34 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:That is not winning the battle rather than the war. Armada is not about the war rather than the battles. ?
But that’s just it...
The way tournament scoringbis geared, it’s certaibly skewed to have you be MINDFUL of a greater war, even while focusing on an individual battle.
Tgats why “just winning” at all costs isn’t always the best, and a minor loss doesn’t necessarily cost you everything...
40 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:But that’s just it...
The way tournament scoringbis geared, it’s certaibly skewed to have you be MINDFUL of a greater war, even while focusing on an individual battle.
Tgats why “just winning” at all costs isn’t always the best, and a minor loss doesn’t necessarily cost you everything...
The war is still there. That's the reason but Armada is about the battles. Each battle is abstractically inserted within a galactic conflict. Due to that, the scoring system has sense (only for tournaments).
What I meant is that it doesn't matter Star Wars was about special guys on special ships winning the war with a lucky shot. Precisely the score system doesn't count squadrons and little transport surviving the battle as something meaningful even when it is obvious that SW always made it the key point of Galaxy's fate*.
*What is also arguable as every "meaningless" force escaping from a lost battle just get sense after in another battle that, this time, they win.
4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:That is not winning the battle rather than the war. Armada is not about the war rather than the battles. ?
So I guess that means Armada is not thematic to begin with.
Edited by Mikael Hasselstein14 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:So I guess that means Armada is not thematic to begin with.
2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:The war is still there. That's the reason but Armada is about the battles. Each battle is abstractically inserted within a galactic conflict. Due to that, the scoring system has sense (only for tournaments).
What I meant is that it doesn't matter Star Wars was about special guys on special ships winning the war with a lucky shot. Precisely the score system doesn't count squadrons and little transport surviving the battle as something meaningful even when it is obvious that SW always made it the key point of Galaxy's fate*.
*What is also arguable as every "meaningless" force escaping from a lost battle just get sense after in another battle that, this time, they win.
43 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:So I guess that means Armada is not thematic to begin with.
Well duh. Why wouldn't the ISD fire from the front when a target moves into range? Why does it wait for the ship to move off to the side? Why does ramming a flotilla prevent the ship from moving?
Flotillas are the shipping. The point of a navy is to protect the shipping. If only your shipping is left while the other guys have warships, you've lost the shipping too.
The problem with Flotillas was/is the scatter token. Nerf the scatter token on flotillas and you can un-nerf everything else (although that the squadron with Relay didn't need to be in range of the ship passing the squadron order never made sense to me.) Flotillas are far too survivable for what they represent. You could only put the Commander on them because they could be both hidden away and not shot because of the scatter token.
You can only bring more shipping (flotillas) than a lone warship can protect because of scatter. The flotillas couldn't be picked off from arcs that had nothing else to shoot at.
21 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:Are we talking about the same Star Wars, where the survival of specific small ships, carrying specific individuals, is what the whole trilogy is based on?
That is what I'm referring to with "specific mission requirement." If the success/failure determinant is to destroy a specific small flotilla before it escapes to hyperspace, then we can safely assume that the flotilla surviving despite the destruction of the entire remaining fleet is a moral victory at horrendous cost. But that's not the same as winning the immediate engagement, or defeating the enemy.
16 hours ago, themightyhedgehog said:Speaking as someone who likes and often plays bombers, this would be very very very bad for the game. Adar and Luke would love it though.
A solid way for Rebels to bring down dual ISD lists...
Make the card only affect Aces? So no bomber balls. Ten Y-Wings for 100pts throwing 20 black die would be OP.
Vs. Luke, Nym, Norra, Dutch, Tien, Keyan,
quick head math says thats 112 points for six squads, I think it could be interesting.
2 hours ago, eliteone said:A solid way for Rebels to bring down dual ISD lists...
Make the card only affect Aces? So no bomber balls. Ten Y-Wings for 100pts throwing 20 black die would be OP.
Vs. Luke, Nym, Norra, Dutch, Tien, Keyan,
quick head math says thats 112 points for six squads, I think it could be interesting.
Have you played against rieekan yavaris aceholes? It usually doesn’t struggle tabling dual isd lists...
My take away from this thread:
Both sides (for and against) are having a theme/negative experience issue.
Both sides agree completely that some changes needed to happen.
The common issue referenced is the end of game scoring mechanism of margins, in contrast to accomplishment and how that places you in tournament scoring. Which is a seemingly underlying issue across the community.
Fascinating. ????
2 hours ago, themightyhedgehog said:Have you played against rieekan yavaris aceholes? It usually doesn’t struggle tabling dual isd lists...
My meta has some very good dual ISD players.
26 minutes ago, eliteone said:My meta has some very good dual ISD players.
Not something that shows an imbalance in game content, but in local skill. Worlds has never been won with dual ISDs. Rebel aces, on the other hand, have consistently dominated in worlds (and most other high-level events.) Buffing them would be poorly received, to say the least.
3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:Not something that shows an imbalance in game content, but in local skill. Worlds has never been won with dual ISDs. Rebel aces, on the other hand, have consistently dominated in worlds (and most other high-level events.) Buffing them would be poorly received, to say the least.
Not yet 
20 hours ago, eliteone said:My meta has some very good dual ISD players.
Let me know when dual isds won worlds
1 minute ago, themightyhedgehog said:Let me know when dual isds won worlds
Be more concerned about SSDs now.
I loved the tabling, but found that the hard cap was really rough when it first came out. Now though, I rally love both. It has really changed up the game and has made people engage more. It has also really made me love suppressor again. Before, I always felt that it was too risky... take it and you have to fly close... then you're in Blue range and can be easily gunned down, making it easy to table you and any squads. You should hang back.
Now? Take it all you want. Either your opponent takes shots at the flotilla, 'wasting' them for the purposes of killing it, or, Suppressor kicks in and pressures their best defense token....
Plus, for all of those arguing about the fluf of Star Wars, how are a pair of Gozantis supposed to keep 134 points of Imp Squads around? They carry 4 ties max? 
Okay.
So.
There's an SSD Now.
An SSD is going to be a huge chunk of points.
Perhaps this is the reason why the rules are the way the rules are on the subject?