Hello! To start off, I know there is probably a page about this, but I figured I'd just ask for simplicity sake. Could some one tell me what advantages the tie phantom has in 2.0 versus its 1.0 counterpart? I have heard that it is better, and I have heard that it is far worse. Could some one explain? Thanks!

Worse: less attack dice, no post-attack cloak.

Better: higher relative initiative, especially for the named pilots. MUCH more affordably costed. Stygium ability is built in and allows for WILD movement shenanigans via reliable decloaking at the beginning of each round.

14 minutes ago, BrotherFett said:

Hello! To start off, I know there is probably a page about this, but I figured I'd just ask for simplicity sake. Could some one tell me what advantages the tie phantom has in 2.0 versus its 1.0 counterpart? I have heard that it is better, and I have heard that it is far worse. Could some one explain? Thanks!

It's worse, in that you can't take on entire lists with Echo, Whisper, and a 14 point bid (This was a thing. Putting a tie fighter in would just bleed MoV). Mostly because it no longer has an abnormal amount of firepower combined with incredible defense against lower PS pilots.

The generic Phantoms have improved in that the extra hull combined with a fusion of the two phantom mods makes them more survivable (a significant points drop helps too when you factor in the hybrid mod being built in). The named Phantoms aren't better exactly. As their defense, offense, and mobility don't skew as wildly, though, they'll hopefully be easier to balance (And thus avoid being Nightmarisly Meta-Warping or Competitivelt extinct).

Whisper at 52 points will be very playable. The other pilots have reasonable but conservative points costs. But Whisper is still clearly the best. Cloaking is a neat mechanic, will be glad to see it back in play. Also of note, a hull upgrade for Whisper will only be 5 points. At that price it's near auto-include.

The main reason the Phantom isn't completely screwed by the various nerfs it's taken in 2nd edition is the cost is now much more reasonable. The Initiative being fixed is also a big help to the named pilots. So while the Phantom looks a lot worse, it's now priced at around the same level as an X-Wing and it compares pretty favourably there: not quite as durable but with more arc-dodging potential and a crew slot which can be very useful. I think of all the ships in the game the Phantom is one of the ones that's changed the most between editions. Ships like Defenders and the YT-2400 changed quite a bit but they still do pretty much what they always did before. The Phantom's role has changed but that's fine because it fills a niche the Empire was lacking before - a decent mid-priced fighter (the Advanced was, and continues to be, pretty bad).

Now the phantom is affordable, my bet is you won't fly it like before ( to make give incredible damage ). With talent slot and crew, the sigma scadron ace for example is an afordable (46) suport platform that I may keep cloacked in early game, and let do damage after some rounds.

The tricky part is that I'll have to fly my phantom very differently, and this need training.

@BrotherFett

I think the biggest difference is that the Pilot Talent slot is opened up. Using Echo or Whisper before pretty much required you to put Veteran Instincts on them to get the most out of shooting and cloaking.

Now with that ability off the table, you have a whole new slot to tinker with and get more utility out of the Phantom. Maybe you go for bullseye arc boosting abilities, for instance, to reward lining up better shots which you can do with decloaks. Maybe you run Juke to go with the free Evade token you get. You get to make some interesting choices there.

Technically, with the Grand Inquisitor aboard, instead of waiting to the end phase, you can re-cloak after you shoot if you happen to have an enemy ship at range 0-2 with less initiative, not even in your arc of fire.

Next round, you won't get your free evade action from decloaking, but with Whisper you'll get one for attacking (and hitting), so you could keep the cycle endlessly, albeit limited to green blue maneuvers.

Probably not practical all the time, but surely useful in given circumstances.

8 hours ago, BrotherFett said:

Hello! To start off, I know there is probably a page about this, but I figured I'd just ask for simplicity sake. Could some one tell me what advantages the tie phantom has in 2.0 versus its 1.0 counterpart? I have heard that it is better, and I have heard that it is far worse. Could some one explain? Thanks!

The 1.0 TIE Phantom was about as close to winning or losing before the game even started as you could get. They were incredibly powerful, but incredibly fragile, so if your Phantoms shot first, you had a massive advantage; if they didn't shoot first, they died quickly. Because their offensive power and defensive potential were both very high, they were astronomically priced, but they were only worth the points if you could guarantee they'd shoot first, which you couldn't. So Phantoms were neat but expensive ships that were made irrelevant by the large number of ships with access to PS10-11.

So I don't think of the changes to the TIE Phantom as nerfs. I think of them as needed quality-of-life adjustments to make them playable. They lost the fourth attack die and access to mid-combat cloaking, but gained a whole lot of flexibility, an extra HP, and a reasonable price. Whisper's minimum price dropped from 41% of a list to 26% (plus a Talent, I suppose).

