As of right now. Including a high expectation of meeting many single and dual Cymoon lists, plus still plenty of Rieekan aces?

(Also, a fore-disclaimer: Raiders by themselves don't counter squadrons. With considerable (6+) squadrons they possibly might, if the squadrons don't alpha strike the fragile Raiders off the board first.)

Also, @clontroper5 , any new findings?

At speed 4, with ExRacks and OrdExperts. I like mine with a side of Montferrat or Brunson. Always with Jerjerrod.

Some people seem to like the other raider with DipCaps and HIEs, but mine have, thus far, only gotten demolished.

@Snipafist is one of the experts of Raider use. He put up a Guide that you could consult for using:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/imperial-ship-review-raider-corvette.html

Thanks. I'll take a look at Snipafist's ideas.

Why JJrod?

Well, my stuff is a little old, but still good anything specific you are trying to accomplish?

1. Run Ozzel, Jerry, or have Entrapment Formation! in your fleet.

2. Raider1s really really want to be first player, and both varieties want to be in fleets that out-activate your opponent.

3. Positioning is everything, because they can absolutely be blown up in one shot. For this reason, raiders really shine when hiding in the shadows of a much scarier ship.

In general, your raider1s want to have ordnance experts, and external racks. You could probably play with upgrades if you're running Screed or Vader. Your raider2s are going to want disposable capacitors, and HIEs. Maybe veteran gunners as well to fish for those crits. Fletchette raiders are also viable, but you really need squads to guard them, because no squads will willingly end their turn within close range of a raider, and bombers will just kill you instead.

My personal favorite setups are either raider1s with Ozzel, or raider2s with Vader/Screed. All raiders work best with a last-first activation, sort of like a budget demolisher, except that they can't move and fire. Generally you use their super slick speed 2 maneuver chart to point in the right direction, or to slow-roll by inside turning or dog-legging sideways. Bank a nav token. Position yourself in such a spot where you aren't threatened by the enemy's guns. This means staying WELL away from the front arc of cymoons, or the side arcs of Ackbar Defiances. Both of these ships can absolutely one-shot you at long range. Alternatively, feel free to end the turn at long range of a Kuat or ISD1.

I like to end my movement 2 turns before the big-hit at a safe range in front of the target. Force them to move forward into you. Or, against very scary long range threats, jump to 4 to close the distance, and jump back to 2 to slide around to their side with your token. Concentrate fire, and put any damage you can into the ship. Activate first on the big-turn. Blow racks out the side, and concentrate fire out the front. This puts a ton of pressure on defense tokens. Raider2s can do this a little better. Stop turn N-2 at slightly-more than long range of your opponent's biggest ship. Queue up a concentrate fire. They move into long range. You pop the D-caps, and blast off their shields. You do it again next turn by activating first.

Once a raider has blown done its initial attack run, you want to either run to safety, or go down swinging. Again this is where raiders best shine in the shadow of a large ship. Against a MC80, ram into them and stay right where you are. Force them to decide whether to shoot your big target (ISD or demo), ignoring the raider and getting shot again next turn, or blowing up the raider and missing a shot against the big guy. This is especially useful against anything without gunnery teams. Raiders are too dangerous to ignore and require a large enough shot to deal 6 damage + an accuracy to take out in one go. Ships capable of throwing out that kind of fire would MUCH rather shoot your ISD or demo than waste that kind of firepower on a raider that's already blown its load.

Last point I have is that raiders are NOT your solution to squads. Yes they have terrific flak. But they have no redirects and so die very quickly to bombers. Don't run a flechette raider without squads of your own to protect it.

17 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Well, my stuff is a little old, but still good anything specific you are trying to accomplish?

Something that has good game against most things, most especially the 1-2 Cymoons and mass Rieekan squads/Yavaris.

Is not janky, and has a strong rate of success against typical fleets.

How do you feel about your Gladiator 4-5 raiders now btw?

