You've got to figure that Yuggoth AP1 and the Expansion will be released by Regionals. And Yuggoth was never delayed; we're in between cycles. Amazon's May 11th is on the list as one of our next target dates. I am hopeful. But I certainly don't need more between-release down time to better enjoy the game. I do agree that the game is complex enough that you could research it daily to stay competitive.

I was at the FFG event center this past weekend for regionals.

I'm sure the regional champ will be writing up an article but in

the meantime I can pass along some info and hopefully I am not

received as a tease. I was told by those with the greatest authority

that indeed 'Secrets' would go out the first of the next month and

if I'm remembering correctly 'Yuggoth' will begin the last of the month.

FFG was the perfect host and provided prize support galore, to include

new play mats and uncut sheets of 'Secrets'! I'm not sure if the other

regionals had similar prizes but if you choose not to attend you will

likely regret it.

Hooray for Hybrid !

Thanks for putting us back in the loop.

"Call of Cthulhu Card Game: Secrets of Arkham Expansion"
Estimated arrival date: July 02 2010

Buatha said:

Ahh its good to know there are so many different release dates for this.

Even FFG event center has it listed as "sometime in may".

So who really knows when the hell it will be released?

Certainly not even FFG it seems.

Buatha said:

I had assumed it was something official...

Now I'm going to guess that FFG figured to wait until the end of regionals to make Secrets of Arkham Contraction available to allow for a uniform tournament season.

They laugh at me at my game store. They just say "no," when I walk in. Doubt I'll ever pre-order an FFG item again. And this is me talking, the rah rah cthulhu guy. FFG I'm sure is super great and all, but totally boned it on this facet of their operations.

My joke story of the missing pallets and the fishy school bus is giving way to an image of the Swedish chef running the upcoming, releases, and shipping department, blindly throwing kitchen utensils over his shoulders, "bork bork bork."

johnny shoes said:

I am reminded of that every time I look at the upcoming releases and see the gears of war board game on the Q4 2009 release date. Its actually embarassing to look at and I dont even work for FFG.

Its painfully obvious that FFG have returned to their previous "we have absolutely no clue when our stuff is going to be released" position from a few years ago. Its also obvious that their plans for game releases change according to the wind when games are proposed and then suddenly released and the games that had a previous release schedule are literally forgotten.

I will no longer look at the upcoming section. Its just too disheartening to bear. I am not even going to ask the people at the FFG event center when something is due. The bottom-line here is that money that could be spent on buying enough cards for two people to have a full playset (which is by no means cheap) is now being spent on other games from other companies.

Like I said before, a vicious cycle of self fulfilling prophecy. Sure, its just a game. I am not really bothered by it. But I am bothered by trying to throw money at a company and then having to instruct them on how to catch it.

If the expansion is not ready, it's just not ready. One must advertise the product in advance and release spoils. That part works. I suppose pushing back the date need not be accompanied by this reason or that. After all, the process must look uniform. Can't have the printer blaming the shipper blaming the proofreader.

Perhaps we're just looking at the box, and the guts are still brewing, or had been while the expansion seemed in the can.

And FFG looks like a huge operation at this point, as far as quantity of new stuff looks. Could be some growing pains, or a staff stretched. Games are fun and creative. This game maker makes my one favorite game.

This era is marked by some stability. Two arcs down, one AP arc pending, the overall LCG growth among FFG products is promising. We can hope for another AP cycle after yuggoth, though my faith in more (mentioned) expansions, and thus the game overall, is somewhat shaken. But there are good reports on the tournament front of nice support and nice folks.

Figured I'd try the other tact after railing.

Given the fact that they clearly have time and energy to do previews, they could at least give a reason for why their original schedule went out the window and how long it's likely to be before the product is actually released. Leaving the fans of the game to check the Upcoming page every day, gradually losing heart and abandoning the game, just seems pointless.

Hellfury said: "But I am bothered by trying to throw money at a company and then having to instruct them on how to catch it."

- - - Nicely put, Hellfury.

No one should be catching your money for a new version of something if it's not yet available, no matter what it is.

oldthrashbarg said:

johnny shoes said:

See the quote above yours, Johnny.

