2 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

I did minus the VSD, but if you look at it mathematically the imperial fleet was 100x larger, so yes they used the CR90 but in less numbers percentage wise than the Rebels. Like think of it this way every 1000th imperial ship was a CR90, every 20th rebel ship was one..

And the rebels used everything from the clone wars, the imps didn't. they never touched separatist gear, and the republic navy was near mothballed.. Only the venator, kittens, and the VSD really surviving in their navy. Even Arc-130s where reserved for only the elite, and once they were destroyed, were never replaced.

what I'm trying to say is the sheer cross over from clone wars will create balance problems which will need to be addressed, and it'll take a few FAQs..

So basically a clown wars expansion could be great, if they get the cross over fair and equal for both sides, because as said, the fact the rebels will have used more of the clown wars ships *they* would bring out in a core set + expansions, they need to be aware of not making one side in Civil war too strong...

According to wookiepedia the empire did use "several" lucrehulks as flight school, albeit not for direct combat, I'd assume.

5 minutes ago, Captain_Nemo said:

According to wookiepedia the empire did use "several" lucrehulks as flight school, albeit not for direct combat, I'd assume.

Correct only as flight schools, imps didn't use them for anything else other than non-combat use. T he only civil war lucrehulk I know of is a rebel one which tried attacking the Death Star... Long story short it was one shotted...

1 hour ago, EbonHawk said:

Correct only as flight schools, imps didn't use them for anything else other than non-combat use. T he only civil war lucrehulk I know of is a rebel one which tried attacking the Death Star... Long story short it was one shotted...

There’s also a canon Lucrehulk in the Aphra series. It was used for Alliance pilot training under the command of General Syndulla.

Sorry guys but I'm not convinced tec has not changed that much. Broken record or not.

A lot of the ships an equipment coming out of the even look like precursors.

We know from rouge one there was a lot research an designed on things such as the deathstar and entire planet dedicated to holding designs. I'm sure there are other examples maybe even some that support both sides of the discussion

10 minutes ago, Radaeon said:

Sorry guys but I'm not convinced tec has not changed that much. Broken record or not.

A lot of the ships an equipment coming out of the even look like precursors.

We know from rouge one there was a lot research an designed on things such as the deathstar and entire planet dedicated to holding designs. I'm sure there are other examples maybe even some that support both sides of the discussion

Blueprints for superweapons such as the Death Star has existed for thousands of years. Yoda even mentions in the crystal crisis arc that weapons of immeasurable power existed in the days of the Jedi and Sith wars. Do some research on the Old Republic. Many of their ships and weapons were miles superior to anything we’ve seen in Star Wars.

8 hours ago, Cusm said:

Clone Wars is resurrected, just announced this past week.

8 hours ago, LordCola said:

Because Clone Wars season 7.

By that reasoning shouldnt we have TFA and TLJ stuff too? ?

We got some Clone Wars ships on the channel, might have to try do a batrep!

5 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

By that reasoning shouldnt we have TFA and TLJ stuff too? ?

We got some Clone Wars ships on the channel, might have to try do a batrep!

Sure...

... in a few years time when it’s tgeir 10th anniversary

1 hour ago, Radaeon said:

Sorry guys but I'm not convinced tec has not changed that much. Broken record or not.

A lot of the ships an equipment coming out of the even look like precursors.

We know from rouge one there was a lot research an designed on things such as the deathstar and entire planet dedicated to holding designs. I'm sure there are other examples maybe even some that support both sides of the discussion

You don't need to be convinced but lore wise that's how it is...

Gheez if you go back to the first space faring race in star wars (The Kwa) they basically had stargates ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinity_Gate ) and due to war the technology was lost, this same process has continued throughout history (like a repeated version of Earths own Dark Ages).

As mentioned the majority of research undertaken is building upon current designs, and as Battlefleet has said blueprints to things like the Death Star have existed for a while, waiting for tech to catch up.

Think of it this way..

We have Radio's, how do you improve a Radio wave.. You can't, because a Radio wave is a radio wave. You can only make fancier Radio's.

