Anyone have any table tests or stuff? I guess we don't know the cost value yet eh? (Looks like it should go down quite a bit)

36 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Anyone have any table tests or stuff? I guess we don't know the cost value yet eh? (Looks like it should go down quite a bit)

I'm not sure whether it'll get that much cheaper, but we can hope. It's definitely taken hits from pretty much all directions:

• Jamming - the Reaper's signature action (because it has white jam and red co-ordinate compared to the Lambda's white co-ordinate and red jam)
  • Jam tokens now disappear at the end of the round
  • Jamming is now, apparently, range 1 only (not range 1 or range 2 in arc)
    • If this is true, that's a big hit - and means Static Discharge Vanes are very annoying, since you end up jamming yourself!
• Manouvrability
  • The Reaper's dial has, critically, lost its speed 1 white turn.
  • Lack of a white turn has reduced its ability to turn on a dime dramatically, in a game where most ships have received a dial improvement if it's changed at all.
    • Admittedly, most of these improvements are the addition of Segnor's Loops and Talon Rolls, and the Reaper still retains it's incredibly flexible aileron-into-loop.
• Durability
  • Lightweight Frame is no longer a thing
  • Admittedly, it was only 1 green dice. But 1 green die on an 8 hit point ship can be expected to be rolled 3-4 times, which should mean 2-3 evades if you're able to have focus tokens at the right time.

However:

• Lightweight Frame was a thing you paid for, and the general level of firepower is supposedly reduced, so that's probably a wash.
• Being on a medium base means that both its standard moves and its aileron moves are faster - with the speed 3 white bank from Advanced Ailerons baked into the base dial, the reaper's long, banking turns are even faster now (by about half a base-worth).
• Red co-ordinate is not something you'd use too often (tactical officer does make it white but then tactical officer in 1.0 gives you co-ordinate from scratch), but Vizier's post-aileron co-ordinate is amazing, especially with Ciena Rees
• Death Troopers are probably improved - they're very different cards, one being a sort of 'imperial biggs' and the other making the Reaper into a blocker extraordinaire (combine with Intimidation for comedy value) but only really useful on the reaper or decimator (oicunn probably likes them); the lambda isn't agile enough to get within range 1 of people and the phantom doesn't have the space.

I think the reaper will probably get cheaper. Whilst in 1.0 it's essentially the 'jamming ship', in 2.0 one big change to the Imperial line-up is the removal of the TIE shuttle. The reaper could well be aimed to drop in as the ~20 point token buddy, with Jamming as a secondary option.

I'd expect it to get a LOT cheaper, given that it's approaching 1e Lambda levels of dial terribleness, but doesn't get the new shiny buttguns that the 2e lambda does. I'd hope to see it get significantly cheaper.

Mm. The new lambda will be tons of fun though.

But really kinda seeing if I can not buy two Reapers.. and two Punishers. Cuz these seem to be weird 1.0 lists.

If we go back to Lambda and Vader and Soontir. I'll be pretty happy.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

But really kinda seeing if I can not buy two Reapers.. and two Punishers. Cuz these seem to be weird 1.0 lists.

If we go back to Lambda and Vader and Soontir. I'll be pretty happy.

4 medium bases could be funny, especially with how good Reapers can be at blocking.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd expect it to get a LOT cheaper, given that it's approaching 1e Lambda levels of dial terribleness, but doesn't get the new shiny buttguns that the 2e lambda does

in fairness (and I say this hesitantly since I love the Reaper's current dial), that's not entirely true.

If you're not stressed, it can do both 90' turns - it can do a hard turn by doing bank/bank (works out as equivalent to a 'speed 4 turn' template) - and end-around moves (it still has its speed 1 segnor's loops, which with ailerons they can do something that looks like a Koiogran or an IG-88-esque 90' segnor. Yes, it takes a lot of space to do 90' turns (it's heavier than the 'speed 3 turn only' TIE bomber) but it can do them.

Also, it's probably worth noting that the Electronic Baffle has (for reasons best known to FFG) changed from a systems upgrade to a modification.

Trading one of 8 shields for a 'white' 90' segnor's loop or 135' turn on a reaper sounds like something worth considering.

I still agree it should be cheaper - as I say, it's now essentially the updated "TIE shuttle", which was 20 points with fleet officer and twin ion engines mkII

The sloops are a good argument, yeah.