If I was going to try Raiders against those lists, I'd make them hyper flanking speed-4 D-Cap RDR-IIs spitting High Intensity Ions (Or NK-7s, or SW-7s). It gives you the range you need to make full use of your defense tokens while delivering a critical effect at a safe range. You could even add a gunnery team if you expect multiple engagements after a high-speed flank.

I can't get my head around using RDR-Is without my armchair general brain melting from projecting the inevitable outcome against squadrons... so I haven't spent the time practicing those to spare myself the stream of losing necessary to actually get good with them. IIs feel safer than I at this point.

50 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Something that has good game against most things, most especially the 1-2 Cymoons and mass Rieekan squads/Yavaris.

Is not janky, and has a strong rate of success against typical fleets.

How do you feel about your Gladiator 4-5 raiders now btw?

Step 1: Activation manipulation is your friend, in all reality the only way the raiders will live is if they don't really get shot at. So you need a lot of activations (probably at least 6 to be safe) I recommend squeezing your goz In there a little for extra activation.

Step 2: master the "pounce" I.e. jumping from speed 2-4 to fly in at high speed and set up your shots. If you want I can post some vassal replay stuff to demonstrate this.

Step 3: make your raiders hurt your only going to get 1 or 2 shots with so make it count. I used expanded launchers, Apt is great, external racks is good(cheap and flexible) Darth Vader and screed help. You can try those new ion thingys, I'm personally sceptical but I haven't tried them yet. Also it goes with out but I will say it anyway Ordinance experts is a must.

Extra note: PRACTICE MANUVERING, again you need to dodge to survive so get good at dodging. Also activations help...

A note of investigator: most powerful title no one notices in the game. Period. Use it, your problems with squadron lists can go away when you use it right. Add a couple cheap fighters to be armor for instigator and boom!effective anti Squadron tools

As an addendum to Clons advice. Jerjerrod and raiders work the best together, since there are no redirects if a raider dies it will almost always die with shields on a hull, so think of this as another resource to use to enhance maneuverability. It turns out a JJ raider is more maneuverable at speed 4 with a command dial than a raider at speed 2.

The main trick with Raiders is to get value (you need to bag 44-48 points plus upgrades) while avoiding destruction (they have weak defenses at close range).

1. Deal damage from a position where your opponent can't return fire. Can you last/first your opponent in order to move the Raider in, shoot, and then get away at the start of the next round? Can you ensure the kill and prevent any shots coming back to your Raider? Is your opponent inexperienced and likely to maneuver into your threat zone? (Bad strategy, don't count on your opponent to fail in order to win.)

2. Hit really hard and accept that you might die. That's why people use Raiders with Boarding Troopers or with External Racks. Maybe you can claim more points than the Raider will give up, by both tossing tons of damage and also being really light on points yourself.

3. The newest option, stay a little farther out, where you have stronger defenses. Disposable Capacitors and Heavy Ion Emplacements, if you can control your dice with Veteran Gunners, Vader, or Screed, is pretty good setup for a follow-up cleaning crew.

I've been playing a Raider Swarm this Store Championship season, and I feel that the list has been great. (I've been a little out of practice, otherwise I think I'd have performed better.) My list includes a number of the items mentioned by others above.

ISD1 (Ozzel, Strategic Advisor, Boarding Engineers, and Relentless )
5x Raider-I (Ordnance Experts and External Racks)

Yes, the key is to basically use your Raiders like missiles, that fly at their targets at full speed, and do the last/first, unloading their ordnance and GTFO-ing.

Some squadrons (those with lots of hit points are difficult to deal with, but TIEs without defense tokens melt. A triple Cymoon list has been my bane, however. The list is very match-up dependent.

But, very importantly: the list is just a lot of fun to play.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Thanks. I'll take a look at Snipafist's ideas.

Why JJrod?

