In the Red corner, we see the hero of the rebellion, Wedge Antilles, The Red Leader. A truly fearsome pilot, ignoring the agility of his enemies, while destroying them with the impressive array of stats available to his craft.

With a natural 3 red dice, 2 green, 4 hull and 2 shields, the X-wing is a surprisingly tough ship. Behind the pilot, you can find a number of helpful droids, eager to help the rebellion with their slave labor, only to be seen as annoyance by everyone.

In the Grey corner, we have the Ace of Legend, the one and only, Soontir Fel. Sporting a superior dial and an agility value of 3, and the use of special thrusters, Soontir can easily use his superior Initiative... oh... they are the same. Nevermind, surely, his craft can sustain the blows from the superior attack of the X-wing, don't forget, Wedge has access to a targeting computer.. oh. So, he has half as much hitpoints, including no shields at all.. Nevermind that, the TIE craft are incredibly modular, being able to equip multiple modifications allows this ship to take up battle against Wedge... oh... So... every upgrade he wants to take is extremely expensive... Well, even then, Soontir can easily outmaneuver his opponent, catch them in their firing arc to get a free focus... oh... sorry, that's Wedge... Soontir has to get them in a bullseye arc, which is much more difficult...

Clearly, Soontir is sitting in a more fragile, less powerful craft, his wingmen can help him out in the battle... oh... so they... cost the same...

Both ships have a ship ability (X-Wing has a configuration, but is it pretty much the same). True, the Interceptor's is a bit better, but in reality, it's just linked actions.

Both ships are max IN.

Wedge's ability is easier to use and is similarly powerful.

It has 1 less agility... BUT DOUBLE THE HEALTH (WITH SHIELDS!!!)

Sure Fel can token stack, but catching an IN 6 small ship in bullseye arc is pretty hard.

And he can still blank out. And then Wedge can one shot him.

Tell me how is this fair.

It isn't.

Yeah, Wedge does feel a bit too inexpensive and Fel a bit too expensive.

If only there were some way to adjust the point values.

8 minutes ago, stuffedskullcat said:

If only there were some way to adjust the point values.

Also if only somebody could git gud.

9 minutes ago, stuffedskullcat said:

If only there were some way to adjust the point values.

If only another thread already existed on this topic.

Wedge antillies, the only rebel pilot who can hold a candle to Baron Soonter Fel. On a Flip of a coin, Fel can still fly rings around him. But if the Xwing ace can pin the Imperial Loyalist down, that's an honorable win for Wedge.

Make it any other rebel pilot short of Han Solo, and there isnt even a coin flip involved. Hows Wedge feel about Double Deci + Howlrunner?

Boost plus barrel roll at I6 is pretty darn good. How often was Vader played in 1e without engine upgrade? Soontir pays for having access to both.

12 minutes ago, Dunderwood said:

Boost plus barrel roll at I6 is pretty darn good. How often was Vader played in 1e without engine upgrade? Soontir pays for having access to both.

So... Wedge has both as well. Can't use them both in the same turn without outside assistance, but he can use one of those.

14 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Wedge antillies, the only rebel pilot who can hold a candle to Baron Soonter Fel. On a Flip of a coin, Fel can still fly rings around him. But if the Xwing ace can pin the Imperial Loyalist down, that's an honorable win for Wedge.

Make it any other rebel pilot short of Han Solo, and there isnt even a coin flip involved. Hows Wedge feel about Double Deci + Howlrunner?

Like any single pilot would feel against a full list?

25 minutes ago, SnooSnarry said:

Also if only somebody could git gud.

I say it slowly this time, maybe you can understand it.

Skill only matters if there is a difference between the two players, therefore, a discussion of game balance is not the place where you bring up skill.

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

So... Wedge has both as well. Can't use them both in the same turn without outside assistance, but he can use one of those.

Like any single pilot would feel against a full list?

I say it slowly this time, maybe you can understand it.

Skill only matters if there is a difference between the two players, therefore, a discussion of game balance is not the place where you bring up skill.

