@ficklegreendice would be glad to tell you how easy it is to hit Vader in 2.0 Especially now that the evade action has been nerfed on TIE Advances for 2.0 (by removing them).

Vader looks like a fun pilot, but his cost is going to be his downfall. I think I'd rather just take Soontir and save 30+ points.

A 3 dice attack with focus against your 4 dice with focus has a 27% change of doing damage. That goes up to close to 50% if they have a TL as well or can get a 4 dice shot (range 1, ordnance or just a 4 dice ship). You were facing a good match up for you (only 2 ships, both not I6). Yet I'm still surprised the Dash player wasn't able to get damage through, they just need to correctly predict a couple times, each shot is a 50% chance of breaking stealth.

Your Vader is close to 100 points. Yes, it's a little hard to catch, but ultimately it's only got 1 re-position. first edition Kylo is much harder to catch, and yet people do manage to get shots on Kylo.

I'm taking this less as a discouraging sign of Vader being busted and as a more encouraging sign that Dash won't see play

47 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I'm taking this less as a discouraging sign of Vader being busted and as a more encouraging sign that Dash won't see play

I'm hoping he's just bad in 2.0. I think the red barrel roll, massive cost, and change to mobile arc will hurt him enough so he rarely sees play.

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Most players think 1.0 Kylo is bad to.

He is certainly broken (unless we are talking about the many b-class fun builds), but most don't notice it until facing him because of all the more egregiously broken mechanics that are easier to leverage offered by different ships. Perfect arc-dodgers will not be permitted for long in second edition, as there is no such viable thing as a perfect turret.

As for Supernatural Reflexes on Vader: yes, in proxy games it is worth it to self damage for the boost. Definitely, as you become much slippier and avoid more damage in general. I think that it will soon gain a price that is related to Force Capacity, such that it becomes cheaper and more fun on Ezra's TIE but forbids a viable transformation of Vader into his emo grandson.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I'm taking this less as a discouraging sign of Vader being busted and as a more encouraging sign that Dash won't see play

Biased profile pic checks out ( :])-}-<

Stealth Device plus some arc dodging tricks make Vader very tough to hit, yes. He's tough to deny actions against because he can pre-move BR to avoid bumps. But even with an effective 4 Agility he still can't modify blank green dice so any 3-dice fully modded shot is scary for him, as is weight of fire because he'll run out of tokens eventually. He's also 90 points with those 2 upgrades, so he probably should be very good.

I think the defining feature of 2nd edition in general is going to be the lack of "get out of jail free" upgrades. Things like Guidance Chips, K4 Security Droid, Palpatine, Autothrusters all gave you ways to get around fluffed dice rolls, which directly led to frustrating game experiences. We've all had games where your opponent has rolled evade/blank/blank/blank on a ship then used Autothrusters, Evade token and Palp to get 3 evades and avoid your shot. Or got that perfect bump only for K4 and Expertise to make it irrelevant. In 2nd edition your dice will blank out on you and there will be very little you can do about is so I'm really not too worried about unkillable Vader. Seems like a good example of an expensive, high risk, high reward ship to me.

11 hours ago, evcameron said:

A 3 dice attack with focus against your 4 dice with focus has a 27% change of doing damage. That goes up to close to 50% if they have a TL as well or can get a 4 dice shot (range 1, ordnance or just a 4 dice ship). You were facing a good match up for you (only 2 ships, both not I6). Yet I'm still surprised the Dash player wasn't able to get damage through, they just need to correctly predict a couple times, each shot is a 50% chance of breaking stealth.

Your Vader is close to 100 points. Yes, it's a little hard to catch, but ultimately it's only got 1 re-position. first edition Kylo is much harder to catch, and yet people do manage to get shots on Kylo.

First edition has a lot of double-mod 4 dice attacks.

Youre right about the math, but double-mod is pretty rare. The problem with dash is he’s usually at 3 dice against Vader if he has a shot at all. Once Vader closes its hard to get away, especially with blockers.

It may that Dash just isn’t the guy. Some other list I didn’t face probably does a better job of it.

20 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

I’ve played about a dozen games of 2e now with Vader and some strikers. I’ve only lost stealth device in 2 games, both due to landing on a rock and losing my actions.

But under normal circumstances Vader w/stealth is kind of too good. What are people doing to reliably pop that bubble?