Just like a turbolaser, the energy beam produced is already at it's pinnacle, you can't improve it, you can just make fancier turrets. (I know the analogy is rough)

Even look at Starfighters..

The Aurek-class tactical strikefighter for instance, from the Old Republic, had a top flight speed of

1400k/ph.

The A-Wing a Starfighter made over 3000 years later had a top flight speed of 1300k/ph. So it's slower despite being 3000 years newer.

This is because they already have 99% of the technology they will ever have, and instead of new discoveries, they simply implement the current tech in multiple different ways to achieve different outcomes.... So that instead of the question being, do you want new tech it's..

Would you like the expensive X-Wing with a hyperdrive and shields, or a cheap TIE Fighter without..

Much like a car for us, which can't improve unless they make em fly, do you want a golf gti, or a lambo? Both do the same job but differently.

1 minute ago, EbonHawk said:

You don't need to be convinced but lore wise that's how it is...

Gheez if you go back to the first space faring race in star wars (The Kwa) they basically had stargates ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Infinity_Gate ) and due to war the technology was lost, this same process has continued throughout history (like a repeated version of Earths own Dark Ages).

As mentioned the majority of research undertaken is building upon current designs, and as Battlefleet has said blueprints to things like the Death Star have existed for a while, waiting for tech to catch up.

Think of it this was..

We have Radio's, how do you improve a Radio wave.. You can't, because a Radio wave is a radio wave. You can only make fancier Radio's.

Just like a turbolaser, the energy beam produced is already at it's pinnacle, you can improve it, you can just make fancier turrets. (I know the analogy is rough)

Even look at Starfighters..

The Aurek-class tactical strikefighter for instance, from the Old Republic, had a top flight speed of

1400k/ph.

The A-Wing a Starfighter made over 3000 years later had a top flight speed of 1300k/ph. So it's slower despite being 3000 years newer.

This is because they already have 99% of the technology they will ever have, and instead of new discoveries, they simply implement the current tech in multiple different ways to achieve different outcomes.... So that instead of the question being, do you want new tech it's..

Would you like the expensive X-Wing with a hyperdrive and shields, or a cheap TIE Fighter without..

Much like a car for us, which can't improve unless they make em fly, do you want a golf gti, or a lambo? Both do the same job but differently.

Just wanted to quote this because everything said here is ?

I would like to see Trench and Obi-wan as leaders, for ace squadrons I could see Hawk as a clone ace. I dont know who all could be used for the CIS, ace wise... might just be a bunch of cheap swarm squadrons.

9 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

I did minus the VSD, but if you look at it mathematically the imperial fleet was 100x larger, so yes they used the CR90 but in less numbers percentage wise than the Rebels. Like think of it this way every 1000th imperial ship was a CR90, every 20th rebel ship was one..

And the rebels used everything from the clone wars, the imps didn't. they never touched separatist gear, and the republic navy was near mothballed.. Only the venator, kittens, and the VSD really surviving in their navy. Even Arc-130s where reserved for only the elite, and once they were destroyed, were never replaced.

what I'm trying to say is the sheer cross over from clone wars will create balance problems which will need to be addressed, and it'll take a few FAQs..

So basically a clown wars expansion could be great, if they get the cross over fair and equal for both sides, because as said, the fact the rebels will have used more of the clown wars ships *they* would bring out in a core set + expansions, they need to be aware of not making one side in Civil war too strong...

Hmm the Empire used Gozantis, which were a Separatist ship. It's true they didn't use other Seppy vessels but I don't think the people of the galaxy would be keen on seeing formerly enemy vessels being used. It would only harden resolve to oppose the Empire, which was riding on a wave of popular support for having ended the Clone Wars victoriously. The other element is that Separatists were largely alien and the xenophobic Empire used the Clone Wars as a pretext for slavery, racism, and jingoism. They needed or wanted the people (IE the wealthy human systems) to identify with them and using enemy vessels would really undermine this symbolism.

