I played a game against a buddy recently where we had more than the 2 flotillas and it was TERRIBLE. The activations issue came back, the boringness of the fleets, all of it. I'm happy with the nerf as it is.

Relatedly, if the cap was lifted and you could bring 3+ flotillas, Rieekan 2+3 comes back, and I don't need more of that. The cap forces NEW choices in fleets and doesn't just let squadron fleets win all the everything. Because then all I do is take Yavaris, 4 GRs, Rieekan on Jaina's Light, 134 points of squadrons, and guess who sits in the corner all game now? BEST case, you take out Yavaris and all 4 GRs, and then I still have 217 points left. Great game!

The flotilla nerf ruined this fleet that. I'll never forgive it!

Daddy Tarkbucks
Author: Brobafett

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 388/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
- Sovereign ( 4 points)
- Strategic Adviser ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Lasers ( 9 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
= 181 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 36 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

= 0 total squadron cost

5 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

The flotilla nerf ruined this fleet that. I'll never forgive it!

Daddy Tarkbucks
Author: Brobafett

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 387/400

Commander: Grand Moff Tarkin

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Grand Moff Tarkin ( 38 points)
- Sovereign ( 4 points)
- Strategic Adviser ( 4 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
= 181 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 36 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Assault Carriers (28 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 41 total ship cost

= 0 total squadron cost

The very first RRG ruined that.

I'm totally on board with the changes to Flotillas, nothing was more boring than someone turning up with a massive fleet of flotillas and squadrons and then castling one flotilla off in the corner where no one could get to it. Same with the activation problem, it just wasn't fun. A limit of 2 and them not counting for tabling is fine. I don't have any problems with the relay nerf either, it always seemed a bit unreasonable that there was no in range restriction on it.

14 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:

... and inexplicable thematically.

Why is it thematically inexplicable?

The Galactic Civil War is a case of asymmetric warfare. The Rebels are SUPPOSED to have freighters and fighters. Now if it's the Empire with the flotillas, that might be another thing, but otherwise I find it perfectly thematic.

9 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

Just out of curiosity, how many of you folks that hate the flotilla nerfs were playing fish farm prior to them going into effect? And how many folks would go back to fish farm if they just lifted the cap but left the tabling and lifeboat rules?

I'm not being mean, I'm asking for real. I've played against that fleet too many times to not like at least the lifeboat and tabling rule, but if they lifted the cap, I think I'd be fine with it. The game doesn't need all three nerfs in place.

I played a variation of Ard's 4 MC30 + 3 flotilla list in the past (modified because I only have 3 MC30s) and have played a Thrawn Cymoon (IF) 6 Assault Gozanti list. I played the MC30 list in 2 tournaments and the Thrawn one in a funsies one once.

If all current rules were in place except for the hard cap of 2, that just means those fleets are more of a high risk / high reward list, which as @Ardaedhel mentions above, is good to allow players to choose. IMHO. Considering the Rieekan nerf, the Relay range nerf, the lifeboat rule, and the flotilla tabling rule, what problem does the hard cap solve? I can't answer that question other than less activation padding I guess? However with the flotilla table rule, is an extra 1-2 activations (for running 3 or 4 flotillas instead of 2) all that big a deal when you can't relay fighters across the board and you get tabled easier?

Also here's an interesting anecdote - the same thing that the OP mentions happened in the store championship I ran last Saturday too. My player knew the rule but misread it as being only part of Single Elimination tournaments as it follows that section in the tournament rules - I think he just didn't notice it was a section on its own and wasn't connected to Single Elimination rules.

11 hours ago, moodswing5537 said:

Just out of curiosity, how many of you folks that hate the flotilla nerfs were playing fish farm prior to them going into effect? And how many folks would go back to fish farm if they just lifted the cap but left the tabling and lifeboat rules?

I'm not being mean, I'm asking for real. I've played against that fleet too many times to not like at least the lifeboat and tabling rule, but if they lifted the cap, I think I'd be fine with it. The game doesn't need all three nerfs in place.

