So, I got back from a Store Championship today, and I have mixed feelings. I took second, but both of my victories felt hollow. The second match was just awkward (2 Kuat ISDs vs Ackbar with two hammerheads is just a lopsided match, but new players make do with what they have), but my first match was rather frustrating. As you can probably guess, my opponent was tabled with a flotilla (and a ton of squadrons) left on the board- and because he hadn't played in a long time, he didn't know that flotillas don't count for tabling- a rude surprise for a fleet with just an ISD and a Quasar. Had I known of his ignorance I would have let him know at the start of the tournament instead of telling him in the middle of turn five when I realized his strategy didn't make sense if he was familliar with the current tournament regulations.

Right, so, prologue out of the way, obviously it's not my fault my opponent was unfamiliar with the current tournament regulations. But this sparked a discussion between the veterans in attendance about whether the rule was necessary- Since this turned what was probably a 3-8 loss for me into a 6-5 win (Even with EWS, Superior Positions was a really dumb idea vs. Sloane Interceptors. Especially when you forget to cover the backside of a star destroyer for a turn). And to be honest, we felt the rule wasn't necessary. After all, with lifeboats gone and relay nerfed, flotillas can't pull their weight without going into the fray. Maybe we're letting an unfortunate upset color our perceptions. What do you guys think?

First of all, you shouldn't feel bad about your opponent not knowing about the new tabling rule for flotillas. Every Store Championship I have entered has had some sort of disclaimer in the event information that stated " All participants should familiarize themselves with the Rules Reference Guide, latest FAQ, and latest Tournament Regulations." Even though SCs are casual tournaments, you can't feel bad if someone isn't prepared. Just ensure that during the game or if you have time after, try to bring them up to speed on any of the major FAQ/tournament changes for future reference.

I love that flotillas don't count for tabling. It makes taking them (as well as the squadrons that they support) a risk versus reward venture. Even with the lifeboat gone, an opponent could still just place a GR-75 or a Gozanti in the corner to prevent a tabling for a fairly small number of points; they are not going to do this if the cost is now a Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette or a Raider-I. If there is a change to flotilla rules that should be considered, I think it is the rule that you can only two of them on the table at once (in a tournament). This again comes down to the risk versus reward. You could have deployment and activation advantage, but you increase your risk of being tabled (although I think this may have to do with the introduction of combat flotillas in Wave 8 or beyond, as a cheap combat flotilla in an Ackbar fleet may be extremely OP).

Best change to the game ever made imo.

Squad-based fleets could play super reckless and aggressive and disengage if things went poorly, saving a massive amount of points in the process and preventing bad losses. They need to be careful now, which is a huge improvement on matches.

Don't even get me started. Yes, it was a terrible rule change. While something needed to change, it was not this. It's also a very weird rule change when you consider all the things that came out in the subsequent wave that seem to also be designed to put the smack down on flottilas and their shenanigans anyway. Tack that onto an already undesirable scoring system in tournaments and the situation becomes even worse.

Carrier fleets have to engage now without the security of a flotilla in the corner keeping them in the game. This allows non- carrier and even squadless fleets a viable battle plan against a 134 squadball. More fleets have more ways to win... makes for more tactically deep gameplay.

To be honest if someone enters an event and doesn't know the rules well that's their problem. More often then not at an event people have built this lists to win. So going into a game and feeling sorry for someone because they didn't do their homework cant be on you.

As the others have said, it's not your fault. However, that's obviously not the point of what's making you feel this way. It feels like a hollow way to win - and, more importantly on the other side, a very hollow way to lose.

For my part, I think they might have overnerfed flotillas. They might have done better by being more patient with the nerf - allowing the individual nerfs to come to somewhat of an equilibrium in the meta before implementing the next nerf - seeing if the next nerf was really necessary.

In other words: FFG should have been better nerfherders.

