Fully Operational , one of the most offensive books to my sensibilities in some places (mainly the starship crafting rules that really, really suck), gives us the Ion Torpedo. It's a powerful but not unbalanced weapon system, and like all launchers, it has Limited Ammo to keep it from being spammed all over, or so it seems...

The cost to fully reload an Ion Torpedo Launcher with Limited Ammo 4 is just 400 credits! That's only 100 credits per torpedo, making it cheaper than most personal scale missiles and close to the price of many grenades. Comparatively, Concussion Missiles are 500 credits per missile and Proton Torpedoes are 750 credits per torpedo. While even these costs seem low, they really highlight how absurdly inexpensive Ion Torpedoes are. Additionally, Ion Torpedoes are not Restricted like Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles (the missiles are Restricted even though the launcher is not), so these things are a legal to own heavy hitter that's cheap to replenish. I'm not so sure that's a good thing as it makes (literal) rocket tag even more attractive of an option.

To clarify, is the "Launcher" really different for the Proton Torpedo and the Ion Torpedo?

My understanding of the Torpedo Launcher is that it's a standard launch assembly that lets you load a variety of Torpedoes into it, based on an expected mission profile.

But based on you description, I think the obvious answer is YES, Ion Torpedoes seem awfully cheap.

I'm ok with ion weapons being cheaper and more available than their lethal counterparts, but yeah, feels like it should have been more like 400 per torpedo...

Typo? May be a question for the devs. Stranger things have happened.

20 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

To clarify, is the "Launcher" really different for the Proton Torpedo and the Ion Torpedo?

My understanding of the Torpedo Launcher is that it's a standard launch assembly that lets you load a variety of Torpedoes into it, based on an expected mission profile.

But based on you description, I think the obvious answer is YES, Ion Torpedoes seem awfully cheap.

In this system, it's a distinct weapon system without interchangeable munitions. The launcher for Ion Torpedoes even costs less than that of the Proton Torpedoes in addition to not being Restricted.

So if you're a PC and want to swap from Protorps to Ion Torps, you would need to disassemble the weapon maintenance panel, remove a launcher & install a different launcher? Yikes. Not very practical for AoR.

That of course requires an Engineering roll, which could result in the destruction of the weapon system. And if you have a sadistic GM (like me) who flips a destiny point converting a purple to a Red, there's a 1 in 12 chance that the weapon blows up on the PC's face! (Where is my Devil smiley emoticon)?

I don't have Fully Operational so I don't know what these Ion Torpedoes actually do in combat so my opinion and input is going to be of very limited value as to whether or not they're really under-priced. But the reload price does seem really low.

You wouldn't need to make a mechanics check to add/remove launchers since they are Attachments. Note that there is some weirdness in the way Fully Operational words the new weapons that might make it impossible to swap these weapons on a hard point rather than just adding them.

23 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

You wouldn't need to make a mechanics check to add/remove launchers since they are Attachments. Note that there is some weirdness in the way Fully Operational words the new weapons that might make it impossible to swap these weapons on a hard point rather than just adding them.

Huh?

I thought that the point of Hard Points was to limit how many weapon systems a ship could mount.

In point of fact, by definition a Hard Point is a setting used to mount weapon systems! Technically I could go grab an M-2 Browning and attach it to my Toyota Prius, but before I did, I'd need to add a Hard Point upon which to deploy the 120 lbs of weapon system. (That's unloaded weight, btw).

I am reminded of how the B-24 crews were adding 4 M-2 Brownings to their bombers (two on each side just aft of the cockpit and employed by the Pilot like a fighter craft) but the technicians needed to add four hard points FIRST.

So I reply, Huh? What are you meaning? Are these rules suggesting that I could just take a four Ion Torpedo launchers and just duct tape them to the middle of my X-Wing's S-Foils?

13 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

Huh?

I thought that the point of Hard Points was to limit how many weapon systems a ship could mount.

In point of fact, by definition a Hard Point is a setting used to mount weapon systems! Technically I could go grab an M-2 Browning and attach it to my Toyota Prius, but before I did, I'd need to add a Hard Point upon which to deploy the 120 lbs of weapon system. (That's unloaded weight, btw).

I am reminded of how the B-24 crews were adding 4 M-2 Brownings to their bombers (two on each side just aft of the cockpit and employed by the Pilot like a fighter craft) but the technicians needed to add four hard points FIRST.

So I reply, Huh? What are you meaning? Are these rules suggesting that I could just take a four Ion Torpedo launchers and just duct tape them to the middle of my X-Wing's S-Foils?

What @HappyDaze is referring to is the option of replacing unwanted weapon systems with better ones without taking up any of the vehicle's hard points. However, Fully Operational contains the following, quite peculiar statement:

"These items are new weapons that can be mounted onto starships or vehicles. Note that they do not replace existing weapons, but are extra weapons added to offer more firepower or combat flexibility." 

