effort.

36 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Hence my apiary   issues.

The app made you afraid of bees?

1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

Actually, I’ll walk this back. It’s different because the costs were on the cards before, and now you have an extra step to find the card on the pdf as well. A bit more cumbersome for sure.

Exactly.

57 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

familiarity with what the cards will help streamline the use of the pdfs.

Well, that depends on how much things change. "Familiarity" could be a bad thing if you are familiar with an older version of the card.

Listen, if I play 2.0 I'll definitely be using the app. My main point is that the PDF is not going to be the Hail Mary alternative everyone has previously touted it to be.

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to suck more than XWM1.0 for list building.

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Exactly.

Well, that depends on how much things change. "Familiarity" could be a bad thing if you are familiar with an older version of the card.

Listen, if I play 2.0 I'll definitely be using the app. My main point is that the PDF is not going to be the Hail Mary alternative everyone has previously touted it to be.

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to suck more than XWM1.0 for list building.

Let's not forgot that it's not just a phone app, but an online app. If you have online access to the PDFs, you have a computer to access the online app builder. I'm sure there will be a way to print off lists in the same way that YASB does.

If you don't have regular access to a computer or smartphone, then yeah, the problem might be insurmountable unless you're sticking with Quick Builds.

54 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, that depends on how much things change. "Familiarity" could be a bad thing if you are familiar with an older version of the card.

Listen, if I play 2.0 I'll definitely be using the app. My main point is that the PDF is not going to be the Hail Mary alternative everyone has previously touted it to be.

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to suck more than XWM1.0 for list building.

That’s fair. It is going to be more difficult than building in 1E. And I can understand if you don’t think the PDFs do as good a job as you want. But it is still a workable option for those who want it. You might not think it’s a Hail Mary, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an alternative. One that can be made more palatable with personal effort.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to suck more than XWM1.0 for list building.

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to rock more than XWM1.0 for list flying, and I expect a lot of that will be because of the ability to change points via the app/pdf

19 minutes ago, Handler said:

If you don't want to/can't use the app, XWM2.0 is going to rock more than XWM1.0 for list flying, and I expect a lot of that will be because of the ability to change points via the app/pdf

3 hours ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

Are you funding the project? If all you get is volunteers, that is to be expected. Pay the workers, and they will stick around.

As I suggested before, pay the workers, or learn how to do it yourself.

I offered to become a Patreon, so yes, I was willing to fund the project. But if the dev don't give a ****, then the dev don't give a ****.

And if I wanted to learn how to program well enough to create complex code and interfaces, I would have done it a long time ago, and not just for one silly game.