The challenge would be Fish Farm vs Raddus, who’s already plenty **** strong if you ask me. The cap also pretends to keep MSU in the game with an upper limit on DMC/dual ISD activation counts (here its StratAd that’s really pushing boundaries). Removing the cap hurts MSU even more.

EDIT: Also reallows Rieekan Aceholes which, if you’ll forgive the scorched earth tactics, I wanted to shove on Mars and then Base Delta Zero that worthless rock.

I liked playing fish farm. Advanced gunnery is such a fun mission. People seem overly scared of it, all it tends to do is turn an arc you really didnt want to land in, to become an arc you really really really dont want to land in. Not sure thats particularly different.

I picked it against a triple cymoon the other day, I wasnt going to go into the front arc of his middle ship anyway, so it gave him exactly zero points and his advanced gunnery ship only had one rear arc shot all game. Yet on paper everyone is scared of it.

8 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

The very first RRG ruined that.

The fleet was made on warlords, blame them ??

8 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

The very first RRG ruined that.

No, it didn’t.

The very first RRG, as presented in the core box, makes no reference to duplicate upgrades as there was no ship with duplicate upgrade slots in the first wave.

indeed, it was only when wave 2 was released that people were concerned with the madness of double expanded hangars on an ISD1...

It was, I believe (but not confirmed) the SECOND FAQ that added the reference to not being able to choose duplicate upgrades.

#TechnicallyCorrect

#ImWatchingYouOvi

?

As a guy who just faced 3 Sloane aces lists with a no squads MSU yesterday, I appreciate the new rules. They allowed me to table 2 opponents and nearly get tabled by 1. 1-10, 10-1, 10-1 on the day, and it was way more fun and charged then if it was a bunch of 6-5 non engagements.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

No, it didn’t.

The very first RRG, as presented in the core box, makes no reference to duplicate upgrades as there was no ship with duplicate upgrade slots in the first wave.

indeed, it was only when wave 2 was released that people were concerned with the madness of double expanded hangars on an ISD1...

It was, I believe (but not confirmed) the SECOND FAQ that added the reference to not being able to choose duplicate upgrades.

#TechnicallyCorrect

#ImWatchingYouOvi

?

#IStandCorrected

#ImNotScared

?

All flotilla nerfs have made the game better. Placing restrictions on a game that is several years old is how you pump new life into it. Can you imagine if MTG only had 1 format and it allowed every card in it? You end up with a handful of decks that are the best, and only lose to each other. Constraints in certain areas prevent power creep from ruining any game. If you don't like it, go create a Armada Legacy format where you can play by old rules.

10 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

All flotilla nerfs have made the game better. Placing restrictions on a game that is several years old is how you pump new life into it. Can you imagine if MTG only had 1 format and it allowed every card in it? You end up with a handful of decks that are the best, and only lose to each other. Constraints in certain areas prevent power creep from ruining any game. If you don't like it, go create a Armada Legacy format where you can play by old rules.

I think it is called Corellian Conflict.

21 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

All flotilla nerfs have made the game better. Placing restrictions on a game that is several years old is how you pump new life into it. Can you imagine if X-WING only had 1 format and it allowed every Ship in it? You end up with a handful of Fleets that are the best, and only lose to each other. Constraints in certain areas prevent power creep from ruining any game. If you don't like it, go create a Armada Legacy format where you can play by old rules.

FTFY....

?

33 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

FTFY....

?

Same difference haha I was watching Day9 and he was discussing the benefits of cycling cards out of Hearthstone and MTG because it keeps the game fresh. Powerful new cards can be introduced when the older ones are removed. The same upkeep should be done for all of FFG games, but I feel like they don't understand it. They can't keep making more powerful ships/cards to make that pack relevant. Instead, they should update the rules to allow a cycle that removes content, or a cycle that randomizes older stuff while the new stuff is coming out.