They did take over nearly every Separatist corporation however, and repurpose them for the Imperial war machine.

6 hours ago, Ling27 said:

I would like to see Trench and Obi-wan as leaders, for ace squadrons I could see Hawk as a clone ace. I dont know who all could be used for the CIS, ace wise... might just be a bunch of cheap swarm squadrons.

Someone mentioned Grievous ( Soulless One ) Ventress (Fanblade starfighter) and Cad Bane ( Xanadu Blood. ) In addition, we could have Savage Oppress/Dooku (in Dooku’s Punworcca-116) Jango/Boba Fett ( Slave I,) Nute Gunray ( Lapiz Cutter ,) Pre Vizla (Gauntlet fighter,) Picador/Confessor Group (Nantex Starfighter,) 88th Flight (Vulture Droid,) Trident Group (Droid Trifighter,) Durge (Novasword fighter,) and Darth Maul/Sidious ( Scimitar.) Personally I’d really like to see Tofen Vane or N’wan Raines, but they’re unlikely to say the least.

15 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Like think of it this way every 1000th imperial ship was a CR90, every 20th rebel ship was one..

And the rebels used everything from the clone wars, the imps didn't. they never touched separatist gear,

I don't mean to be rude, but can you give a source for anything you are saying?

I can't find numbers on the fleet compositions of the Rebels or the Empire. So I don't know exactly how many CR90s the Rebels had. And just guessing is not very useful.

And I can also not find any mention that the rebels used any CIS gear (except the Phantom 2). On non of the CIS capital ships does wookipedia list the Rebels as Affiliations in canon.

48 minutes ago, LordCola said:

I don't mean to be rude, but can you give a source for anything you are saying?

I can't find numbers on the fleet compositions of the Rebels or the Empire. So I don't know exactly how many CR90s the Rebels had. And just guessing is not very useful.

And I can also not find any mention that the rebels used any CIS gear (except the Phantom 2). On non of the CIS capital ships does wookipedia list the Rebels as Affiliations in canon.

I mean, when it comes down to it, what matters is fan perception. Regardless of actual numbers or percentages, appearances in 4 movies and countless other areas of lore (Rebels) trumps a mention about some in a Belderone deepdock (Empire.) People see CR90, they think Rebellion. As for Rebel Sep gear, it’s mostly EU. Lucrehulks, Trifighters, and Vultures are canon, and should be listed as such. [Tarkin] FFG art shows Rebel Providences and Recusants, though. [X-wing,I’ll find the card if you want]

7 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Lucrehulks  , Trifighters, and Vultures are canon, and should be listed as such.

You are right. Rebels Lucrehulk is canon.

8 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

[Tarkin] FFG art shows Rebel Providences  and Recusants  , though. [X-wing,I’ll find the card if you want]

According to Wookipedia Rebel Providence and Recusant are not canon though.

11 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I mean, when it comes down to it, what matters is fan perception. Regardless of actual numbers or percentages, appearances in 4 movies and countless other areas of lore (Rebels) trumps a mention about some in a Belderone deepdock (Empire.) 

Well I think we will have to disagree on that one. The whole idea is that pretty much all the Rebel CR90 are stolen from the Empire. Therefore the Empire has a lot more of them than the Rebels.

10 minutes ago, LordCola said:

You are right. Rebels Lucrehulk is canon.

According to Wookipedia Rebel Providence and Recusant are not canon though.

Well I think we will have to disagree on that one. The whole idea is that pretty much all the Rebel CR90 are stolen from the Empire. Therefore the Empire has a lot more of them than the Rebels.

My point isn’t whether or not the Empire actually has more CR90s (or Nebulons, or Dreadnoughts, etc.) They probably do. My point is about actual merchandising potential based on fan perception, which I feel should be compatible with lore, but placed a step above it. I agree with your initial claim: Venators, VSDs, Acclamators, and Arqs are clear choices for Imperial ships. Not just because the Empire had access to vastly more of them, but because they look Imperial and/or get screentime as Imperial craft. For the same reasons, we probably both agree the CR90 shouldn’t be an Imperial ship in-game, even if it would be canonically correct.

