12 hours ago, Jike said:

I think the idea of graded costing was another one of those things people thought was promised but I'm not sure FFG ever actually said they were going to do it. It looks like they're going to restrict things more along the lines of Engine Upgrade, where only 1-2 big ships can take it so when you see a cost for EU on a big ship that might as well read "Millennium Falcon" instead of Large Ship. They should definitely add version numbers though.

As far as the meta goes, it does take a little bit away from the excitement of having everything drop on the 13th but with a community as large as we have the meta was always going to be shaped pretty quickly anyway. If more ships are viable than previously I think we might see more variety though and it is still my hope that flying skill will matter more than it does in 1st edition so everything won't just be about putting as many broken upgrades on the most broken ship.

FFG did clearly state in the announcement articles that graded costs were now going to be part of the game. (it was in one of the official demo videos). This is largely what spawned outrage from people like myself who will not be using apps to play, as it meant squad building basically wasn't possible without multiple spreadsheets and a notepad. Before toxicity drove most of us off the boards we were calling for that aspect to be removed entirely(variable squad costs), so maybe FFG realized that this was a problem and axed it before launch?

who knows until final release. I will say this though, i'm only checking the boards lately to see if the app as an essential requirement to play has been removed because I'd like to continue playing. I literally play mini games to get away from computers and screens and spend time with like minded nerds, and the idea that FFG has changed course so I can continue to do that is really exciting! heres hoping

2 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

FFG did clearly state in the announcement articles that graded costs were now going to be part of the game. (it was in one of the official demo videos). This is largely what spawned outrage from people like myself who will not be using apps to play, as it meant squad building basically wasn't possible without multiple spreadsheets and a notepad. Before toxicity drove most of us off the boards we were calling for that aspect to be removed entirely(variable squad costs), so maybe FFG realized that this was a problem and axed it before launch?

who knows until final release. I will say this though, i'm only checking the boards lately to see if the app as an essential requirement to play has been removed because I'd like to continue playing. I literally play mini games to get away from computers and screens and spend time with like minded nerds, and the idea that FFG has changed course so I can continue to do that is really exciting! heres hoping

The app was never required, there was always going to be PDF support.

11 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

, i'm only checking the boards lately to see if the app as an essential requirement to play

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The app was never required, there was always going to be PDF support.

As is being discussed elsewhere, using the PDF is kind of a pain in the ***:

I mean, maybe you like cross-referencing the Faction-Specific Points list, the Generic-Upgrades Points list, Your cards, and then writing all that out on a Steno pad. . .

Otherwise, you're gonna want (need) the app.

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

As is being discussed elsewhere, using the PDF is kind of a pain in the ***:

How so? You find the cards you want to use, look up the costs, and then tweak as needed. How is it so terribly different from the costs being on the cards, apart from being much easier for FFG to change?

Just now, JJ48 said:

How so? You find the cards you want to use, look up the costs, and then tweak as needed. How is it so terribly different from the costs being on the cards, apart from being much easier for FFG to change?

mostly that it's very difficult to scan through the cards with their text AND their costs at the same time.

I can see the issue, I've not really bothered trying much list building yet, for that reason.

18 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

How so? You find the cards you want to use, look up the costs, and then tweak as needed. How is it so terribly different from the costs being on the cards, apart from being much easier for FFG to change?

Well, you went from "grab cards and add them up" to "grab faction PDF, grab other generic PDF, write down points, write down upgrade symbols, grab cards, and add them up."

So, pretty different, I'd say.

And cumbersome enough that people are wanting another way to do it already.

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, you went from "grab cards and add them up" to "grab faction PDF, grab other generic PDF, write down points, write down upgrade symbols, grab cards, and add them up."

So, pretty different, I'd say.

And cumbersome enough that people are wanting another way to do it already.

Or you can wait of the official release and do lists on the app.

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, you went from "grab cards and add them up" to "grab faction PDF, grab other generic PDF, write down points, write down upgrade symbols, grab cards, and add them up."

So, pretty different, I'd say.

And cumbersome enough that people are wanting another way to do it already.

Tabbing through 3 pdfs (current rule book, faction pdfs and generic pdf) and a card list web site can get to be a pain so I can see the desire for having a single app. Which is why I'm looking forwards to the release of the app.

7 minutes ago, redki said:

Or you can wait of the official release and do lists on the app.

Well, I can only reiterate that some people didn't want to be forced to list build on an app.

So sure, technically you don't need the app, but if you don't use the app you probably will not want to list build either.

9 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, you went from "grab cards and add them up" to "grab faction PDF, grab other generic PDF, write down points, write down upgrade symbols, grab cards, and add them up."

So, pretty different, I'd say.

And cumbersome enough that people are wanting another way to do it already.

So, once the pdfs have stabilized, print them out and keep them with your cards. I honestly don't get why this is such a big deal.

Just now, redki said:

Or you can wait of the official release and do lists on the app.

But he doesn’t want to. And according to FFG, he didn’t have to. That’s what he takes issue with.

