5 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You also have to identify concurrent things individually...

you can’t do that without proxies, if you’ve only got an army list.

I can, if I have a clearly written list, clearly marked models, and 1 of each original upgrade card. I don't need 3 copies of EG any more than I need 3 core rulebooks. It's just more clutter. I think the core set has two so that each player can use one.

Then again... the core set doesn't have enough dice and they do require enough dice...

Just now, TauntaunScout said:

I'm actually not. I don't follow FFG except when make little toy Star War people. Emphasis on toy people, I don't play X-Wing.

Neither do I.

Bit take it as veteran advice then — This happens with every FFG game, and their core design intent is upgrade cards and unit cards - this is why we don’t see fixed books or the like.

FFGs own business model is to get you to buy upgrades and models.

Their OP system enforces that.

Indeed, dig into the legality and you will see that for their streams and such, they require everything to be above board for their own advertisement.

I am supremely confident (and that’s an oddity for me) that it’s not just limited to the list, and the fact things need to be identified separately and proxies are not allowed is a way of stating that, in essence, due to the need of the components (an army list is not a required component, only it can be requested) that if you take an upgrade card for that unit, then you need to have that card for that unit.

I am sure there will be more lax TOs, but as I’ve eho has seen local stores sanctioned and penalized by OP for not maintaining the integrity of the OP system — I don’t encourage people to mess with it.

This is actually covered in the RRG itself, not in the tournament regs. Under the Upgrade Cards section it tells you to equip an upgrade card to each upgrade slot you wish to use. So if someone raises a stink, you’d need to present the appropriate number of cards.

Quote

Each unit card has an upgrade bar that contains a number
of upgrade icons. For each icon on a unit’s upgrade bar, that
unit can equip one upgrade card that has the matching icon.

24 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Right. So it's not proxying a card to say "Here's my army list: Battle Card A with Upgrade card 1A, Battle Card B with Upgrade card 1A, Battle Card C with Upgrade card 1A. Here's my cards if anyone needs to read them: Battle Cards A, B, and C, and 1x Upgrade Card 1A". You're using real cards.

If you can represent multiple units with the same card, then the Unique card rules technically allow you to have multiple models of Luke running around. After all, I only physically included a single Luke card in my army. Furthermore, the example setup shows multiple instances of the Rebel Troopers card and Scout Bikers card, even though none of those units have upgrades.

19 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

This is actually covered in the RRG itself, not in the tournament regs. Under the Upgrade Cards section it tells you to equip an upgrade card to each upgrade slot you wish to use. So if someone raises a stink, you’d need to present the appropriate number of cards.

And there we have it! Huzzah!

Ultimately, it's going to matter how your TO runs things. Locally, it probably won't be an issue. If you're heading out of town for an event, I'd probably borrow cards from teammates when possible to make sure you're fine.

Of course TOs at bigger and official events are likely to be your sticklers.

The only mention I see in the tournament rules about proxy cards is under the provisions for damaged components, where the damaged card is kept in evidence near your army, and a "leader" (personnel defined elsewhere in the document) may provide a proxy for use in the tournament. This proxy card includes, besides the information from the damaged original card, the name of the leader who created it, and the date it was created on.

So, it seems clear to me that the expectation is that original cards are used throughout and have to be present even if damaged.

12 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I am sure there will be more lax TOs, but as I’ve eho has seen local stores sanctioned and penalized by OP for not maintaining the integrity of the OP system — I don’t encourage people to mess with it.

Soon as I pickup spare core sets, I will give away extra upgrade cards to forum members who provide a SASE. I can't imagine the resale value will be worth my time.

If I buy enough kits to have the models, but not the cards then ffg have failed as game designers and showed they are greedy ****s.

One card is enough, just have a printed list ready

3 hours ago, jocke01 said:

If I buy enough kits to have the models, but not the cards then ffg have failed as game designers and showed they are greedy ****s.

One card is enough, just have a printed list ready

Really?

In business sense, they’ve succeeded as game sellers and marketers...

so so I guess it’s all about that “Certain point of view...”, eh?

7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Really?

In business sense, they’ve succeeded as game sellers and marketers...

so so I guess it’s all about that “Certain point of view...”, eh?

I agree with you...

5 hours ago, jocke01 said:

If I buy enough kits to have the models, but not the cards then ffg have failed as game designers and showed they are greedy ****s.

That's silly. That would require every unit they make in the future to include a copy of all older compatible upgrade cards in addition to its new stuff. And it would require you to be able to use the proof of purchase from older units to get copies of compatible upgrade cards from new units mailed to you for free. Neither case is financially viable.

Whether or not proxies should be allowed once you've proven you own at least one copy is a separate opinion, but that claim is just... ?

8 minutes ago, Turan said:

That's silly. That would require every unit they make in the future to include a copy of all older compatible upgrade cards in addition to its new stuff. And it would require you to be able to use the proof of purchase from older units to get copies of compatible upgrade cards from new units mailed to you for free. Neither case is financially viable.

Whether or not proxies should be allowed once you've proven you own at least one copy is a separate opinion, but that claim is just... ?

I never claimed every product need Evert card, but it's silly to have to buy model kits just for the cards when you don't got any use for the models

1 minute ago, jocke01 said:

I never claimed every product need Evert card

Logically, you did - that's the only way one could ensure that if you buy enough kits to have the models, you're guaranteed to have enough cards if you chose to use the same upgrade on all of them.

As for the rest of it...that's one reason I haven't played Armada in tournaments and I won't play this in tournaments. People who do so either choose to spend extra money just to get the cards they need, or they construct their lists around the physical upgrades they own.

1 minute ago, Turan said:

Logically, you did - that's the only way one could ensure that if you buy enough kits to have the models, you're guaranteed to have enough cards if you chose to use the same upgrade on all of them.

As for the rest of it...that's one reason I haven't played Armada in tournaments and I won't play this in tournaments. People who do so either choose to spend extra money just to get the cards they need, or they construct their lists around the physical upgrades they own.

Okey you are now telling me my position and argument. Thank you and have a nice day

I won't bother replying anymore if you can't tell the difference between me stating my opinion and telling you your opinion.

I think we can all agree that the safe option is to bring the cards... whether FFG are ***** or not really doesn't matter when it's your upgrades being ruled invalid because you didn't take the safe option...

I've mentioned earlier how easy it is to make realistic proxies if getting originals is totally impossible... so pick one:

a) Risk it...

b) Get the cards

c) make some cards and risk it less...

Either option comes with the expectation that this pointless circular thread dies in the butt.

On 7/26/2018 at 1:14 PM, Gengis Jon said:

I’m curious how folks are dealing with shortages in cards like Environmental Gear. I only “own” a few, but have more units I’d like to use them with.

I know some people who are just making their own color copies. I’m not sure what I think about that or how that would be received in competitive play.

Has FFG addressed this in any official way or is there some kind in consensus building within “the community?”

I have one spare EG card that is free for the OP if he speaks up within 24 hours. Terms and conditions may apply. Void where prohibited.

1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

I have one spare EG card that is free for the OP if he speaks up within 24 hours. Terms and conditions may apply. Void where prohibited.

Haha, awesome! I’ll take it!