Because they can make stupid stupid maneuvers at Spd4 with Jerry and a Nav, lets them get into places your opponent can't exactly predict or block, and makes total use of their speed.

I definitely agree with the statements about using activation advantage and last-first to keep your Raiders in prime condition to unload and get out. They are excellent bullies against most other small ships of the corvette class, and even destroyer and cruiser class ships take unkindly to being hit by them. They are the ultimate piece for avoiding powerfull arcs to get in quick and deal damage far out of their weight class.

Ive been playing around at home with an idea of a raider team of 3 using ACMs or WABs. Its interesting results... ACMs gets a lot of damage out.

I've been experimenting with lots of Raiders recently, and I'm really liking them. I don't have a holistic answer, but a couple of things I've found:

They really like Thrawn. Nav and CF at the same time is super nice.
Activation advantage is, of course, really helpful.
Targeting Scramblers gives them a pretty nice little boost to survivability. So does Brunson (one-off, of course).
The Tua/EWS/OE/ Instigator /Flechettes shenanigans actually worked really well for me. If your opponent puts his squadrons in range, great, they're pinned. If not-- also great, you just denied him like 3/4 of the relevant battlespace at engagement time. Use that time to kill his carriers.

I'm testing out the fabled 64 point Instigator . External Racks, Ordnance Experts, Instigator, Minister Tue, and Early Warning System (IIRC, that's the right name. It's the one that lets you pick a hull zone to be obstructed). It's got a few TIE squadrons in the list to help pin down and put extra fire into bombers, but if you get it to work right, you can shut down bomber lists for a turn or two. Haven't had enough playtime to actually judge its effectiveness, but I'm excited about the possibilities.

The rest of the list is a Needa Arquitens, a Cymoon with Tarkin, Sovereign, Strategic Advisor, Gunnery Teams, and Intensify Forward Firepower (also either Quad Battery Turrets or Xi7 Turbolasers - I can't decide which is more valuable), and 2 Assault Gozantis. Jonus is running around also, to give accuracies as needed. Again - it needs more testing to see if the build actually works out, but I like it.

Found some old Advice I typed up in a PM. It was for a specific list but it should be of some help, I call it Cascading. Basically it's the ultimate form of activation manipulation lol anyway here it is:

Y'all are awesome. Now this a strategy talk.

@clontroper5 I LOVE THIS ****. great diagram!

And a list to go with this:

Tagge
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: General Tagge

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 63 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 63 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 43 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
- General Tagge ( 25 points)
= 69 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 30 total ship cost

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 points)
- Darth Vader ( 3 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 50 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Captain Brunson ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Concussion Missiles ( 7 points)
= 82 total ship cost

Navigation, navigation, navigation plus a good crit upgrade. Raider 1s that arc dodge can do serious damage. I have killed full health ISDs and homeone MC80s using raiders and apt

@PodRacer this is the question you always ask, anytime after running a raider...

17 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Y'all are awesome. Now this pod racing!

Fixed that for you. ?

16 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

@PodRacer this is the question you always ask, anytime after running a raider...

And this the answer:

"Not that way!"

Several thoughts/observations on Raiders:

1. Have activation advantage/activation parity. (this is really important with Raiders and especially Raider 1's )

2. Position them at a place opponent ship would be after a next round movement.

3. Fork!

4. Keep NAV token handy and navigate, navigate, navigate. Speed 2/3 Raider with nav token and nav dial can get more or less anywhere.

5. Inside turns and side slips are Raider's best friends.

6. Things that synergize with Raiders and weren't mentioned - Motti (allows Raider to almost always survive a single attack), Chimaera (shields to max as well as IFF and nav can help a lot at a right time). Projection experts (in one of my regional games opponent spent 3 rounds finishing off 1HP raider due to PE ship nearby patching those shields back every round).

The way I see it, in a current meta having all small ship fleet with full-bomber rogue wing can be a good call as too many people are not investing in anti squadron and teching to kill that one big ship.