Keep making excuses and you will never actually git gud. Stop whining, go play, learn to overcome whatever uphill battle you think you are going against through making better decisions.

MUH IMPERIALS!

I LOVE IT! The point costs have been out for less than 12 hours and people are already whining about grave imbalances and calling for errata.

Ah, 2.0 may address some of the game-play issues that were bogging X-Wing down, but methinks not even 2.0 can save the X-Wing Community from itself...

it's because arc dodging

but also to reinforce just how little value you should be placing on green dice, doubly so in the case of Wedge's ability + pricing

so really, FFG's heart is in the right place

22 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I LOVE IT! The point costs have been out for less than 12 hours and people are already whining about grave imbalances and calling for errata.

Ah, 2.0 may address some of the game-play issues that were bogging X-Wing down, but methinks not even 2.0 can save the X-Wing Community from itself...

No. It appears that some will never be happy. Here I thought it’d be at least September 13th before this type of stuff started. The whining is never ending.

I think it's likely Wedge is a bit underpriced and Soontir is a bit overpriced, but I don't think it's that dramatic. A 50/52 or 51/53 split at the first update wouldn't surprise me.

But it's also worth mentioning that Wedge likely winds up considerably more expensive than Soonts after upgrades. He's got more slots, and more of them feel necessary. X-Wings want an astromech at the very least. If you're running bare chassis vs bare chassis, I actually think it's pretty close to a fair fight.

Actually, you're supposed to Arc-dodge with Soontir Fel....

so you wouldn't get hit by Wedges ability most of the time. Meanwhile you could fire yourself.

To make things a little more difficult for Soontir, his own offensive ability triggers in bullseye only.

Why? Because if played right, he'll most probably be able to fire himself, while not getting shot at. That's how you do it and how you have to adjust your squad point costs to get things done.

There is no VI anymore, so moving last will work most of the time.

The Squad point costs are just perfect now, at first sight. And if there is a problem, FFG will be able to adjust them.

How about waiting for 2.0 to come and let some tournaments pass before screaming for a nerf?

20 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

The Squad point costs are just perfect now, at first sight. And if there is a problem, FFG will be able to adjust them.

How about waiting for 2.0 to come and let some tournaments pass before screaming for a nerf?

If something is blatantly off balance, why wait months to point it out and fix it when you can point it out now and get a fix by release?

27 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

If something is blatantly off balance, why wait months to point it out and fix it when you can point it out now and get a fix by release? 

Because there has not been a single tournament, yet.

Competetive play will tell, if something is off balance, not just a few self-proclaimed X-Wing experts on a forum, months before the game gets released.

Yes, there will be some things to adjust... but most probably nothing we are discussing about right now.

FWIW Soontir is clearly better than Wedge in 2.0

The thing is that Soontir seems legit at as low as 54 points (just Predator). He can be made better with Hull Upgrade, Afterburners, whatever, but it's not strictly needed.

There's huge value to being the cheapest I6, who is also the 2nd most maneuverable (behind Reflex Vader).

I'm happy to run Soontir naked at 52, especially if Sai is in the squad.

Exactly. Give Soontir Juke or Predator - or just run him naked. Dont compare his 1 on 1 capabilities with wedge, thats not the only fight he'll be in. Enjoy him as a cheap Ace.

And now you see why the Rebellion won

I'd also imagine they're balancing based on 1.9 experience

You know, where Soonrir dominated until torpscouts stole the show

While Wedge dominated...the Plano box he was left in?

It probably also explains why the Punisher is actually reasonably priced and why Duchess is a crime with how cheap he/she is

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I'd also imagine they're balancing based on 1.9 experience

You know, where Soonrir dominated until torpscouts stole the show

While Wedge dominated...the Plano box he was left in?

It probably also explains why the Punisher is actually reasonably priced and why Duchess is a crime with how cheap he/she is

Duchess is insanely cheap. The strikers aren’t as sturdy without LWF (and yes, I know the power level has come down), but they’re going to be wicked interesting to fly.