FFG are at fault with this expectation. They built it up, with rough estimates on when to expect certain releases. We all know the production industry is not a finely honed blade with precise dates. Anyone who has played FFG games for any length of time realizes that.

The problem is that of communication.

If FFG tell me that a game is going to be available during the winter/spring season of a year, I have ample time to prepare my finances and be able to properly create a budget. This is awesome because nowadays FFG asking a certain price for games produced in china requires such advanced notice.

When that time comes and goes, I use that same funds to buy something else I would like to buy on my wishlist. I am not going to live forever and likewise I am not going to wait forever. By the time it actually does come time for its release any hype I had for it is now long gone along with the funds I originally allocated for it. No big deal, I will buy it later I suppose. But when a trend is perceived, you lose interest all together and question your original decision to buy into such a game in the first place.

This brings us back to communication. If FFG can promote their own items in a very quick fashion (just looking at the front page reveals a schedule rife with newness) they should be able to chime in ocassionally and give an update or really any type of communication in a forum of their own design which could be used for such damage control.

But thats hardly the case here. We are left to make assumptions and excuses for why FFG have such huge delays. I am always welcome to being corrected by those who are employed at FFG and know something more than their clueless consumer base. But thats not something they seem very interested in which begs the question of why have these forums in the first place? Especially when at least half of all posts predominantly consist of kvetching of one kind or another. It could be easily fixed and yet they seem to have hardly any inclination of doing so. It seems hardly professional if you ask me. I prefer to throw my money at businesses whom I do not have to instruct on how to catch it.

There is no dirge of other game and hobbies I can give my funds dedicated towards leisure activities to which merit notable patronage.

We then enter the vicious cycle of self fulfilling prophecy I have already noted twice before.

What this implies is that if you lessen support (i.e. communication) for a product, less people buy it. The less people buy it, the less FFG dedicate support to it. The less FFG support it the less people buy it. Etc. Etc. Etc. This is a proven failure engaged in by gaming companies. GW and their Dark Eldar product are perfect example of this phenomenon. The bean counters note that DE are not a great seller so they pull all product from store shelves and make it direct only. Now even less people buy it because there is less exposure for that product. So the bean counters tell designers that they should not do anything for DE at all and perhaps that line should even be dropped. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I do not have a MBA or any financially related education of collegiate degree, but even such things are obvious to me that you must spend money (communication) to make money in the long run. To not do so implies a very short term profit aspect. Such short term profit aspect implies that a game could go the way of the do-do very easily.

I frankly do not buy into Christian Peterson's explanation that they promote every game as if it is their only game (see the Battle of westeros lassiter expansion in the news section) because if this were true then you would see COC promoted as vigorously as warhammer invasion is. But likely due to the cost of licensing is greater for GW than it is for Chaosium and because they want to ride the hype train that GW enjoys, we see less for COC than we do for W:I. More self fulfilling prophecy. Logic simply defies Christian's explanation.

I'm fine with Hellfury's post above. But Marius' article and spoils are far from tired. They're GREAT! Recognize that they themselves are the actual sign of life for our game, weekly, reliably. Thanks, Marius.

johnny shoes said:

I take GREAT umbrage with taking my post out of context, Johnny.

I said I was tired of being teased. I didn't say his articles and spoils tire me. Big difference there. But whatever. See things however you wish to see them. Obviously, I come off to you as an ingrate who takes great pleasure in being nancy negatron. I am done defending a subjective position which doesn't need to be defended.

[edit]

I see there is a stealth edit to your post which I quoted. Even after the change my position still stands. You now have one less person here to discuss this game with. I have had quite enough of this foolishness.

I actually edited my post to make it less pointed. Still, I was defending our scribe. And you used his platform to continue the challenges we're discussing here.

One does what one must. I hope all voices return to this forum. With the challenges of today's posts, I think we still expressed our views on the game very well. Our posts show we care. Marius' article was the Friday news, but we had another debate, with emotion. I still think that good. It's not like the thread derailed. Where is the expansion, that is the now-fraying question.

johnny shoes said:

While it's better to have those previews than not, they hardly constitute 'support' for the game. It seems bizarre that FFG should continue to publish them as if nothing had happened. I don't see any good reason why they shouldn't post a notice about what is going on with Secrets of Arkham.

