Group Implosion and Video Games

By Archlyte, in Game Masters

Being old as dirt, a friend of mine who is equally paleolithic kind of came to the conclusion that what I actually miss is the feel of the old, very dangerous Dungeons & Dragons games of the past. In those days we would make characters and if they somehow lived to a new level you would bother looking into what kind of meager bonuses you received, or some new spells. Magic Items were always nice and a good way to help you survive. Death was common, and when characters advanced past 5th level it was a big deal. I loved my characters, but I also was ok when they died because it was a sacrifice on the altar of danger.

The next generation of Pen and Paper Role-Playing games came out looking to change that and had a more Narrative bent than D&D, which was hatched from a wargame and still had those genes. More emphasis was made on characters living and progressing because to a Narrativist point of view, character death is the end of the story.

Computer Games and Console games eventually became popular, and I originally thought there was a good chance that P&P would be replaced by the video counterpart, but this was not to happen. In addition to the fact that the world and interface could not sustain the same freedom, the video game was able to feed someone a much bigger ego trip. The computer GM does not complain about murder hobo behavior, and it is there to feed you success. Video Games are made to turn a profit as I said in the OP, so the game does not have the same kind of repercussions. Players of computer/console games found perma-death less and less common. The attention spans reduced, the draw of saving the world every time with the same character you started with grew and was reinforced over many titles.

How does this relate to this thread?

Well I believe that in my original gaming experiences we didn't have as much of the PCs fighting each other because the world was always trying to kill us and we needed each other to survive. Losing even one member usually hurt the party, and the Role-Playing wasn't so Telenovela back then in my groups so no one really spent time having these big conflicts over characters talking to each other like middle school enemies (even though ironically back then we actually were in middle school :) ). We had bigger fish to fry. My friend has a list of rules he goes by and one of his rules is that the PCs need to be cohesive. I feel that this is wise rule. My objection to something like that rule would usually be in the form of suggesting that variety is good, but I think that it's really not. At least not if you are to have the classic Star Wars hero's journey or some variation of that which bears resemblance to the movie feel. No, give me a group ready to actually kill some bad guys instead of being antisocial individual edge lords any day of the week.

I think youve got a bit of rose colored hindsight going. I can remember party drama back when Wizardry was cutting edge, before there even was the ability to be a murder hobo on anything other than monsters.

I more think that poor social adjustment is more an effect of the internet in general than CRPGs or MMORPGers specifically. There is a whole generation who can hide behind a computer screen and a user name instead of having to be rude face to face. They just arent used to there being any sort of direct accountability to their actions, especially when playing.

DnD was totally hardcore, yeah. No resurrections! No wish spells!

Uh, I mean...

16 hours ago, korjik said:

I think youve got a bit of rose colored hindsight going. I can remember party drama back when Wizardry was cutting edge, before there even was the ability to be a murder hobo on anything other than monsters.

I more think that poor social adjustment is more an effect of the internet in general than CRPGs or MMORPGers specifically. There is a whole generation who can hide behind a computer screen and a user name instead of having to be rude face to face. They just arent used to there being any sort of direct accountability to their actions, especially when playing.

I think I erroneously originally framed this with CRPGs in the crosshairs, and it's all of these factors combined. I too remember having jerks in games in the early 80's and none of us having played anything beyond arcade games or Atari 2600 at that point. I don't really think that the computer/console games caused this I guess, but that the effect has been polished by it. Add to that your excellent observation about internet anonymity and how it can have a negative effect on interpersonal interactions, and it's a complete picture.

On 8/3/2018 at 7:37 PM, Archlyte said:

Being old as dirt, a friend of mine who is equally paleolithic kind of came to the conclusion that what I actually miss is the feel of the old, very dangerous Dungeons & Dragons games of the past. In those days we would make characters and if they somehow lived to a new level you would bother looking into what kind of meager bonuses you received, or some new spells. Magic Items were always nice and a good way to help you survive. Death was common, and when characters advanced past 5th level it was a big deal. I loved my characters, but I also was ok when they died because it was a sacrifice on the altar of danger.

If this is the style of gaming that you're looking for, you should check out KenzerCo's HackMaster RPG.

It conveys a lot of the flavor that you would find in the original RPG's, but it has some innovations and updates that I found quite intriguing.