The biggest advantages, simply put, are that it's no longer bound by a crippling need to shoot first; its ace pilots can now take Talents; and, most importantly, it no longer requires investing half a list into fielding one. Heck, you could field Whisper + Echo + 2 Sigma Aces if you wanted to.

Cost is the key advantage. I like 2.0 phantoms.

Personally, I'll try the following for a cheap ace killer :

Imdaar test pilot - 44 points
Darth Vader - 14
Stealth Device - 6

Total : 64

Stay cloaked at all time, use vader (in addition to either a reaper somewhere in the list, or a lambda) to pass unavoidable damage to ace, and use focus + 5 green dice to stay mostly untargetable, and uncloak for the killing blow.

It's more affordable

It's got one more hull

It's no longer built around a stupid, ps dependent defensive mechanic that made it nigh on worthless against higher ps

Built in Stygium array offers incredible versitility (don't even have to attack to recloak) and a quick (oh crap!) Option if you get caught

Stygium makes the phantom also about the only Juke platform worth a ****

No more higher ps bomb drops and FAR fewer guaranteed damage shenanigans

All for losing a measly red die.

It's basically a 2.0 Xwing but vastly more manueverable with its decloak

4 hours ago, Jehan Menasis said:

Technically, with the Grand Inquisitor aboard, instead of waiting to the end phase, you can re-cloak after you shoot if you happen to have an enemy ship at range 0-2 with less initiative, not even in your arc of fire.

Next round, you won't get your free evade action from decloaking, but with Whisper you'll get one for attacking (and hitting), so you could keep the cycle endlessly, albeit limited to green blue maneuvers.

Probably not practical all the time, but surely useful in given circumstances.

Not sure that would work, Grand Inquisitor is when enemies reveal their dial, not when they engage.

I think the Phantoms are generally better. Not having 4 attack dice hurts, but brings down price considerably. They are slightly less fragile and the sliding price of Shield Upgrade, Hull Upgrade, and Stealth Device actually helps them out some (especially since most of the other upgrades seem kinda meh to me for the Phantom).

I think the Phantom with Juke has great synergy, but as always, the Phantom is going to need to be played very well, thinking 2-3 turns ahead all the time to be an effective ship.

It does worth mentioning that, at this point, the Phantom is one of the only ships in the game that can double token stack (excluding Force). It should be a strong defensive ship, plus will be able to viably dodge turret arcs since it can afford to Barrel Roll, especially when Juking.

2 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

Not sure that would work, Grand Inquisitor is when enemies reveal their dial, not when they engage.

You're right, I had totally in mind that it was at engaging.

They fly like the generics used to fly, but without skipping a round of firing all the time.

2 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

They fly like the generics used to fly, but without skipping a round of firing all the time.

So...not like how they used to fly at all ?

Unstated but worth mentioning: no TLT = phantom buff ?

20 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

Worse: less attack dice, no post-attack cloak.

Better: higher relative initiative, especially for the named pilots. MUCH more affordably costed. Stygium ability is built in and allows for WILD movement shenanigans via reliable decloaking at the beginning of each round.

The TIE_Phantom has never been good ever since the cloak nerf. IMHO Cloak tokens could get some extra help. (A movement in the combat phase if still cloaked would work).

There was a bit of some shenanigans with blocking and intel agent which allows you to see where to move to block but to be honest 7-8 TIE Fighters mostly at PS1 did a much better job than 3 TIE Phantoms at PS 3.

I played Phantoms (welll... Whisper) more than any other ship in 1.0. She was really good (although very unforgiving of a mistake).

From what I can see the 2.0 version has less attack, less defence but is much cheaper. Also much less reliant on PS other than for arc-dodging (which is now its best form of defence).

The key to 2.0, I think, will be the crew slot. The Phantom will become a combat enabled transport - meaning you can have some of the “fun” Imperial crew without a dedicated transport. Freeing up the EPT (or whatever the new name is) will also be interesting.

Mostly though I will miss the 4 dice attack (although with less staking in 2.0 I suspect damage output could be similar)

No ACD means that one big difference in flight style - they no longer have to shoot every turn to stay alive, so being arc-dodged isn't an instant death sentence

3 hours ago, gadwag said:

No ACD means that one big difference in flight style - they no longer have to shoot every turn to stay alive, so being arc-dodged isn't an instant death sentence

Yeah that's it. They will be nuisance ship used to catch people out whilst they deal with the rest of your list, rather than the crux for your entire list like in 1.0 .