14 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Having to fix the data has absolutely no bearing on whether the app is done, just as a typo in an article doesn't mean the website's broken.

My statement that you quoted had more to do with the lack of attention to detail that caused them to release bad data than the data itself.

Regarding the app as an interface, you are correct. But that's not the whole scope of the app project. Spitting out accurate data is a main intended use.

They most likely pushed the pdf out to keep Gencon people happy. Sounds silly but companies have pandered to early adopters before. There is literally 0 reason the pdf should even exist right now save 2. Gencon people crying they couldn’t get a jump on everyone else and ffg realizing they ultimately can’t playtest as well as obcessed table nerds and want them to shake the bugs out. Other than that was no reason to do this and it does look sloppy and rushed in areas. This is the biggest reason I really wish ffg would quit this early release bs.

We can't even properly play test without the RRG so if that was their reasoning, it's still flawed.

Really, the reason is to appease the hype-hungry creatures like myself.

2 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

We can't even properly play test without the RRG so if that was their reasoning, it's still flawed.

Really, the reason is to appease the hype-hungry creatures like myself.

Maybe but they can seriously narrow the field if the boards light up with “we need a ruling on this now!” Having 1000’s of eyes on something, even an incomplete something can drastically improve your tuning efforts.

3 hours ago, ViscerothSWG said:

This isn't their first app.

This isn't their first star wars app.

This isn't their first product release.

Anything about release date is obviously conjecture based on product release as we don't know what official date they set.

But I now realize apps are super hard, and licensing agreements are impossibly complex so their professional app development team should be given all the slack if they don't have it ready for consumption the day that the new product goes on sale (today), or even when it hits general release in a month or two from now. Thinking that they would plan for all components of their product to release together and on time when they are the ones setting the schedule for what on time means is just unrealistic on my part.

And I will be super patient and forgiving if it doesn't work on my devices for whatever reason for any amount of time after that, or for any content errors therein (such as those the pdf had in its first release). Such potential delays are unknown unknowns that the project manager had no chance to plan for, and their previous release lessons learned documents didn't cover such unexpected circumstances.

I apologize to ffg for my clearly unrealistic expectations of competent project planning and execution. I promise to expect less in the future. Because some things are just hard to do.

Maybe I should practice saying "it's a feature not a bug", and "Soon" as I used to when [not] expecting things from SOE.

Considering what full-time software developers cost, I highly doubt FFG has a professional app development team. It's far more likely they contract that out (though they likely use the same contractor for all their apps). That contracting company is certainly managing multiple projects (including multiple from FFG), so is managing their resources based on expected due dates. The X-Wing squad builder app is due for release in September. At this stage, they're likely working on testing and debugging of the app, and getting their ducks in a row for pushing it through the release process for the multiple platforms they are supporting. They wouldn't have completed the project and had everything ready to go before now, because they would be working on multiple things, several of which (not necessarily for FFG) would have had earlier due dates, so would have been prioritized. Which does, in fact, require competent project planning and execution.

As a software engineer, I can tell you - we never get to work on only one thing at a time. That's been true when I've worked at 1000+ employee companies and when I've worked at < 10 employee companies.

4 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Considering  what full-time software developers cost, I highly doubt FFG has a professional app development tea  m   .

In fact Asmodee have a digital department with a few announcements on Thursday. The LotR LCG adaptation is being done by them and, according to the SUSD guys doing the panel, there's at least one interesting thing coming.

https://www.gencon.com/events/144016

But yeah, they did mention that the X-Wing app has been outsourced. Probably for the best with some of the functionality they've talked about.

I'm going to be a bit controversial with my opinion but then offer a solution so the problem presented.

So here's what I think about it being cumbersome to use the PDFs. It is rather cumbersome but not impossible to create a list there's just more you have to reference as people have stated many times, people like @Kdubb , @Darth Meanie and @Vontoothskie . You have no argument from me there, this isn't the old days where you can just grab your cards and build.

This is the cost of having a fluid point and upgrade slot system. FFG was clear from day one that the point of removing this information from the cards was to not have outdated information and people turning up with potentially illegal lists because they didn't check online sources. There is a reason behind the fact it is now more complicated to build lists and that we have to use reference.