If there had been no delay, there would clearly be no point in doing the previews now (i.e. May). The previews (and especially doing three of them) just look like attempts to make it appear as if something is happening with the game, while avoiding giving anything away on the MASSIVE delay to Secrets of Arkham so as to avoid bad publicity.

Card games in their infancy (with a limited card base, as CoC LCG arguably still is) are delicate things. Players who pick up the game early on in its evolution when it has limited potential will be unsure as to whether or not to commit to the game, while players who come to the game later may be daunted by the number of expansions needed to play with the veterans. It is therefore important for the producers of a card game to generate significant interest early on, and then sustain that interest through the early stages of the game through showing that they themselves are committed. If FFG is serious about trying to revive CoC as an LCG, it seems the height of folly to squander the goodwill of their existing players like this, convincing increasing numbers by their silence that there is no future to the game.

Disappointing.

Hmm... It's curious. What I see is that there were some delays in getting the game out. Yes, it would be nice for those few of us who frequent the forums to get some info with projections or just plain old "Sorry guys - shipment stuck in Customs" or whatever. But I also suspect that the employees of FFG have other tasks to accomplish than smoothing our feathers, and those other tasks might seem more important to their supervisors.

But I figure the bottom line is that FFG is trying to make money. My assumptions is they are not conspiring against us, they are not making stupid business decisions, they are just trying to do things right so they stay in business in a difficult economic time.

i think its well known that ffg is a company that makes great games but otherwise seems to suck at everything else. maybe its the norm with board game companies but it really seems they dont care about their customers. its like 100% product, 0% customer. the funny thing is i dont seem to get the impression that ffg has anything close to 'apple' fanboys. might be because of the treatment of customers that they dont have any fanboys....

In no way am I promoting the quashing of public debate

but when a forum member has a legitimate concern it's frustrating

to see no response by FFG and on top of that constant excuses made for

FFG by the 'cheerleaders' on these forums. A difference of opinion is one

thing but to go to such lengths to dismiss someone's conclusions

is petty to say the least. It's good to get these issues out there, who knows

maybe someone at FFG will decide to take action in response to our posts.

It has happened on rare occasions in the past. If the concerns are constantly

diminished by 'fanboy' excuses then the slim chance of that happening is

further lessened. Can we not agree that there is a communication gap in the

release of this product and that it would benefit the community as well as

sales to correct this?

I can wait.

Reading this thread I can understand Blizzard's stance regarding release dates a lot better.

@Hybrid: The _real_ indicator for 'fanboism' is the whining I'm seeing here. This goes beyond 'legitimate concerns'.

I also sincerely doubt that releasing sets late will affect sales in any noticable way (aside from the obvious delay). In the end anyone interested in the game _will_ buy the sets.

About the worst thing I could imagine happening is CoC buyers switching to a different LCG (assuming other LCGs weren't affected by delays). But there might even be a positive effect: To get their fix the CoC buyers spend their money on a different LCG, get hooked and buy sets for both LCGs in the future.

So, unless a LCG buyer loses interest in the LCG concept as a whole, FFG won't lose a single customer. Or is there any other company offering a LCG?

well our small play group did lose a player, and i think some of it had to do with the way ffg has handled coc lately... and to think a delay wont hurt sales seems alittle off. they spend time and money (most likely) to advertise this stuff, and the non-diehards will save up money or whatever then when months go buy and they still cant buy they just give up.

blizzard doesnt release advance release dates cause they really dont have any. they have always taken the stance 'the game will be released when it is perfect.' so maybe ffg shouldnt announce dates until they can 100% promise its release.

because of this delay i probably wont be getting the expansion until way later. or if at all. my summer classes start up in june and i wont be able to run CoC for like 3 months, and since the other guy has stopped playing already, that may freeze our small play group until end of summer and by then who knows..........but this is ffg so maybe the set will only just be coming out in the fall. i was planning on getting 2 sets so ill have a playset of cards, but if the play group dies ill only need one for my collection.

if release dates dont matter why does the video game and movie business work so hard to make it happen? most people have budgets and they wanna have some fun.....they wont wait forever for something, they will spend the money on taking their girlfriend to the movies, buy some tv show season, or whatever.

If I dismissed another member's conclusions, I do apologize.