35 minutes ago, Nspace said:

See, you use the word instead here. The rebel Han Solo gunner card does not. Compare to Torkil Mux, Roark Garnet or Heightened Perception, which all use the word instead as a replacement effect (page 2 of the rules reference). Currently, as written and without an errata or FAQ, I would argue that Han is not a replacement for the normal initiative attack, but a special case that allows a extra attack that is specifically separate from a bonus attack.

32 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I think you and HolySorc are arguing the same points here.

23 minutes ago, Nspace said:

Could be. I've be a part of conversations about Han were the ability to fire at both I7 and at the pilots normal initiative was in question, so I might be seeing everything through those glasses. My apologies to HolySorcerer for misunderstanding if that is the case.

The post of mine that you quoted was a comparison between Han and VTG, thus my use of the word "instead" where I was contrasting their differences. Han absolutely is an additional attack, and the confusion is baffling.

My only hypothesis is the use of the word "bonus" by FFG to be a limiting factor, and people are intuiting it to mean "additional" or "extra" instead, and are confusing themselves into thinking that an additional attack must be a "bonus" otherwise it must be a replacement.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

My only hypothesis is the use of the word "bonus" by FFG to be a limiting factor, and people are intuiting it to mean "additional" or "extra" instead, and are confusing themselves into thinking that an additional attack must be a "bonus" otherwise it must be a replacement.

Yeah, I think FFG dropped the ball on the language here. It's intuitive to use the word "bonus" to describe any additional attack granted by a card, but "bonus attack" is now a special mechanic that applies to only some of the extra attacks granted by cards.

I can't see why they'd want Han to be the one card that makes three attacks per round possible, so my guess is that RAI it's a bonus attack and it somehow slipped through editing. If not, though, they should have added text like "this does not count as a bonus attack" for clarification.

They'd want Han to attack multiple times because he's

A.) Expensive

B.) Explicitly prevents double dipping with the same turret

C.) Any additional bonus attack can thus far only be granted by cluster missiles...whoopdiedo

Sure, there's no balance problem with Han allowing two cluster missiles attack afterwards. I just don't see why they'd mess up a simple, intuitive system where all extra attacks are "bonus attacks" and create all this confusion just to enable Han plus cluster missiles.

Either way it will be in the FAQ and it will work out okay. I can just see this one as a real interpretation issue between casual players where they'll need the FAQ, which implies to me they should have been better about the wording whichever way they intended it.

I'm 90% positive Han will be errataed to be a bonus attack at I7.

Why not just use Bistan? Most lists will probably be either swarms or big ship plus support. Easy enough to catch two things in arc.

Edit: I mean on Dash.

Eh, I don't like Bistan necessitating focus action (already useless on Leebo) or him costing 14 **** points

Gunner Han with missiles is janky, but you can at least hit the same target twice

Probably decent on pilot Han , but you may want agile gunner there

Plus slight competition with mf title (evade) given Han's ability let's you reroll twice

You can go perceptive + jyn to get both (124, or 125 with trickshot) but then you're really up **** Creek when you have to boost

48 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Eh, I don't like Bistan necessitating focus action (already useless on Leebo) or him costing 14 **** points

Gunner Han with missiles is janky, but you can at least hit the same target twice

Probably decent on pilot Han , but you may want agile gunner there

Plus slight competition with mf title (evade) given Han's ability let's you reroll twice

You can go perceptive + jyn to get both (124, or 125 with trickshot) but then you're really up **** Creek when you have to boost

I'm using Bistan and Lando on Han pilot. Reroll those Lando dice, get title rerolls and Bistan bonus attack. Even if I don't get both, either is worth having.

Unless you are really worried about swarms, Concussion Missiles and Veteran Turret Gunner might yield better results than Han and clusters. Dash (or leebo) wants to stay out of range 1, and concussion missiles could help you snipe from farther away while dealing it some extra crits.

On 9/1/2018 at 7:08 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

I'm 90% positive Han will be errataed to be a bonus attack at I7.

They don’t need to errata him. They need to change the rules reference.

As it’s stands a bonus attack is a very specific attack that happens in the aftermath phase of an attack. You can have a defensive (Dengar, probably Quickdraw) or offensive (many gunners) bonus attack.

Han allows you to shoot at I7. His ability is not during the aftermath phase so it cannot be considered a bonus attack. This is the problem.

Even if they wanted Han to only attack once at I7 and then once when the ship engages for 2 maximum attacks, they wrote the bonus attack rules in such a way that neither the Han attack or the engage attack can be considered bonus attacks.

If they intended Han to not be limited by the Bonus Attack rules then there isn’t really much of an issue.

Either way you can’t really errata Han because he cannot work as bonus attack. They first need to change how a Bonus Attack works and is written in the rules reference, which is better overall solution anyway.

A clarification is probably what will happen, clarifying the ability one way or the other, even if it ends up being a RAI ruling.

Thinking of going a different direction with Dash's build and wingman(men). A Partisan U-Wing and a filler Z-95 may be worth exploring. Great blockers and the U-Wing gives access to coordinate. But I'm mostly excited about two Rigged Cargo Chutes clogging up the battlefield, think that will be a nightmare for a lot of lists trying to pin down Dash.

Partisan Renegade — U-Wing 43

Rigged Cargo Chute 4

"Chopper" (Crew) 2

Hera Syndulla 4

Pivot Wing 0

Ship Total: 53

Bandit Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 23

Ship Total: 23

Dash Rendar — YT-2400 100

Trick Shot 1

Lando Calrissian 5

Outrider 14

Rigged Cargo Chute 4

Ship Total: 124

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 11:23 PM, StriderZessei said:

Why not just use Bistan? Most lists will probably be either swarms or big ship plus support. Easy enough to catch two things in arc.

Edit: I mean on Dash.

Because with a bit of careful flying with Han you can get two shots on the same guy - if you can line up a corner arc line directly through their base.

No, it's not easy, but double-arcing a target (especially a larger base) is a thing you see quite often in armada for precisely the same reason.

This way, you can put a cluster missile shot and han's turret shot into the same guy.

Although, you could do this with a veteran turret gunner, too, unless you're absolutely determined to fling the bonus attack from cluster missiles at someone else.

On 7/27/2018 at 11:47 PM, Astech said:

: skilled Dash players master the art of landing Dash's closest corner to the enemy on a rock -

I didn’t think Dash could shoot off a rock?

19 minutes ago, drail14me said:

I didn’t think Dash could shoot off a rock?

Meaning debris, naturally. Even in 2.0 debris is far more synergistic with the Outrider title than asteroids.

19 hours ago, Astech said:

Meaning debris, naturally. Even in 2.0 debris is far more synergistic with the Outrider title than asteroids.

Especially since the consequence of moving through it is a red token which the Outrider (even if it's not Dash) can immediately bin off (since it's assigned after check difficulty but before the manoeuvre is 'finished').

I'm not massively pleased that the Outrider title effectively hands YT-2400s an updated version of Black One.