The way this is worded could mean that vehicle weapons found in Fully Operational (such as the Ion Torpedo Launcher) can't replace existing weapon systems, but must always be added to a vehicle, taking up hard points.

2 minutes ago, EpicTed said:

What @HappyDaze is referring to is the option of replacing unwanted weapon systems with better ones without taking up any of the vehicle's hard points. However, Fully Operational contains the following, quite peculiar statement:

"These items are new weapons that can be mounted onto starships or vehicles. Note that they do not replace existing weapons, but are extra weapons added to offer more firepower or combat flexibility." 

The way this is worded could mean that vehicle weapons found in Fully Operational (such as the Ion Torpedo Launcher) can't replace existing weapon systems, but must always be added to a vehicle, taking up hard points.

I’m not sure that’s what it means. It may simply mean that mechanically, they’re not weapons normally found stock on a ship or vehicle, but, rather, are strictly aftermarket parts. This is probably something to question the developers about.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I’m not sure that’s what it means. It may simply mean that mechanically, they’re not weapons normally found stock on a ship or vehicle, but, rather, are strictly aftermarket parts. This is probably something to question the developers about.

Agreed (thus the "could mean"), and from what I've heard, that's already been done a few times. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

5 minutes ago, EpicTed said:

Agreed (thus the "could mean"), and from what I've heard, that's already been done a few times. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Well, unless the question was asked as an EotE question, the devs May never answer.

For further comparison, Dangerous Covenants gives us an Unguided Rocket (launched from a Concussion Missile Launcher) that costs 300 credits. I think it's fair to assume that an Ion Torpedo--a guided weapon--should probably cost more than that.

I think I'll just mentally edit the price to be 2,400 credits for a full reload of four torpedoes (600 credits per torpedo).

On 7/28/2018 at 7:20 PM, Mark Caliber said:

Huh?

I thought that the point of Hard Points was to limit how many weapon systems a ship could mount.

In point of fact, by definition a Hard Point is a setting used to mount weapon systems! Technically I could go grab an M-2 Browning and attach it to my Toyota Prius, but before I did, I'd need to add a Hard Point upon which to deploy the 120 lbs of weapon system. (That's unloaded weight, btw).

I am reminded of how the B-24 crews were adding 4 M-2 Brownings to their bombers (two on each side just aft of the cockpit and employed by the Pilot like a fighter craft) but the technicians needed to add four hard points FIRST.

So I reply, Huh? What are you meaning? Are these rules suggesting that I could just take a four Ion Torpedo launchers and just duct tape them to the middle of my X-Wing's S-Foils?

Somebody else already explained it, but you could avoid using a hard point by having a single (twin, triple, or more linked weapons cannot use this option and thus always require you to spend hard points) ion torpedo launcher replace the twin proton torpedo launcher or quad medium laser cannons (except that the Ion Torpedo Launcher can only be mounted on vessels of Silhouette 4+).

7 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Somebody else already explained it, but you could avoid using a hard point by having a single (twin, triple, or more linked weapons cannot use this option and thus always require you to spend hard points) ion torpedo launcher replace the twin proton torpedo launcher or quad medium laser cannons (except that the Ion Torpedo Launcher can only be mounted on vessels of Silhouette 4+).

Ion Torpedoes can only be fired from Sil 4+ vehicles?

I wasn't aware that Y-Wings were Sil 4 in size. I thought that they were a Sil 3 fighter?

1 hour ago, Mark Caliber said:

Ion Torpedoes can only be fired from Sil 4+ vehicles?

I wasn't aware that Y-Wings were Sil 4 in size. I thought that they were a Sil 3 fighter?

I think things are getting muddy here...

The Ion Torpedo Launcher in FO is a distinct weapon system lashed to a specific type of projectile, with specific mounting requirements to install it on a craft.

That's where Happy is going, by RAW the Ion Torpedo Launcher in FO is oddly specific and reloading it seems oddly affordable in market that already sees missiles and torpedoes as a bit too cheap compared to what they do.

If you want to get super technical, by RAW only the TIE Defender can load whatever it likes into it's launchers...

2 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

Ion Torpedoes can only be fired from Sil 4+ vehicles?

I wasn't aware that Y-Wings were Sil 4 in size. I thought that they were a Sil 3 fighter?

You can only add them to Sil 4+ vehicles. If the vehicle already has them as standard, then this restriction is ignored (this is how the Citadel-class mounts a Medium Tractor Beam on Sil 4 and how the CR90 mounts Medium Turbolasers on Sil 5). Presumably, FFG believes that the Rogue One Y-wings were a variant that has them as part of its standard load.

But this item is from Fully Operational, which IMO is one of the weakest products produced to date, so I'm probably being foolish in hoping that these concerns will be addressed.

Is there even anywhere a reference that a launcher comes with ammunition?
Besides, 600 credits per torpedo sounds good. they seem to be a little bit more expensive than concussion missiles. which FFG decided to go with 500 credits a pop. Not that being a little cheaper than concussions would be game breaking.