I think the rule is great. I've used flotillas a bit, but was never huge on them (I own two of each). I've gotten a few tablings with my 3-Chimera list thanks to that rule, and it did not feel hollow (but my opponents knew what they were getting into). Also the variety of lists has gone up at events since that rule was instated, I feel like.

I've found it generally to be a negative play experience. Being tabled with nearly half of your fleet still on the table is pretty bogus. I've been on the tabling and tabled end of this ruling multiple times and it just feels crummy to go from in the game to lost. **** even with 3+2 or 4+1 builds you can quickly end up losing by a far-greater margine due to this change.

I greatly appreciate the two-flotilla cap but the combination strikes me as excessive. I would have prefered that they let the 2-flotilla and Relay nerfs run their course before taking this next step, but i suppose nothing to do now...

I'm on board with the tabling rule.

I strongly disagree with them having instituted both this and the hard cap of 2. I think it was unnecessarily heavy-handed, and directly removed player choice.

I always prefer to see them incentivize changes to fleet composition rather than mandate them, if at all possible. And I think the tabling rule was a sufficiently strong incentive to schwack the 1 Lg + 8 Flot spam that was starting to creep into the game without having to also hard cap flots.

I think flots not counting to prevent tabling was the best of the changes they made. Getting rid of lifeboats was also nice. The change I feel wasn't completely necessary was the 2 flot cap. but the rule change regarding flots and tabling was def a good move.

- they don't count for tabling

- just two

- relay nerfed

I would have liked just the first. The more you take the easier to tabling you. Also a flotilla commanding from the outer rim would still hurt but the good news are you wouldn't need to kill it anymore. Of course would still be possible Jaina's light and a tons of flotillas to avoid tabling while bombing hard from hyperstupid range but even then you have only 134 points of squadrons to fight so not a great idea anyways.

I see the third could have shown needed as well after adding the first one so not a big deal but with no doubt the new tabling rule is the best change done so far, IMHO.

So far I saw we are back to rock-scissors-paper but with more elements (for putting it simple). And yes, it seems Rieekan is Spock. ?

Great change. As you note from the results, you went from a 3-8 to a 6-5, and the 3-8 was pretty much the expectation of many lists against a squadron capped list. With the tabling rule, if you play badly, you still have the possibility of the 3-8, and if you play well, there's the possibility of of the 3-8, and if you both play well (or badly or just the same), the 6-5.

I'm 100% on board with the changes. No reservations. Squadron heavy builds are still winning just fine (Euros, Worlds). Flotilla spam can rot in ****

I had exactly the same thing happen to me in an OP after the rules change, only I was playing a friend of mine and he had read the new rules as he was aware of the cap but had over looked the significance of the tabling change, so when my squadronless IDS list took down his ISD and I said its all over if I can finish that damaged Qasar he was surprised and I felt bad about it too.

IMO the tabling rule change was justified, it stops a daft situation where a player is running away for three turn with what amounts to 80+% of his fleet dead but he hasn't lost, it also makes it posable to counter a fleet build (134 squadrons) with your deployment and game play instead of your fleet build, which allows for more varation.

The hard cap f 2 I think was just unnecessary, its a low cap excludes player choice and was just over kill, I think it hurt MSU, and it removed the 5 +1 which they could have done in another way. A cap of 3 or a limit that you could not take more flotillas than you have non flotillas would have been better.

While all the changes at once may have been overkill I am in favor of them all. Games are much more interesting if everything is engaged and there is a high risk reward. Lowering the risk by spinning flotilla's in the corner and hen pecking a fleet from long range was just not a fun play experience. I tried it from both sides and didn't like it either way.

Maybe wave 8 will have something that makes clearer why the changes were made, or maybe not. Either way I like the rules as they stand. Maybe they didn't need the hard cap of 2 but otherwise all good changes. The hard cap rule to me makes sense. There are squads that cost more than a floatilla after all. For me, if it costs less than some squads it shouldn't count towards tabling.