Or just scrap everything and make 2.0 because the players will spend a huge amount of money on rebuilding a collection.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Same difference haha I was watching Day9 and he was discussing the benefits of cycling cards out of Hearthstone and MTG because it keeps the game fresh. Powerful new cards can be introduced when the older ones are removed. The same upkeep should be done for all of FFG games, but I feel like they don't understand it. They can't keep making more powerful ships/cards to make that pack relevant. Instead, they should update the rules to allow a cycle that removes content, or a cycle that randomizes older stuff while the new stuff is coming out.

Or just scrap everything and make 2.0 because the players will spend a huge amount of money on rebuilding a collection.

I think you nailed their plan with that last one....

9 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Why is it thematically inexplicable?

The Galactic Civil War is a case of asymmetric warfare. The Rebels are SUPPOSED to have freighters and fighters. Now if it's the Empire with the flotillas, that might be another thing, but otherwise I find it perfectly thematic.

Thematically inexplicable in that losing 3-4 capable and expensive warships crewed by thousands of loyal Rebel troops is a catastrophic loss compared to the survival of 1-2 unarmed flotillas barring some specific mission requirement.

Looking at Armada at present, flotillas are still a popular addition to fleets, but not mandatory. This contrasts to pre-FAQ, where a fleet without flotillas was highly unusual.

Common but not a must-have sounds about right for game balance.

Why fix something if is isn't broken (any longer)?

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

Thematically inexplicable in that losing 3-4 capable and expensive warships crewed by thousands of loyal Rebel troops is a catastrophic loss compared to the survival of 1-2 unarmed flotillas barring some specific mission requirement.

Are we talking about the same Star Wars, where the survival of specific small ships, carrying specific individuals, is what the whole trilogy is based on?

I love the rules, but it does throw the point cost of flotillas into mayhem. For what they can do, I'd rather have an Ace Squad.

A simple fix would be to give their special upgrade a lot more love.

Some ideas include:

A card that grants them the 'Strategic' keyword;

A card like Flight Controllers but for adding a die to Bombers;

A card that turns them into a more combat viable ship, maybe 'While attacking treat your attacks as if you revealed a concentrate fire dial' (would also help them as flak boats, and might even see Assualt Carriers and Combat flotillas more often)

Make the cards cost appropriate values and you'll see some really cool lists. Its the only ship in the game with Fleet Support and there are a ton of things you can do with it.

9 hours ago, teeseeuu said:

As a guy who just faced 3 Sloane aces lists with a no squads MSU yesterday, I appreciate the new rules. They allowed me to table 2 opponents and nearly get tabled by 1. 1-10, 10-1, 10-1 on the day, and it was way more fun and charged then if it was a bunch of 6-5 non engagements.

Actually, I will say, it makes Sloane far more bareable. I walked through a Demo/Quasar Sloane build recently post new tabling. Need to try into the Dictor/Quasar build next methinks.

43 minutes ago, Alzer said:

Actually, I will say, it makes Sloane far more bareable. I walked through a Demo/Quasar Sloane build recently post new tabling. Need to try into the Dictor/Quasar build next methinks.

Having done very well at Adepticon with a Dictor/Quasar build (2nd day 1, 1st day 2), I don't have the stones required to run a 3-ship fleet any more with the new flotilla changes. That's probably for the best. The Interdictor is extremely tanky but if you get rushed, you're in for a bad time.

Sloane nowadays seems to have a glass jaw problem. She matches up favorably against other big ship fleets but if MSU is common in your meta or Ten Numb bunker Rieekan aceholes, it's tough.

5 hours ago, eliteone said:

A card like Flight Controllers but for adding a die to Bombers;

Speaking as someone who likes and often plays bombers, this would be very very very bad for the game. Adar and Luke would love it though.

6 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Are we talking about the same Star Wars, where the survival of specific small ships, carrying specific individuals, is what the whole trilogy is based on?

That is not winning the battle rather than the war. Armada is not about the war rather than the battles. ?