(As an aside, CR90s were in wide use by a number of parties, like planetary defense forces, smugglers, diplomats and pirates. This implies to me they could be bought directly from the shipyards, or otherwise acquired. I don’t doubt some served in the Imperial navy, but the percentage is suspect.)

1 hour ago, LordCola said:

I don't mean to be rude, but can you give a source for anything you are saying?

I can't find numbers on the fleet compositions of the Rebels or the Empire. So I don't know exactly how many CR90s the Rebels had. And just guessing is not very useful.

And I can also not find any mention that the rebels used any CIS gear (except the Phantom 2). On non of the CIS capital ships does wookipedia list the Rebels as Affiliations in canon.

Obviously the CR90 example was just an example... You'd have to ask Tarkin himself for those numbers..

And really? There is a number of named ships and just plain links to the rebels or rebel cells on a number of CIS ships.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rebel_One

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucrehulk-class_battleship

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Munificent-class_star_frigate/Legends

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_tri-fighter

You can find a list of every ship used by the rebels here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_starship_classes

And every Starfighter here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_starfighter_classes

Admittedly some are part of 'legends' now, however that's due to Disney wishing to re-write the same story there way.. (for an example of this look to Malachor in Star Wars Rebels, a 'legends' battle made canon with some minor differences).. Which is why you have to be careful with canon now because afterall there are ships in the game that aren't canon such as the:

MC30, and the Glad etc... Both legends ships

3 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

My point isn’t whether or not the Empire actually has more CR90s (or Nebulons, or Dreadnoughts, etc.) They probably do. My point is about actual merchandising potential based on fan perception, which I feel should be compatible with lore, but placed a step above it. I agree with your initial claim: Venators, VSDs, Acclamators, and Arqs are clear choices for Imperial ships. Not just because the Empire had access to vastly more of them, but because they look Imperial and/or get screentime as Imperial craft. For the same reasons, we probably both agree the CR90 shouldn’t be an Imperial ship in-game, even if it would be canonically correct.

Yes, I think we agree

2 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

Obviously the CR90 example was just an example... You'd have to ask Tarkin himself for those numbers..

And really? There is a number of named ships and just plain links to the rebels or rebel cells on a number of CIS ships.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rebel_One

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucrehulk-class_battleship

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Munificent-class_star_frigate/Legends

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_tri-fighter

You can find a list of every ship used by the rebels here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_starship_classes

Admittedly some are part of 'legends' now, however that's due to Disney wishing to re-write the same story there way.. (for an example of this look to Malachor in Star Wars Rebels, a 'legends' battle made canon with some minor differences).. Which is why you have to be careful with canon now because afterall there are ships in the game that aren't canon such as the:

MC30, and the Gladiator.. Both legends ships

From what I understand, and I might be totally wrong on this, FFG was removing Legends stuff from X-wing with the 2.0 version. So my assumption is that they now want to stronger focus on canon content. That's why I am asking for canon sources. Now if FFG is not focusing on canon stuff and everything is still fair game, then you are absolutely right about the CIS ships. I am just not sure how FFG is operating. But if they do focus on canon stuff then the only CIS capital ship with Rebel affiliation is the Lucrehulk. No Providence, no Recusant and no Munificent.

36 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

[Tarkin  ] FFG art shows Rebel Providences and Recusants, though. [X-wing,I’ll find the card if you want]

I would like to see this jabba, you had me at star wars art

7 minutes ago, LordCola said:

Yes, I think we agree

From what I understand, and I might be totally wrong on this, FFG was removing Legends stuff from X-wing with the 2.0 version. So my assumption is that they now want to stronger focus on canon content. That's why I am asking for canon sources. Now if FFG is not focusing on canon stuff and everything is still fair game, then you are absolutely right about the CIS ships. I am just not sure how FFG is operating. But if they do focus on canon stuff then the only CIS capital ship with Rebel affiliation is the Lucrehulk. No Providence, no Recusant and no Munificent.