FFG offered this as an alternative, so he has a right to be frustrated if list building is more cumbersome for his preferred way of list building in 2.0 than it was in 1.0.

Yes, in the perfect world everyone would jump on board with the app, and all would have easy access to it, and no one would struggle using it as efficiently as possible.

Reality doesn’t work that way though.

Just now, JJ48 said:

So, once the pdfs have stabilized, print them out and keep them with your cards. I honestly don't get why this is such a big deal.

From what we understand they will not be fully 'stabilized' till the last expansion for 2.0 has released.

6 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

So, once the pdfs have stabilized, print them out and keep them with your cards. I honestly don't get why this is such a big deal.

Obviously that "2-step process" vs. "6-step process" thingy didn't mean much to you.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Obviously that "2-step process" vs. "6-step process" thingy didn't mean much to you.

When the extra steps are very easily worked around? Not at all.

They’ve said the points will only be updated 2-3 times a year, so a printout is good for 4-6 months. Even when something IS updated, it won’t likely be very many things that change, so writing in the changes on an old printout should work through 4-5 updates, so one print out will probably be perfectly usable for 2-3 YEARS. That’s probably what I’m going to do. Yeah, it’s a little bit more cumbersome than having the points on the cards, but the benefits VASTLY outweigh the minor inconvenience.

9 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

a printout is good for 4-6 months.

My first printout was good 4-6 hours.

27 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

From what we understand they will not be fully 'stabilized' till the last expansion for 2.0 has released.

You're confusing "stabilized" with "finalized". Yes, the pdfs are living documents and won't be 100% complete until the game ends, but there will likely be a time when they reach what I call "stable", and won't be likely to change for several months, at least.

28 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

They’ve said the points will only be updated 2-3 times a year, so a printout is good for 4-6 months. Even when something IS updated, it won’t likely be very many things that change, so writing in the changes on an old printout should work through 4-5 updates, so one print out will probably be perfectly usable for 2-3 YEARS. That’s probably what I’m going to do. Yeah, it’s a little bit more cumbersome than having the points on the cards, but the benefits VASTLY outweigh the minor inconvenience.

Pretty similar to what GW is doing with 40k 8e.

This might be a work-around/solution for folks not wanting to use the app. You can place little removable dot labels that you write the current point value onto your cards. Sleeve them too, if that's your thing.

10 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

This might be a work-around/solution for folks not wanting to use the app. You can place little removable dot labels that you write the current point value onto your cards. Sleeve them too, if that's your thing.

I suppose another option would be to redo every single card in Strange Eons as a 1.0 card with the Upgrade slots and Points added back.

OTOH, having this game turn me into a graphic design major was not what I had in mind for relaxation.

So, to everyone who doesn't want to use the app and who also finds printed paper to be tedious, what exactly were you hoping for, or what do you think would be a good alternative? They've already decided they're not printing prices on the cards anymore, so what option is everyone missing that you would be happy with?

All I can say is that if the biggest complaint so far is that a handful of people don't want to carry around an electronic device or a few pieces of paper then the game is in great shape!

Also you dont have to carry around an electronic device or paper. Just build your list at home and take with you the miniatures and cards. Youll have enough inconveniences walking around without a cellphone to worry about the app for a game.

2 hours ago, JJ48 said:

They've already decided they're not printing prices on the cards anymore, so what option is everyone missing that you would be happy with?

Well, one option would be "E Cards" that have all of the relevant "missing" information, are not usable in a tournament, but could be printed out as a resource.

If they used a file like you get from Strange Eons, corrections/adjustments are simple enough, and could be made into a mutable PDF. Then, the cards are meshed with the PDF, as a PDF, but in a visual format that is similar to the playing components BUT with all the relevant info in one place. They might have to make the format bigger (4x6?), but that's hardly an issue since FFG won't be printing them ever.

Seriously, the point of the PDF should be to support players who would rather not use the app. I expected something like the pages of errata-ed cards in the old FAQs. The current PDF files look like Equipment Lists from the 1st Edition Player's Handbook. FFG can do better.

I agree a pdf with the cards ready to print would be nice. Then you can print them yourself and use the latest version for erratas. As long as you have the original as proof, theres no problem.

But then.. how ofter are cards erratad here?

19 hours ago, Jike said:

I think the idea of graded costing was another one of those things people thought was promised but I'm not sure FFG ever actually said they were going to do it. It looks like they're going to restrict things more along the lines of Engine Upgrade, where only 1-2 big ships can take it so when you see a cost for EU on a big ship that might as well read "Millennium Falcon" instead of Large Ship.

To use your EU example, it allows FFG to have redundancy on future ships.

Lets say the Gauntlet Fighter is a Large Base ship. They may not want it to have a white boost, so they dont give it a red boost action so they can give it a modification slot. But may have a baked in ability that allows you to take a red boost

I would rather FFG think of the future now, rather than have the plethora of fixes and OP card releases that 1.0 had.