I'm surprised at all the negative reactions to the newest book in the DH line. I have been waiting for Ascension for a long time (I pre-ordered it last June I think) and I'm quite happy to have finally got my hands on it. I have been playing DH since it came out. I'm currently running a game (1-2 times a week), playing in a game (1-2 times a week), and running a Rogue Trader game nearly once a week (my schedule will get even crazier when Deathwatch comes out). I think the long wait for the book had people expecting something they didn't get. To be honest I didn't have expectations beyond it would be a book allowing me to advance characters up to the interrogators and inquisitors and have a handful of other paths and cool advanced skills/talents/gear etc.

To be honest I haven't had time to read the book cover to cover, but what I have seen and read I'm really excited about. The people I play with are also very excited (and have read more than I have). When I first heard about a 40K rpg I was skeptical, but I think what has been done so far is great. When FFG took over I was worried, but they've done an awesome job.

My only complaints with any of the DH/RT line is some editing errors which have been addressed in errata, the lack of a good index in the IH, and some of the layout of the adventures (which can be taken care of by me making my own notes).

I think the book is great, I just wish I had it in my hands sooner (my wife's character is at 24,000 and has been itching to ascend to interrogator for months).

I am in agreement Hereticool. I think that people were waiting for this for a while and expectations were blown out of proportion.

The book does what it says. It allows DH Players to Ascend their characters to the next tier of play.

I posted a positive review of it... buried in one of the negative threads so it likely doesn't count.

6Kilgs said:

I did the same thing.

But [whine whine whine whine whine] ! And the Vindicare is [whine whine whine whine whine] . And Paragon Talents/Mastered Skills are [whine whine whine whine whine] . And with the new Ascended Psychic powers a Psyker can [whine whine whine whine whine] . It's the most [whine] book FFG has ever [whined] !

Now that that's out of the way:



I think Ascension is awesome. The book itself is quite rough around the edges, with numerous formatting errors found on lots of pages even with my brief look through, but the content is solid. There are rules issues (how do you fight an Assassin that Dodges everything 115% of the time?), but looks to be a great 'Next Step' for characters.

Hereticool said:

I ******* hate you. At least tell me you have some incurable disease...

I've only had the book for about 36 hrs. now, and have only scanned through it, reading random things that caught my eye in greater depth but, so far, it's not a bad book at all. It certainly meets my expectations, and in regards to the Influence system, exceeds it as I thought it was going to be just a copy/paste of the Profit factor from RT with some name changes, so, definite pleasant surprise there! In fact, out of everything, that has to be my favourite section so far. The amount of possibilities the Influence as presented along with the Influence Talents opens up is just mouth-watering.

The rest of the book, well, I still have some reading to do. So far, I'm actually glad the weapon/equipment section is so slim. There's already enough hardware floating around, not much more is truly needed. This, of course, comes from someone who thinks the IH was the low water-mark of sourcebooks.

I haven't read all the careers in detail as of yet, but the ones I have read (those most likely to be selected by my playgroup) I've liked. In description and in possibility they seem a lot livelier then the RT careers. There's been some talk of flat and boring careers and the Crusader being one of them, though it seems, from it's description, to be a nice direction with a good bit of story potential and atmosphere to it. However, the fact that it has no real influence talents is a strike against it in fun factor, I still know one of my players might be all over it. He's not too big on social influency kinds of things but he dose like hitting stuff with other stuff and is currently playing a cleric... so ya. The other careers that I've read or glanced over all seem like they'd be a bit of fun and great add-on colour extenders for the core DH careers. I can see where they might be a touch bland on their own, but they'll only ever exist as an addition to a DH career, and in that role, they seem a hell of a lot more exciting.

While a lot of the info on the Inquisitorial factions is repeated in RH, I don't see this as a problem. In this book, that information is NEEDED and not everyone who gets this book would have gotten RH or have read it since it's much more of a niche book... especially for the players, and they're the ones who need to know the factions especially if one of their number will be playing an Inquisitor.

I was hopping there'd be a bit more info and depth on how various organizations of the Imperuim operate and how the various powers interact, but I reckon it's only one book. I didn't expect this to have such, I was just hopping, so no failed expectations there.

I've glanced over the GM section and it seems like it has some nice things to say perhaps, some nice specific themes for an ascended campaign and, from what I recall, some talk on how to approach such a monster. I feel it'll be worth the read.

On the downside, the few pages of additional Slought material isn't all that great. I like that race and have enjoyed terrorizing the PCs with them. Not only did they have a nice ambiance to them but they truly were alien things. The bits I've read in their few pages describing that one fella in ascension just makes them out to be... less alien then they were.

Another low-point for me is the character sheet which is, in my opinion, a complete fail. Someone obviously didn't get the mission statement about the point and purpose of Paragon Talents and Mastered Skills. Other things could be added (like contacts, network notes, and other things that help put the players and the game into an ascended mindest), there's so much waisted space on the psychic powers sheet it makes me cry and the overall layout is scattered and half-assed (the mutations up and ran as far as they could from the corruption and malignancies, armour is on one side of the sheet while all other combat type things are on the other, etc. I'll definitely be sitting down and hammering up a modified version of this sheet to eliminate a lot of the waist and clean up the layout a bit, get it to make a bit more sense and what-not.

