https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/7/25/scorpion-at-the-gates/

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This will prove of only minor importance on such characters as the Bayushi Manipulator (Core Set, 96) and might even delay the Bayushi Liar's (Core Set, 95) expected departure, but it could lend the clan a massive boost when that extra fate lands on one of its most powerful characters—Bayushi Shoju (Core Set, 107), Bayushi Kachiko (Into the Forbidden City, 56), or Soshi Shiori (The Fires Within, 49).

I didn't know you could play Bayushi Kachiko (Into the Forbidden City, 56) from a province.

I don't think they added the hatamoto from Pax Unplugged to the website. Kind of disappointing.

Clan 1^st 2^nd 3^rd

Crab Seeker of Void Keeper of Fire Seeker of Earth

Crane Keeper of Fire Keeper of Air Seeker of Water

Dragon Keeper of Water Keeper of Void Keeper of Fire

Lion Seeker of Void Seeker of Fire Seeker of Water

Phoenix Seeker of Void Keeper of Void Keeper of Fire

Scorption Keeper of Fire Keeper of Air Seeker of Air

Unicorn Seeker of Fire Seeker of Water Seeker of Air

So this makes it even clearer than the previous article that Dragon deliberately sabotaged Phoenix.

This is why clan role locks are bad. This is not healthy player interaction.

Is Toshi Ranbo coming out this Cycle or a future one?

2 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

So this makes it even clearer than the previous article that Dragon deliberately sabotaged Phoenix.

Why is that? Could you explain?

2 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

Why is that? Could you explain?

Because there is no way Dragon wants Keeper of Water so badly for its own merits (???) and not because it screws Phoenix out of SoV. If Crab had KoW in its top 3 I might buy those as legitimate votes but given what we see here it's obvious that Dragon are primarily responsible for Phoenix being pushed to the back of the line.

1 minute ago, HamHamJ2 said:

Because there is no way Dragon wants Keeper of Water so badly for its own merits (???) and not because it screws Phoenix out of SoV. If Crab had KoW in its top 3 I might buy those as legitimate votes but given what we see here it's obvious that Dragon are primarily responsible for Phoenix being pushed to the back of the line.

Well, now there is some karma at least. Dragon is stuck with a mostly useless secondary Role for more than just two tournaments.

2 minutes ago, Saibot said:

Well, now there is some karma at least. Dragon is stuck with a mostly useless secondary Role for more than just two tournaments.

They pretty much do not care. Maybe once Seeker of Fire rotates out, but if they have a solid new role lined up at that point it won't matter.

Just now, HamHamJ2 said:

They pretty much do not care. Maybe once Seeker of Fire rotates out, but if they have a solid new role lined up at that point it won't matter.

That is still an "if". I agree however that it is likely that Dragon will get a decently early pick at Winter Court.

35 minutes ago, Duciris said:

I didn't know you could play Bayushi Kachiko (Into the Forbidden City, 56) from a province.

Toshi Ranbo technically could hold Backalley Hideaway.

Kachiko leaves play, is placed under Backalley Hideaway, then played again. She would indeed gain a fate.

28 minutes ago, Saibot said:

Well, now there is some karma at least. Dragon is stuck with a mostly useless secondary Role for more than just two tournaments.

Dragon is basically just going to be on an 8 month cooldown on Seeker of Fire starting January 2019. They'll almost definitely get it back after Elemental Series 1 if they want it. Keeper of Water doesn't really hurt them either because they wanted a Keeper role anyway and all of the Keeper roles are almost the same except for FoF. However, Restoration of Balance is so good right now that most Dragon players would run it over FoF even if Dragon had Keeper of Fire.

So, does that Toshi Ranbo card become a Scorpion clan card if they win? Will it gain an element?

Toshi ranbo seems like a good province. It would suck if scorpion gets yet another good card, cause even if they dont use it they lock other clans that might need it to help them become.mlre competitive out. Perphaps give it an element and keep it neutral, but have the winning clan able to ignore its element when choosing provinces?

First, let's address the elephant in the room.......

That province has the Imperial trait.

Isihikawa is gonna be broken. Lol

It's also kind of meh that a province that Lion has a lot of tools for and Crane has some tools for is going to Scorpion who probably won't play it.

12 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

It's also kind of meh that a province that Lion has a lot of tools for and Crane has some tools for is going to Scorpion who probably won't play it.

