3 minutes ago, Mediocrevan said:

No damage output? Vessery basically has old Fire control systems built into him. He doesn't even need a 2nd ship to lock them anymore, he just has to use target lock once, or even Rexlar target locks once and starts him going. Rexlar, meanwhile, can have FCS to get a reroll, plus something like predator as well. So he can easily get mods on his shots, and with a white 4k it's relatively easy to line up those bullseyes .

Vessery works the same as he always did, he needs someone else to lock the target for him.

Against Rexlar + Vessery you focus down Rexlar, then kill the ability-less Vessery. It's two three-dice attacks a turn, their offense is very low for their points.

Here's the thing about a 72 point Delta. It's the equivalent of 36 points in 1e. Thus exactly the cost of a 1e Delta (28) + Engine Upgrade (4) + Shield Upgrade (4), and it got a slightly better dial.

Defenders cost is what I expected - they're Imperial Brobots

1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's the thing about a 72 point Delta. It's the equivalent of 36 points in 1e. Thus exactly the cost of a 1e Delta (28) + Engine Upgrade (4) + Shield Upgrade (4), and it got a slightly better dial.

Yeah. There is a reason why people didn't put engine and shield upgrades on defenders.

Plus, with the loss of ptl, 5.actions are.good but they are not worth as much.

Just now, SOTL said:

Defenders cost is what I expected - they're Imperial Brobots

But more expensive with less stuff to do?

Brobots have higher IN, two pilot abilities (good ones at that), and get free calculate tokens.

For less points.

I can see the argument for them being on the lower side of brobots.. but thy are more expensive.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Vessery works the same as he always did, he needs someone else to lock the target for him.

Against Rexlar + Vessery you focus down Rexlar, then kill the ability-less Vessery. It's two three-dice attacks a turn, their offense is very low for their points.

After re-reading Vessery, I was wrong. But even still, Each defender is still hyper defensive. 2 dice ships you need at least 5 focus shots to do 1 damage to them. So that means you gotta keep those 5 ties alive for 14 turns on average to win.

6 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah. There is a reason why people didn't put engine and shield upgrades on defenders.

Plus, with the loss of ptl, 5.actions are.good but they are not worth as much.

But more expensive with less stuff to do?

Brobots have higher IN, two pilot abilities (good ones at that), and get free calculate tokens.

For less points.

I can see the argument for them being on the lower side of brobots.. but thy are more expensive.

Aggressors are medium base ships, so easier to hit, have a worse dial (More green, but no ability to turn around without stress (and free evade action)), 2 more hull, 1 less shield, no focus action, And their title is 2 pts, so the PS 1 defender is equivalent to a bro-bot with title. And a fight between them, the Defender will probably come out on top, due to being able to token stack compared to the aggressor. Also, with the lack of actual damaging canons, IG-88 B's ability got worse except with ion cannon, which is about the same with control lists. Also, Ioning an Aggressor is 100 times worse, as they loose all actions, since Ionizing only lets you do the focus action, which they do not have.

1 minute ago, Mediocrevan said:

After re-reading Vessery, I was wrong. But even still, Each defender is still hyper defensive. 2 dice ships you need at least 5 focus shots to do 1 damage to them. So that means you gotta keep those 5 ties alive for 14 turns on average to win.

Eh, the Krayts did a double defender list vs TIE swarm on vassel a while back. The defender list was very expensive and included mods (which they don't have any more), and it got stomped. It may just be one anecdote, but those guys are good players, and it wasn't even a close game.

20 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah. There is a reason why people didn't put engine and shield upgrades on defenders.

Plus, with the loss of ptl, 5.actions are.good but they are not worth as much.

Mostly, it was just cost. When I was practicing for a mass-defenders Escalation tournament while playing 100/6 casual, I had Hull or Shield on Intensity Ryad and some Deltas, to fill the 10 point difference. Those hit points kinda felt like they mattered.

Engine Upgrade on a Delta makes for one nasty blocker. Is it better overall than a AdvO/FCS/AutoT Sienar at the same 32 points? Probably not, but it's not a bad ship.

Here's my thing: Defenders were really good. One of the best ships by far in 1e. In 2e, they haven't lost anything (and gain more slots and a few dial perks), but they cost more. However, they get nominally fair value for those points. Does it make list building harder? Sure. But the ship looks fine.

Just now, HolySorcerer said:

Eh, the Krayts did a double defender list vs TIE swarm on vassel a while back. The defender list was very expensive and included mods (which they don't have any more), and it got stomped. It may just be one anecdote, but those guys are good players, and it wasn't even a close game.