Seyn Marana with Marksmanship should, with fair reliability, generate Crits to proc her ability and she only costs 31 points. Pair her with Gideon Hask to proc his ability and go hunt aces. She'll just be good for hunting anything with a Stealth Device, really, not just Vader, then Gideon will munch on anything she shoots at. Throw Del in if it's a turreted or jousting ship for extra defense and Iden to negate the Alpha or unlikely bad dice... Oh wait, there's Inferno Squadron. ?

Kestal could likely be a solid ace hunter as well, but I'm unsure that her turret will be any good anytime soon. I'll probably put Missiles on her if anything and go a-hunting that way. She should be able to keep up with the Advanced just fine. You could run her as Vader's wingman with BT-1 as her Gunner for some wack shenanigans with missiles since a lot of people will probably be using linked actions as much as they can out of the gate in 2.0.

10 hours ago, CRCL said:

I'm hoping he's just bad in 2.0. I think the red barrel roll, massive cost, and change to mobile arc will hurt him enough so he rarely sees play.

I can see Dash not getting much table time, but Leebo with no upgrades works pretty well even at 98. His ability is so good.

I've got it! Sunny Bounder with Homing Missiles in the Library!

Seismic Charges seem like they'll at least give Vader something of a rough time. Drop a bomb somewhere that it can hit two or more obstacles, and then pick the one that will actually hurt Vader at the end of activation.

On 7/29/2018 at 9:42 PM, ficklegreendice said:

I'm taking this less as a discouraging sign of Vader being busted and as a more encouraging sign that Dash won't see play

Is he Initiative 6?

Yeah he won't be seeing play.

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 4:16 PM, Praetorate of the Empire said:

Seyn Marana with Marksmanship should, with fair reliability, generate Crits to proc her ability and she only costs 31 points. Pair her with Gideon Hask to proc his ability and go hunt aces. She'll just be good for hunting anything with a Stealth Device, really, not just Vader, then Gideon will munch on anything she shoots at.

True, but that does require you to boresight an ace that doesn't want you to do so. Her ability is devastating, but appropriately hard to trigger.

Also, might be worth checking the rules definition of "suffering damage" when the rules ref surfaces, because (unlike, say, proton bombs) Seyn still does the 'just assign a face-down damage card' thing. A pilot hit by her definitely qualifies as 'damaged' (because it has one or more damage cards) but does it 'suffer damage'?

If not, as in 1.0, it won't pop the stealth device.

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:17 AM, PhantomFO said:

Seismic Charges seem like they'll at least give Vader something of a rough time. Drop a bomb somewhere that it can hit two or more obstacles, and then pick the one that will actually hurt Vader at the end of activation.

Seismics are a very nicely flexible bomb. The potential 'attack zone' if you drop them inside a tight cluster can be huge.

Vader isn't really scary. Take 4 Y-wings with Ion turrets and thermal detonators, for instance. Run a board edge, and Vader either loses on final salvo or has to try and tank 4 3-die shots and risk being ionised near the board edge.

3 hours ago, Astech said:

Vader isn't really scary. Take 4 Y-wings with Ion turrets and thermal detonators, for instance. Run a board edge, and Vader either loses on final salvo or has to try and tank 4 3-die shots and risk being ionised near the board edge.

Wrong version? Thermal Detonators aren't in 2.0 yet. 4 Y-Wings with Ion could be obnoxious, but their turret is R1-2 single arc only and Vader should be able to just hang out at Range 3 and start landing crits after a couple rounds of fire.

And this is super boring and lame. And doesn't take into account the rest of the Imperial list, which could be up to 4 ships.

I'm surprised no one is mentioning Wedge. In 6, strips an agility. Could be a good counter to Vader.

Also, I'm curious what the Dash players had equipped. Trick Shot/Outrider is chucking 5 dice at a time.

Solved: Jan Ors w/intimidation and title

Dash w/Feedback

season to taste

Vader just melts.

1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

I'm surprised no one is mentioning Wedge. In 6, strips an agility. Could be a good counter to Vader.

Also, I'm curious what the Dash players had equipped. Trick Shot/Outrider is chucking 5 dice at a time.

6 with Jan

4 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

6 with Jan

OH MY GOSH

39 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Solved: Jan Ors w/intimidation and title

Dash w/Feedback

season to taste

Vader just melts.

Only downside is Dash has to be in Jan's arc. And feedback sucks, lol.

3 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

Only downside is Dash has to be in Jan's arc. And feedback sucks, lol.

Feedback pops stealth when he gets into range 1. It’s completely worth it if you’re seeing a lot of stealth Vaders or if defenders are getting into range 1 with focus/evade.