My point exactly

2 hours ago, HamHamJ2 said:

This is not healthy player interaction.

I can certainly understand that point if you view l5r as simply a card game but it is more of an RPG (*emphasis*) card game where people get extremely involved in the story and the plight of their clan. To that end I think if my clan brothers and sisters did indeed do it to screw the Phoenix it can create some interesting and memorable player interactions and experiences going forward as well as provide some interesting story friction. Far from being an unhealthy player interaction it can serve as a world building exercise. Animosity and friendship between the fan bases (so long as we all remember its just a game and conduct ourselves as gentlemen) like the Dragon-Scorpion Alliance and the Mantis/Phoenix rivalry are what made the old game special and are why old players such as myself are so invested in it and have kept returning to it for over 2 decades.

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

First, let's address the elephant in the room.......

That holding has the Imperial trait.

Isihikawa is gonna be broken. Lol

Except it's a province, not a holding. So as soon as your opponent breaks it - and they have no reason *not* to make that their first target, since it's face-up - it won't help Ishikawa for long.

Keeper of Water is one of the least wanted Keeper roles for dragon. This was a hit job.

There was a teacher in Dragon who warned of their danger and vowed to take action and prevent them from gaining Seeker of Void. Most of us followed his teachings. But there is enough now to sabotage them and noe talk of trying to get Keeper of Void to 1st at gen con.

I think this is a fun player interaction and exactly the kind of thing encouraged by the system.

If you Phoenix have a problem then come and get us. The most enlightened will be revealed

For the record, not all dragons were on board with the plan to sabotage the phoenix, I was against it from the beginning, because I was afraid something like this might happen, and now it's happening and if we don't all vote for KoV at gen con, our monk deck is kinda screwed.

Also, for the record, not all keeper roles are equal out of dragon, water is the second worst for us, being only a bit better than earth. Fire is the best by a wide margin, void being second best and only slightly better than air, water is a distant fourth. Not gonna bother with explaining why unless a fellow dragon player asks. Although, hint, it has to do with monks.

Man, Toshi Ranbo is a juicy ability, but it's also a visibly safe province at the start of the game. Your opponent's going to break that so hard, so you'd better get ready to defend if you're running it. People are saying it's bad in Scorpion, but considering their ability to defend so well, it might not be bad. Crane would probably appreciate it, since they have the ability to move holdings around now.

As for Dragon trying to sabotage Phoenix, it's kinda lame, and there's not much we can do to counter it since performing well is the opposite of counteracting their choice (if I'm understanding the process correctly), so I guess it just means Phoenix will have to perform over and above at the Winter Court, since that's where the decision actually matters. Or at least, that's how it would have worked if the system weren't changing. In any event, I've been super unenthused about Water all this time, so if we get a completely uninteresting role again, it's just more of the same. Ironically, Water is picking up as a strong tempo element now, and is getting more interesting as we're ready to transition to something else.

But I like the Phoenix choices, in any event. I'd like to see all the ishiken I can, so a void role is fitting.

1 hour ago, Mirumoto Ryan said:

I can certainly understand that point if you view l5r as simply a card game but it is more of an RPG (*emphasis*) card game where people get extremely involved in the story and the plight of their clan. To that end I think if my clan brothers and sisters did indeed do it to screw the Phoenix it can create some interesting and memorable player interactions and experiences going forward as well as provide some interesting story friction. Far from being an unhealthy player interaction it can serve as a world building exercise. Animosity and friendship between the fan bases (so long as we all remember its just a game and conduct ourselves as gentlemen) like the Dragon-Scorpion Alliance and the Mantis/Phoenix rivalry are what made the old game special and are why old players such as myself are so invested in it and have kept returning to it for over 2 decades.

The problem is that we aren't talking about a story choice or some prestige thing. We are talking about directly making playing the game worse and less fun for one clan because of another clan. That is not the basis for a friendly rivalry to my mind.

This whole situation is making me negative on playing in more tournaments which is clearly not a good thing.

But Phoenix weren't going to get Keeper of Water for this choice anyway, because they already have it? And this doesn't affect what choice they make at Winter Court either?

Am I misunderstanding something?

2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

First, let's address the elephant in the room.......

That holding has the Imperial trait.

Isihikawa is gonna be broken. Lol

I can revive my Scorpion Imperial deck!