Tie swarms are also going to be another big gate-keeper list. Probably something like Howl and Iden and 5 acadamy ties. Because offensive modifications are down, there's not a lot of ships that can eat a tie a turn anymore, and even so, Iden stops the first big shot, so you can't torpedo howl out of the game immediately anymore.

3 minutes ago, Mediocrevan said:

Tie swarms are also going to be another big gate-keeper list. Probably something like Howl and Iden and 5 acadamy ties. Because offensive modifications are down, there's not a lot of ships that can eat a tie a turn anymore, and even so, Iden stops the first big shot, so you can't torpedo howl out of the game immediately anymore.

He lost two TIEs. Defenders don't have the offense to be worth half your list.

Before points are revealed: "it's ok if they get something wrong because they can just change the points"

After points are revealed: "WTF!!!" *flips table*

1 hour ago, Rossetti1828 said:

5 TIE Strikers with Conner Nets or Shield Upgrades

Ooh, the Shield Upgrade sounds intriguing. But there's no way I'm buying a second Conversion Kit to run TIE strikers. I'll wait and buy the 2.0 TIE striker expansion when it comes out.

In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out the best list with 3 TIE strikers and a TIE reaper. It's fun trying to see what I can equip them with!

Also they used Defenders with mods. Did they know Defenders could take system slots? Sounds like this example completely and totally reflects 2e not at all like it really is.

11 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Before points are revealed: "it's ok if they get something wrong because they can just change the points"

After points are revealed: "WTF!!!" *flips table*

More like:

This ship is bad

"Wait for point costs, you can't complain"

Now with points: the ship is still bad

"Can you stop complaining, they will change it"

...

2 hours ago, piznit said:

So no TripleBots huh. 70 points each base

They were 36 ea. before.

Also, they just won Worlds.

Got amused about the idea of putting Jabba on a scum Falcon, but without Glitterstim, which of the six illicit upgrades can benefit from his ability?

5 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

Got amused about the idea of putting Jabba on a scum Falcon, but without Glitterstim, which of the six illicit upgrades can benefit from his ability?

Rigged Cargo Chute, Contraband Cybernetics.

Edit - Others as well, but those are where I would go.

3 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well... Now I feel like an ***.

It's okay. You only owe half the bragging rights I would have. (I gave you 2:1 remember?) ?

3 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

Early observations:

Scum Han Solo seems cheap at 54, Luke Skywalker at 62 is not that much of a uptick due to the Force (he was 29.0 in 1.0) so that's a minor adjustment. Tie Defenders (LOL ? )

30 point for Luke gunner that is obviously not enough

I think it is clear now that quick build cards are not always going to be legal builds in standard. Which makes sense. If you are going to squeeze all pilots into one of only 5 cost categories you will have a hard time unless you can give them an extra push to make them worth a full threat rating bump.

Wait what the tarnation.

Scum Han with title and an Autopilot Drone docked is TWENTY points cheaper than Rebel Han.

And his Gunner card is only 4 points?!?

What is going on with these prices? There’s no way these are correct.

2 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

What does EU do now?

Afterburners is a closer equivalent to 1.0 engine upgrade.

19 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out the best list with 3 TIE strikers and a TIE reaper. It's fun trying to see what I can equip them with!

My first pass:

• Duchess (42)
  • Predator (2)
  • Afterburners (8)
• Countdown (44)
  • Crack Shot (1)
  • Stealth Device (6)
• Pure Sabbac (44)
  • Crack Shot (1)
  • Stealth Device (6)
• Vizier (45)
  • Electronic Baffle (2)

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Countdown (44)

• Crack Shot (1)
• Stealth Device (6) 

ooh Countdown got an EPT!

Shame that Redline didn't.

Okay on a more serious note.

They seem to put more of a point value on force powers as Wedge a Int 6 cost less than Luke at Int 5. I don't know if that is because currently the only int adjustments are force upgrade or not.

I still don't see the Red Squadron Veterans or any other "veteran" type generic being taken because it is the same problem as 1st edition. 2 points to get weaker by raising the pilot skill. Just like the best pilot skill was 1 and 9 the best initiative value is 1 and 6.

For the most parts take 1.0 and double it. For some things that needed help (i.e. X-wings) -1 point. So it is still 8 Tie Fighters, 4 X-wings, 5 Kihraxs Ect. If you could run 6 A-wing in 1st edition then you cant run 4 TIE Defenders in 2nd edition, but you can run 7 TIE Fighters.

Needless to say I still think meta will be Int 6 or bust. But yeah expect these points to be adjusted after worlds.

It might start little at first with +/- 1 point here and +/- 1 point there (that really is what most of these point costs are) then next year I think we could see more dramatic corrections such as +/- 10 points