11 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

I know...I KNOW! But...so costly. Do we have confirmation on the wording of adv. Sensors? Do you skip perform action step, or are you not allowed to take another action?

If you can't take another action, then that stops you from getting your free evade.

Either way, yes you have unblockable white K-turns with your super ship.

But if your action was going to be blocked, then you wouldn't have gotten that free Evade anyway. At least AS will help you fully complete the maneuver.

15 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

You lose your free evade. But a barrel roll or boost before doing a k turn or other maneuver to basically get wedges ability is still strong.

What are you talking about? What wedge? Where?

Just now, Commander Kaine said:

What are you talking about? What wedge? Where?

The part of the discussion where we were talking about outmaneuver and advanced sensors on the Defender.

Soontir with just Predator is 54 points, a 27 point filler in 1e. I think that's kind of reasonable.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

But good lord, the cost reductions on Bombers and Punishers is kind of nuts.

I kinda wish they weren't quite as cheap, but had a point cost reduction on Ordnance. Being super cheap opens up awkward strategies where they're better to take without ordnance. I'm not sure the best squad, but running a chubby swarm 4 + Howlrunner + Iden Verso still has 8 spare points...

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Holy ****, I ******* called it!

The phantom Test Pilot is a measly THREE points more than the Blue Xwing

The talent bearing Sigma with Juke clocks in at 50, is the same as the old ps 3 Sigma

For the cost of one red die, you get 1 hull, a far superior Stygium FO FREE, higher I, AND juke

Phantom reign inc

Any thoughts on how you'd kit out a Phantom?

Krennic being only 5 and giving the TL action might actually be worthwhile, and it'd support another ship. Oh god. Vessery.

Whisper with Krennic and FCS is 60 points, Vessery is 88. Only leaves 52 for a 3rd ship and the rest of the upgrades. He'll need at least Juke, to be sure. Add in Duchess at 42, Trick Shot for Whisper, and there are still 3 wiggle points (1 with an upgrade of Duchess to Countdown or Pure Sabaac). Upgrade Trick Shot to Juke on Whisper...

1 minute ago, All Shields Forward said:

The part of the discussion where we were talking about outmaneuver and advanced sensors on the Defender.

Are you for real bringing up an upgrade that is available to most ships as a unique strength of the defender?

14 (I may misremember, dont quote me on that) extra points spent on being able to do that. Sure,its great but I dont get how an expensive combo makes an already overpriced ship better.

14 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Are you for real bringing up an upgrade that is available to most ships as a unique strength of the defender?

14 (I may misremember, dont quote me on that) extra points spent on being able to do that. Sure,its great but I dont get how an expensive combo makes an already overpriced ship better.

You should probably actually read and you'd know we were discussing the merits of FCS or advanced sensors.

*Also not sure where you're getting the unique strength point from. The only unique thing is how having a sensor slot interacts with the white 4 k but no one said advanced sensors was a defining trait, just pointing out a beneficial interaction.

36 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Soontir with just Predator is 54 points, a 27 point filler in 1e. I think that's kind of reasonable.

I kinda wish they weren't quite as cheap, but had a point cost reduction on Ordnance. Being super cheap opens up awkward strategies where they're better to take without ordnance. I'm not sure the best squad, but running a chubby swarm 4 + Howlrunner + Iden Verso still has 8 spare points...

Any thoughts on how you'd kit out a Phantom?

Krennic being only 5 and giving the TL action might actually be worthwhile, and it'd support another ship. Oh god. Vessery.

Whisper with Krennic and FCS is 60 points, Vessery is 88. Only leaves 52 for a 3rd ship and the rest of the upgrades. He'll need at least Juke, to be sure. Add in Duchess at 42, Trick Shot for Whisper, and there are still 3 wiggle points (1 with an upgrade of Duchess to Countdown or Pure Sabaac). Upgrade Trick Shot to Juke on Whisper...

I had a similar list idea brewing. I like the idea of using the phantom as an unkillable VIP carrier. You could try using it as a Sloan carrier and then back it up with cheap TIE's. I like that better than just throwing sloan on a Reaper or a Lambda.

41 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Soontir with just Predator is 54 points, a 27 point filler in 1e. I think that's kind of reasonable.

I kinda wish they weren't quite as cheap, but had a point cost reduction on Ordnance. Being super cheap opens up awkward strategies where they're better to take without ordnance. I'm not sure the best squad, but running a chubby swarm 4 + Howlrunner + Iden Verso still has 8 spare points...

Any thoughts on how you'd kit out a Phantom?

Literally just need juke, possibly predator on Whisper. Stygium Array takes care of the rest

Stuff like Advanced Sensors or Crew is luxury, might end up overloading the poor ship at that point

It's incredibly economically priced for its base capabilities and I don't see the need to load much more onto it

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Literally just need juke, possibly predator on Whisper. Stygium Array takes care of the rest

Stuff like Advanced Sensors or Crew is luxury, might end up overloading the poor ship at that point

It's incredibly economically priced for its base capabilities and I don't see the need to load much more onto it

Juke Shadow Squadron works out to 50 points even. Almost surely worth going up to 56 for Whisper, though.

Man. Juke Whisper + Predator Soontir is 110 points between them, barely more than half a list. Juke Ryad would fit exactly at 90. Maybe that's a 1e mindset: fill any gap with a Defender.

1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

Yeah, we're pretty solidly looking at this being the TIE swarm's world again. You can fit three Academy pilots, three Obsidians, and still have 59 points left over. That's enough for two more named TIEs! Or just downgrade one more Obsidian to an Academy, and get two Juking Black Squadron TIEs.