The only problem I see is the one pointed. People don't know the rule or don't realize how it really affected the game so it will be a surprise and is not a nice one but once you already get it all will be ok. Actually the tactical game is more fun.

14 hours ago, Squark said:

So, I got back from a Store Championship today, and I have mixed feelings. I took second, but both of my victories felt hollow. The second match was just awkward (2 Kuat ISDs vs Ackbar with two hammerheads is just a lopsided match, but new players make do with what they have), but my first match was rather frustrating. As you can probably guess, my opponent was tabled with a flotilla (and a ton of squadrons) left on the board- and because he hadn't played in a long time, he didn't know that flotillas don't count for tabling- a rude surprise for a fleet with just an ISD and a Quasar. Had I known of his ignorance I would have let him know at the start of the tournament instead of telling him in the middle of turn five when I realized his strategy didn't make sense if he was familliar with the current tournament regulations.

Right, so, prologue out of the way, obviously it's not my fault my opponent was unfamiliar with the current tournament regulations. But this sparked a discussion between the veterans in attendance about whether the rule was necessary- Since this turned what was probably a 3-8 loss for me into a 6-5 win (Even with EWS, Superior Positions was a really dumb idea vs. Sloane Interceptors. Especially when you forget to cover the backside of a star destroyer for a turn). And to be honest, we felt the rule wasn't necessary. After all, with lifeboats gone and relay nerfed, flotillas can't pull their weight without going into the fray. Maybe we're letting an unfortunate upset color our perceptions. What do you guys think?

I like the new ruling and as such changed my playstyle to match and became even more aggressive with my GR-75 s using them to dictate the flow of battle, and as blockers for my enemy to ram, and thus stay in the arcs of my MC75 and 30 another turn.

That they don't count for tabling anymore is good imo as, as said you can be more aggressive and also ignore the opponents one's and go straight for a table...

The nerfs are perfect and have balanced the game nicely.Only limiting it to tabling would not solve the fish farms that ran rampant awhile back. The hard cap solved the fish farm, the tabling killed the run-a-gr75-away-for-6-turns strategy.

I'm loving the flotilla and Relay changes, period. Squad-heavy fleets are still doing just fine competitively and they're back to having low to moderate amount of activations and glass jaw downsides they had prior to flotillas being introduced to the game but with the extra advantage of all the squad love that got piled on since wave 2, so I don't feel sorry for them.

If your opponent comes to a tournament without familiarizing himself with the rule updates, that's on him. You're not responsible for educating your opponent and asking every person you play if they're up on their FAQs is obnoxious and kind of insulting to some people.

I think you did your best. its a shock, but the rules are rules. and this is an extremely needed rule. It makes it much more balanced to play against squad-heavy fleets, which continue to be strong nerf and nerf.

20 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Don't even get me started. Yes, it was a terrible rule change. While something needed to change, it was not this. It's also a very weird rule change when you consider all the things that came out in the subsequent wave that seem to also be designed to put the smack down on flottilas and their shenanigans anyway. Tack that onto an already undesirable scoring system in tournaments and the situation becomes even worse.

As a guy running 4 flotillas prior to the change the new tabling rule for flotillas is the best and most positive change the game has made for tournament play so far. Losing (or even winning sometimes) because a single flotilla was circling off in a corner somewhere was both infuriating and inexplicable thematically.

Yes. Flotillas ruined the spirit of the game big time and rewarded the min max players that nobody likes.

So anything and everything to minimize them is absolutely welcome.

My $0.02 is that I agree with the folks saying there are one too many nerfs. My preference is that they drop the cap of 2 rule but leave everything else in place.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you folks that hate the flotilla nerfs were playing fish farm prior to them going into effect? And how many folks would go back to fish farm if they just lifted the cap but left the tabling and lifeboat rules?

I'm not being mean, I'm asking for real. I've played against that fleet too many times to not like at least the lifeboat and tabling rule, but if they lifted the cap, I think I'd be fine with it. The game doesn't need all three nerfs in place.