I'd still hope it's equivalent at the very most.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The sloops are a good argument, yeah.

I'd still hope it's equivalent at the very most.

Oh, it definitely doesn't deserve to get more expensive. No argument there. Whether it'll stick at the 22 (44) points or get dropped to the 'five-for' bracket of 20 (40) points or under will be the main decider.

Of course, sans lightweight frame, a striker squad can sub out one or two of their numbers for a reapers with no real impact, even if the points aren't changed.

Given how many insanely awesome crew that are available to Imperials and the likely possibilty that Bombers wont be able to substitute as crew shuttles anymore I think the Reaper will always be relevant at minimum as a cheap crew carrier.

Couple that with the fact that premovement boost of any kind is decent in 2.0, even if the turns are red...and yea I think it will still be a workable ship in 2.0 for sure.

Yeah, I think the value might well come in the form of being a cheap crew carrier that can pull its weight in combat, something the Imperials lack. Jam seems pretty bad now but that may just be because it's so good in 1st edition. I think it'll probably be thoroughly OK but that might be subject to change if it turns out to not be very survivable given that it needs to survive to continue to be a good support ship.

It may not matter if it has taken some hits due to the fact that the TIE shuttle seems to have been taken out in 2.0. That makes it one of the only games in town.

That being said, here are your Imperial crew carrying options in 2.0:

• Decimator
• Lambda shuttle
• TIE Reaper
• TIE Phantom

All of these ships offer different roles. The Reaper and the Lambda are somewhat similar, but the reaper offers a giant boost to maneuverability over the shuttle. Both these ships offer great support options, but the Reaper (like the TIE Phantom) can play a strong role outside a classic formation.

1 hour ago, BDrafty said:

It may not matter if it has taken some hits due to the fact that the TIE shuttle seems to have been taken out in 2.0. That makes it one of the only games in town.

That being said, here are your Imperial crew carrying options in 2.0:

• Decimator
• Lambda shuttle
• TIE Reaper
• TIE Phantom

All of these ships offer different roles. The Reaper and the Lambda are somewhat similar, but the reaper offers a giant boost to maneuverability over the shuttle. Both these ships offer great support options, but the Reaper (like the TIE Phantom) can play a strong role outside a classic formation.

Phantom might not even get a crew slot in 2.0. I'd put my money on it getting a gunner slot instead.

2 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Phantom might not even get a crew slot in 2.0. I'd put my money on it getting a gunner slot instead.

Would a gunner fit the ships characteristics? It doesn't have a turret or a rear arc. The game it is from shows two people in it, but that doesn't mean they will leave a slot for it. The game that had the Defender had it link fire and that has been removed from 2.0.

Who knows?

@Magnus Grendel Summed things up very well. If I were to guess, the lambda and the reaper are kind of swapping in 2.0 - the reaper will be the cheapest crew carrier for imps and the lambda will be the more expensive premium one. So - yes the reaper got nerfed hard, but as long as it got cheaper it may well still be viable (**** there are some strong imp crew in 2.0)

One thing I personally see being overlooked is the upgrade to a medium base. @Magnus Grendel mentioned it from the standpoint of length of maneuvering. Yet, much like large bases the Jam action being restricted to Range 1 was done as more larger bases can now do it. The Medium base combined with the Ailerons should allow for better range control as it’s R1 Bubble is that much larger than a small based ship.

Since your trading actions now for either the current action or a future action in the turn with tokens falling off the cost looks more restricted. ISB slicers allows the token to stay though creating a different headache for an opponent if you jam after they took a tokenless action or before they move and consider just doing a tokenless action just thinking the jam will fall away at the end of the turn .

That medium base may adjust the cost though it likely shouldn’t.

meh, none of the changes are going to impact the Reaper that much other than the (so far) lack of range 2 in-arc jam.

Otherwise, 1.0 Reaper is unacceptable in a game that claims to have far less access to reliable, action (and token) independent modifiers

But 2.0 reaper is still going to be running around with Darth Vader (crew) and taking names with Vermeil's ability, or tanking with Feroph's vastly superior 2.0 ability

Important to note that Range 1 is a larger footprint than 1.0 Range 1, Reaper is now a medium base.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Red co-ordinate is not something you'd use too often

I think red coordinate may have some use as a way to turn off Ailerons for the next turn, if you're planning ahead.