Either way, all said, so far the only two things I don't much like about the book are terribly minor things, though I'm not through with it yet. Before getting it, all the math madness going on almost got me to thinking that it'd be nothing but a book of crazy tables and hugely boosted stats that would make Dragonball-Z and Exalted cry. I'm glad that was an unfounded fear. In the end, as for the negative takes on the book, people tend to be a lot more active and vocal about things when they are displeased as opposed to content. Just visualize content and malcontent and see which one will be more prone to voicing their opinion ;-)

Id like to post my agreement that i think this book is awesome.After reading it my only thought was that i wanted more.More fluff,more equipment,more bad guys.I thought contrary to what a few here and on other 40k sites have said; I think ascension does EXACTLY what it says.I wasnt expecting character balance per se.What i wanted was a inquistor class that was more powerfull and could deal with the more powerful demons,corrupt govenors,etc.,and i got that .I hope the writers know that there several people inlcuding many from the group i game in that thought they did a great job.Nuff said for now.

Kyorou said:

**** straight. Explain yourself! I barely manage to GM or play once a week at best!

egalor said:

It's simply a matter of priorities and time management. The length of time I play is usually only about 3-4 hours not like back in the days of being in high school when I could have marathon sessions of D&D, Cyberpunk, or play 40K TT for 8-9 hours straight (playing huge battles in the Rogue Trader days took forever, even 2nd edition was much slower than the later editions). I don't watch much TV, we don't have reception or cable so it's just the occasionally DVD now and then. I suppose the biggest advantage is my wife plays, and she is more of an addict than I am. So we play usually Tues and Thursday nights and then Sat. and/or Sun. Of course I only play the 40k TT game every couple months, and most of my figs are unpainted still after all these years since it's hard to be disciplined about painting them. I work a full time job plus a part time job and train three nights a week doing martial arts so it's not like I don't have a full schedule.

Hereticool said:

Why you lucky bastard you are!

Do you realise you found a pearl!!!

My GF plays DH (I'm GM) with me and our friends once a week but argue when I go to play another game once every 2 weeks.

The emperor sure shine on your soul!!!

Back to the topic. I agree with most of what you say regarding Ascencion. The problem or more specifically the question to me remain as how to make a whole of the 2 games (DH & RT). It was still possible before Ascension. The variations between different power levels makes it a nightmare if you want to be fair with everone...

Grimtooth

I just felt the need to say that Ascension was a great book. There were a few things that I don't like, but a few quick fixes and things are fine.

Come on guys!!

Raise your game!

The HATER reviews are (on the whole) in-depth, reasoned, full reviews based on proper comprehensive read-throughs.

'I've not read it but Ascension is awesome', just doesn't cut it.

Come on! Post up some proper reviews! Tell the world WHY this apparently hated supplement is actually brilliant.

I really want to read some positive reviews that are as reasoned as the negative ones.

Luddite said:

Theres already a positive review up on RPGNET.I highly doubt those that dont like the book will be swayed much as there expectation are either grounded in number crunching(sad) or character balance(again very sad).What i find amazing is why so many people that complain about this book or any other book that this company puts out still buy FFG's products if there soo unhappy?Apparently with the amount of negativity with this book in general they apparently have much better ideas on how to write up ascension.Ill await patiently for them to publish there ideas(cue in sarcasm).

I have thought about writing up a postive review on this book but honestly can say that doing book reviews are not my thing.Sad excuse i know but true.Its always been said that those that are unhappy with something are more apt to complain then those that are happy or content with something.I think that holds very true with this book.If people are trying to decide if they should buy this book or not then take a carefull look at the negative reviews.If they disagree with them then they know the books for them.Personally as i said before i thought the book was worth every penny.I wont argue with someone over character balance or number crunchy because in our gaming group we use something called common sense.It seems to work wonders for any game we play.

miles1739 said:

Yeah, they should go buy their 40K rpg books from one of the other companies publishing 40k rpg books ... oh wait ...

Adam France said:

No;they should instead to continue to constantly complain from the only company thats producing them now

miles1739 said:

Or they should state what they like and dont like about any product they have purchased. This it the only FFG 40K product I feel was that subpar as to be worth complaining about.

miles1739 said:

Perhaps if enough people complain when they see the same problems as others (as seems to be the case with Ascension at least) ... those problems won't crop up in future products.

Short of never buying any of that thing ever again (in this case any 40k rpg book) customers only real recourse when dealing with a monopoly is to complain when they don't like something about a product they've bought.

It's typical in the case of a monopoly too, that some people don't like others complaining, out of fear the one source of the product in question will dry up. Hence the 'poor FFG having to listen to their customer's complaints ' posts we see across these boards.

Adam i would never agree that you or anyone else should never complain about a product d/t that company is the sole producer of such game.But comon,you have to admit the amount of hate towards this product is IMO just alittle excessive and unwarranted.Im not saying the book isnt perfect or even there best product;but it doesnt deserve the negative lynch mob that its getting either.

miles1739 said:

Seems to me the reviews are pretty evenly split. Its a 50/50 book. So why should people be limited to one negative post or thread? If people dont like it, at least they are classy enough to say why and to who instead of just quitting and moving to another game or system. Most of these people (such as me) saying things about Ascension are doing so because we actually like and care about Dark Heresy and are concerned where it is headed. And if Ascension and RT are any indication, Deathwatch may be in terrible danger.

Peacekeeper_b said: