I get why people have an initiative bid in their lists so they can be the first player. But if your the first player you choose one of your opponents objectives making your pointless. So why so much fuss on which objectives you build your list around especially if your bidding for initiative to be first player. Am I missing something?

First off some people actually include a decent initiative bid to ensure they go second. They tailor their lists to do well at their chosen 3 objectives. They have a plan and don't mind going second. I admit these bidders are in the minority and most people who have large bids prefer to go first.

Going first also lets you choose the least bad (or occasionally - surprisingly great) of the three missions on offer to play.

But what happens if your decent 12 point bid is outmatched by an opponent who wanted first player more than you? I have seen 25 point bids before..... You will find yourself as second player so it's better to put some thought into selecting decent missions for your fleet, even if you only have to use them rarely.

Personally I love going first, but also like upgrades on my ships. I usually stick with a 1-4 point bid. Some tournaments I get to go first in all games. 400 is a quite common occurrence so a small bid still helps.

I find it very helpful to have a small bid 3-4 points and then have a list that can go first or second. If you plan on going second and don’t have any decent first player type threats, someone is going to give you first and you’re sunk. Same deal with the reverse. Bottom line and answer to your question is: you need your fleet to be flexible enough and have answers to as many problems as possible, ie being outbid and made 1st or 2nd.

We have seen bids upwards of 25 points in our meta occasionally. It was really important to go first during the time of BTAvenger. It just wasn't reliable unless you could Last/First with Avenger. So lists that had that ship would bid crazy amounts. We also have one player in our meta that cannot stand to go second, and so will always have a 10-20 point bid in order to always go first.

Ok thats what i thought just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.

I find that the most flexible lists do take a modest bid and then elect to go either first or second depending upon the opponent's list. So many lists will be at 399-400 that even a 398 bid will net you the choice much of the time. Someone bidding more than 6 points is usually looking to go first, and you also start getting into the bidding war between those lists on who exactly gets to go first. But there is enormous value in having the choice and then using your objectives in key match-ups.

1 hour ago, XR8rGREAT said:

Ok thats what i thought just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I was missing.

It seems like it's been for a very long time that going first with a large number of activations has been generally preferred over forcing someone to choose from among your objectives. That is certainly where my tournament fleet is at the moment. Demolisher , and the opportunity to go last in one round and first in the following round (a.k.a. the "triple tap" drive-by) is a large part of why this is so.

I'm continually amazed at how many opponents I meet who treat the 400 point limit like a goal: pack every upgrade possible into a list, retool if you can't get it as close as possible to 400. I get the stuff I want and keep adding until there's nothing left I can afford that's worth it. My typical bid is less than 10 points, and I just aim for a capable list that can win any of its objectives but doesn't count on them.

I don't blow out tournaments with a jaw-dropping build that bids 25 points to go first and 10-1s everything it touches, but I do fine.

I played a 20+ point bid list for a long while. It definitely has some strengths. It also has some weaknesses.

The reason to pick objectives carefully is that there are some times where you simply will be forced to go 2nd, either by losing the bid or to avoid an all-out points rout in a tournament. I played a guy with a 20 point bid once and beat his bid by nearly 10 points.

A major bid to go first typically indicates a particular strategy or combo that is dependent on one or two ships being able to attack or move before the enemy can react. Demo is a good example, so is Avenger. So is a slicer flotilla. The 20-30 point bid is an upgrade to ensure those scouts have the opportunity to activate first in their most critical moment.

On the other hand, some players want a bid to ensure they get to play 2nd player. 2nd player gets to play their carefully chosen objectives and will automatically win tied games. They can force the enemy to move first into a bad position or react to a changing battlefield.

On 7/20/2018 at 11:36 AM, XR8rGREAT said:

I get why people have an initiative bid in their lists so they can be the first player. But if your the first player you choose one of your opponents objectives making your pointless. So why so much fuss on which objectives you build your list around especially if your bidding for initiative to be first player. Am I missing something?

If you face an opponent with 2+ Strategic squadrons, you may want to consider taking second yourself. It is possible that they have an objective trio along the lines of: Most Wanted, Fire Lanes, and Sensor Net. Each of these is capable of generating something like 150-250 points for the second player, off the objectives alone. Which is why some of us like going second.

On 7/20/2018 at 4:03 AM, Mad Cat said:

But what happens if your decent 12 point bid is outmatched by an opponent who wanted first player more than you? I have  seen 25 point bids before.....

Your welcome