(And your squad doesn't lose out on total actions taken.)

Yet again a case of Betteridge‘s law of headlines:

Quote

Didi the Reaper get fubar'ed in 2.0?

No.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

meh, none of the changes are going to impact the Reaper that much other than the (so far) lack of range 2 in-arc jam.

The 1 hard turn changing from white to red is a *huge* change I feel. 1 bank into 1 turn is one of the defining moves for both the Reaper and Striker. Without it, it's going to fly very differently.

Caveat: My 2.0 understandings are very patchy indeed, so I don't know the actuality of any the following...

Lightweight frame gone as regards the more limited attack mods I keep hearing about. So it's all probably fine. Also evade token being a little worse, I guess.

But I feel like I'm seeing a fair bit more attack twice biz. Gunners, 4 charge Cluster Missiles. Presumably Quickdraw will have some kind of charge based twist. I don't know about Corran or if there's even more beyond him.... Maybe you can add splash effects from Concussions and so on to the list...

Perhaps to the point that almost all meta squads will end up featuring extra attacks and ways to spread it about.

Anyway, ramble, ramble. Is it at all possible that more limited attack mods might be balanced by having more attack options? So defensive nerfs might actually hurt a lot more than people currently feel they will...

Based on my testing, it's a pretty bad combat ship in 2.0. Without stress, your minimum forward movement 1+1.5+1+1.5) is the equivalent to a small-base 4 straight. If you attacked at range 3 this turn, you're probably going too fast to shoot at the same target next turn. The red coordinate action helps a lot with this.

So I've been playing 2.0 in FlyCasual with the Reaper quite a bit and man that takes some real getting used to. First off, as awesome as the 1-sloops are, on a medium base, they are so easy to block. The Reaper gets blocked to death or self-stresses almost every move. The best I can do is about one action every other turn. I've started doing better since I began deploying facing sideways and moving up a lot more slowly, but once it gets into the mess, you basically have to choose between getting shots and getting actions.

Also, basically never fly 2.0 Krennic in a reaper. I've never successfully gotten a useful target lock because either you have no one in arc or you don't have an action. Putting him in an ST-321 Lambda would be so much more useful.

Here's the thing: I'm pretty sure that the Lambda will be a vastly superior support ship to the Reaper in 2.0 (as it should be). Its ability to slow roll and range control are much, much better, and the fact that it can take advanced sensors is a lot bigger than you might expect. The Reaper isn't really a support ship at all. It's a troop carrier and gunship. It has a bunch of health and throws 3 dice, and it can block nicely and carry Death Troopers or Seventh Sister and ISB Slicers to put the hurt on your enemies passively. On the other hand, if you do need a cheap support ship, Electronic Baffle could be quite a solid option since it's long health and short actions.

All these things will take a while to sort through, but I think the biggest message I'm getting is that the thematics are a lot better in 2.0: The Lambda is an amazing support ship with low maneuverability but a good capacity for actions. The Reaper is a cheap gunship and troop carrier that moves super fast, but has pretty abysmal action economy.

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

Lightweight frame gone as regards the more limited attack mods I keep hearing about.

Just because you keep hearing it, that doesn't mean it makes sense.

Look. Attack mods are reduced, and more skill based now, which is amazing. This affects everyone the same. This means, that a TIE fighter's defenses got better (except for the evade nerf), Fang's defenses got better, etc... Literally every ship benefits from weaker attack mods. Even 0 Agi ships. Some ships were adjusted to deal with this, and you generally can't stack double defenses, and in the cases when you do, it is done when several ships work together, or you do some nice plays.

However, all the ships that had access to LWF now don't, so comparatively, these ships got worse in their defensive capabilities.

It's not like LWF was only useful against hypermodded 5 dice attacks from Rey. It was useful against a naked 3 dice attack as well. Saying that the loss of LWF is fine, because we don't have hypermodded high dice attacks, is

A, a lie, because we do have heavily modified attacks, Scum and Rebels have no problems throwing 4-5 dice, with the Ghost, Scum Falcon, Fenn Rau, TBC and Dash, and with skilled play and squadbuilding, you can achieve lots of mods. It is undeniably more difficult, but it is still POSSIBLE.

B, a false statement, as LWF was not solely useful against those attacks. It worked against most attacks.