I hear your point about X-Wing but if they did that to Armada it would really die!

There isn't exactly a bounty of different ships to choose on each side to begin with, if they ever removed legends ships half the game would disappear...

I mean FFG themselves even created a non canon ship just because of the lack of diversity already present...

As that ship in question (the Raider) was made canon later in Battlefront 2 that says the opposite to me about Armada, that Disney is willing to bend the arm a little for them.. And possibly use ships from Armada again in canon.

As you said yourself at the end, if they focus on canon it's basically 1 ship... That's the reason they won't do that..

2 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

I hear your point about X-Wing but if they did that to Armada it would really die!

There isn't exactly a bounty of different ships to choose on each side to begin with, if they ever removed legends ships half the game would disappear...

I mean FFG themselves even created a non canon ship just because of the lack of diversity already present...

As that ship in question (the Raider) was made canon later in Battlefront 2 that says the opposite to me about Armada, that Disney is willing to bend the arm a little for them.. And possibly use ships from Armada again in canon.

As you said yourself at the end, if they focus on canon it's basically 1 ship... That's the reason they won't do that..

Oh, no I don't think they will remove legends ships from the game. I just think that with new ships they might focus on canon stuff first. Also the Raider was created for X-Wing. I don't think Disney would allow the creation of a ship for Armada since it is so much smaller.

3 minutes ago, LordCola said:

Oh, no I don't think they will remove legends ships from the game. I just think that with new ships they might focus on canon stuff first. Also the Raider was created for X-Wing. I don't think Disney would allow the creation of a ship for Armada since it is so much smaller.

No I hear you, just the Canon list is small... Very small.. And would be like FFG working with 1 arm behind their back.. (Which wouldn't help as 1 is already there ahaha)

The Raider was a joint creation due to both games needing a ship of its type, and the imperials having nothing in canon that could fulfil the role, and look anywhere near imperial. And while Disney may not allow them to make another ship granted, it doesn't mean it won't let them resurrect ships from legends of their[Disney] choice..

1 hour ago, LordCola said:

Well I think we will have to disagree on that one. The whole idea is that pretty much all the Rebel CR90 are stolen from the Empire. Therefore the Empire has a lot more of them than the Rebels.

Yes the Empire has a lot more CR-90s than the Rebellion. However the main role of the CR-90 within the Empire were not as military vessels but as a diplomatic one for the Imperial Senate The Rebels re-purposed them for combat duty.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CR90_corvette

"While the CR90 would see initial use within the late Galactic Republic and Imperial Senate , many vessels would be appropriated by the early rebellion and Rebel Alliance against the First Galactic Empire , despite not being designed as a combat-oriented vessel."

4 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

My point isn’t whether or not the Empire actually has more CR90s (or Nebulons, or Dreadnoughts, etc.) They probably do. My point is about actual merchandising potential based on fan perception, which I feel should be compatible with lore, but placed a step above it. I agree with your initial claim: Venators, VSDs, Acclamators, and Arqs are clear choices for Imperial ships. Not just because the Empire had access to vastly more of them, but because they look Imperial and/or get screentime as Imperial craft. For the same reasons, we probably both agree the CR90 shouldn’t be an Imperial ship in-game, even if it would be canonically correct.

(As an aside, CR90s were in wide use by a number of parties, like planetary defense forces, smugglers, diplomats and pirates. This implies to me they could be bought directly from the shipyards, or otherwise acquired. I don’t doubt some served in the Imperial navy, but the percentage is suspect.)

The CR90 is the Toyota Camry of Star Wars. Everyone has one, dependable, cheapish, relatively safe.

5 hours ago, geek19 said:

The CR90 is the Toyota Camry of Star Wars. Everyone has one, dependable, cheapish, relatively safe.

When the Rebels mount weapons on their Camry and launch raids on cargo shipments, it’s “restoring freedom to the galaxy.” When I do it, it’s “illegal” and “dangerous.”

There’s no justice in this world...