But a Tie Block is even more vulnerable to Bullseye mods than a large base... Bring on the HLC FCS Predator Dagger Squadron Bwings...

15 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Literally just need juke, possibly predator on Whisper. Stygium Array takes care of the rest

Stuff like Advanced Sensors or Crew is luxury, might end up overloading the poor ship at that point

It's incredibly economically priced for its base capabilities and I don't see the need to load much more onto it

Also consider that Krennec qualifies the phantom for FCS, and Squad Leader qualifies the phantom for Moff Jerjerod. 3 Shadow squadrons and a test pilot leaves just enough points to put crackshot on the two Shadows without squad leader.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Juke Shadow Squadron works out to 50 points even. Almost surely worth going up to 56 for Whisper, though.

Man. Juke Whisper + Predator Soontir is 110 points between them, barely more than half a list. Juke Ryad would fit exactly at 90. Maybe that's a 1e mindset: fill any gap with a Defender.

Tis

2.0 mindset will be to fill with phantoms

Or Wampa, as points allow

Personally not a fan of inter-ship jank or having to waste a points on Krennic so I can waste an action on a TL

Self-sufficiency is paramount, anything you add atop that (like Tarkin shuttle?) is gravy

34 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Tis

2.0 mindset will be to fill with phantoms

Or Wampa, as points allow

Personally not a fan of inter-ship jank or having to waste a points on Krennic so I can waste an action on a TL

Self-sufficiency is paramount, anything you add atop that (like Tarkin shuttle?) is gravy

That said, Juke Whisper + double Delta fits... They're a pretty solid anvil for a cheaper but lighter hammer in Whisper.

I think I'd gamble on whisper sooner than a Delta

Whisper, apart from having higher I and arcdodging capabilities, is surprisingly resistant to bumping/obstacles. Advanced Sensors, Stygium, and her ability keep cycling tokens

Sure, the Delta has a far superior statline, but I can get Darth freaking VADER on Whisper and still come out cheaper

Okay need to talk about LT. Kestal. 36 points?! Add a Dorsal Turret for 4. Splurge for the Ion at 6. Maybe a gunner or Ion missles gets him around 48. Ruthless and still have room for 3 more ships?! He looks really solid at I5.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I think I'd gamble on whisper sooner than a Delta

Whisper, apart from having higher I and arcdodging capabilities, is surprisingly resistant to bumping/obstacles. Advanced Sensors, Stygium, and her ability keep cycling tokens

Sure, the Delta has a far superior statline, but I can get Darth freaking VADER on Whisper and still come out cheaper

I mean, sure, but you can only have one Whisper. Mostly, Defenders are an old familiar to me.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I kinda wish [TIE bombers] weren't quite as cheap, but had a point cost reduction on Ordnance. Being super cheap opens up awkward strategies where they're better to take without ordnance. I'm not sure the best squad, but running a chubby swarm 4 + Howlrunner + Iden Verso still has 8 spare points...

Fortunately, Iden Versio only helps other TIE/ln's, but I agree that you can come up with goofy TIE bomber lists where they don't bomb or use ordnance. The trick is that most TIE/ln pilots are just 2 points more expensive with stellar abilities, so TIE bombers will probably not fly naked most of the time, though their dial got so much better, I wouldn't be surprised if spam bombers was a viable tactic. It's an interesting thing to think about.

29 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Fortunately, Iden Versio only helps other TIE/ln's, but I agree that you can come up with goofy TIE bomber lists where they don't bomb or use ordnance. The trick is that most TIE/ln pilots are just 2 points more expensive with stellar abilities, so TIE bombers will probably not fly naked most of the time, though their dial got so much better, I wouldn't be surprised if spam bombers was a viable tactic. It's an interesting thing to think about.

It's just... if I were designing the game, I would make them 4, 5, 6 points more expensive, but reduce the total cost of all ordnance by that same amount. Basically, they'd have to pre-buy ordnance. I'm just don't think it's good design to have them extraordinarily cost efficient. It's a bit trickier to work out the prices, though. Maybe just a tag called... lets say "Payload" and all Payload ships use one price for missiles, torpedos, and devices, while there's another price for ships without the keyword. Or maybe there's a Payload Rating for each ship (Payload 0, Payload 1, etc), and there'd be a little matrix like with Engine Upgrade and so forth. I dunno. That's just how I'd have done it.

Soontir Fell is pretty cheap as an an ace. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the cheapest Initiative 6 ship. He is the only I 6 ship in the game that can double reposition boot and barrel roll. Sure he can't boost barrel roll and focus every round now, but that is keeping up with bringing down action stacking across the board.

1 minute ago, Hrathen said:

Soontir Fell is pretty cheap as an an ace. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the cheapest Initiative 6 ship. He is the only I 6 ship in the game that can double reposition boot and barrel roll. Sure he can't boost barrel roll and focus every round now, but that is keeping up with bringing down action stacking across the board.

Sai will pass him the focus in activation, he links a boost or roll, then performs a blue move, evades and links into a boost or roll, then gains a focus from bullseye. 5 action i6 pilot. 4 if he wants to start the chain over again and stay unstressed. Also, the pilot that started the chain got a focus too.

7 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

Soontir Fell is pretty cheap as an an ace. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the cheapest Initiative 6 ship. He is the only I 6 ship in the game that can double reposition boot and barrel roll. Sure he can't boost barrel roll and focus every round now, but that is keeping up with bringing down action stacking across the board.

Wedge and Soontir are both I6 and 52 points.

4 minutes ago, kraedin said:

Wedge and Soontir are both I6 and 52 points.

That is outrageous... That is unfair!