My response to the belly-aching is quite simple: Tough ****. FFG introduces a new initiative that overall is better for the health of the game (supposedly) yet the cost of that is changing how we get point cost and slots. FFG knew this would be more complicated and so the solution was to introduce an app to streamline the process.

The app is not required, but it does make things easier as most technology does. Don't give me wrong, I have sympathy for someone who has no access to a smart-phone, the internet, a computer, a landline, a telegraph, smoke signals, writing implement and yes even a friend who could potentially loan you access to their app. They don't have a choice, they have to get the PDF printed out or find another way to get the information. That is an unfortunate sacrifice.

You three and anyone else on this forum gets no sympathy from me because by being here it's quite clear you have at least access to the internet and a device that can in some way access the app or this program. Therefore the choice of not using the app to make things easier for you is exactly that: a choice. You've been instructed to dig a trench and instead of using the digger that has been provided to you, your choice is to say "No! I would rather dig using a good ol' shovel like we've done for hundreds of years." and then you act surprised and with outrage when it takes you longer to do so. No sympathy from me one iota, it is your own stubbornness that is causing the issue here and not FFG. (Note, this is me specifically addressing Vontoothskie's comment of "I f i can't play without the app, I won't be playing." I understand that right now there is no other way to build lists, but it also hasn't stopped you two from jumping on people regarding the app)

Even if there are other factors at play, such as not wanting to use the app when out and about. Make your lists at home and then take them pre-built to a tournament or a game night or if you are that desperate for a game after cracking open your new expansion actually use the quick build cards. It is not hard to come up with a solution on your own rather than have FFG bend over backwards even more than they already have. I think it was great of them to actually release a PDF and not just say "Nah, you HAVE to use the app" sure it is more cumbersome not to, but they never said it would be easier to use the app or easy in general, just that you didn't have to use the app and that is true, you do not need to use the app.

I mean, @Force Majeure had a fantastic idea that I am actually thinking of doing myself since I did occasionally build lists at a game night; Get some white removable dot stickers, sleeve your card and then on the sleeve put one of the stickers and just write in the points cost of the card. Want to do upgrade slots, shove some on the back of a ship cards sleeve with info on what slots the ship has.

I get it, you're frustrated that technology is encroaching in on your game, but it is done with reason and the company has provided means of getting around the need for technology. Being grumpy old men about it just makes you look like complete *** holes, the kind of people I would not want on the opposite side of a gaming table.

As for the app not being out right now. As far as I am concerned the release date of the product is September 13th. GenCon is a pre-release, I'll say it again a pre-release as in before it is released meaning the product is not out, meaning that the outsourced company designing an incredibly complicated app has until September 13th to finish their app. That being said, I would make sure you have the PDF downloaded or points costs memorised as I expect the few days if not the first week of release will be very shaky for the app, tends to be the way any app release works.

50 minutes ago, Ebak said:

[stuff]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:13 AM, Vontoothskie said:

I did not say the app was being required by rules in my comment. you implying that I did was very strange and seems passive aggressive.

I did I did say playing without the app seems difficult and will require a costly and time consuming process.

thats a poignant issue for many of us.

If there are variable squad point costs then a pdf is going to be a complete nightmare to understand, and people will effectively be using algabraic equations to make lists. even if there are not variable costs its going to be incredibly time consuming to print, sort and update several hundred cards on a bi-monthly basis, and players will be forced to fact check eachothers lists. in 1.0 there are over 200 pilot cards alone, and I'm betting designers intend to use the apps potential for more complex interactions at some point, so this PDF needs to be really user friendly if its going to work at all

Costly? Time-consuming? I'm not sure I understand how those apply here. Also, are we really comparing having to cross-reference 3-4 upgrades that have variable points cost to algebraic equations now? Is this how low the bar is before some people switch off? Also, what do you mean by bi-monthly? FFG has never released X-Wing waves so close together, as far as I recall. As with a lot of your posts since 2nd edition was announced this feels like you're trying really hard to find flaws where they just don't exist.

As for other people's complaints about the app not being out, that's just absurd. The release date is the 13th of September. The app will launch on the 13th of September. This was announced a long time ago now and confirmed multiple times since. The app not being released until then isn't a sign of FFG being slow, lazy or hating us all.