1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

If they don't use this extra season to show us a Victory-class Star Destroyer, so we can finally patch that poor boat, I'm going to be really mad.

I'm so done with FFG jamming unwanted content for the rest of us down our throats. I left X-wing because 1. Scum content took up half the wave content and 2. the one R/E ship we got each wave was the dregs. The TIE Interdictor Punisher? You've got to be kidding me.

And now you're asking us GCW fans to take a backseat to Seperatists and Republic forces that we can't use to augment our current forces? On top of an expansion model that is already roughly 1-2 waves per year? And you're going to pack tactically-important cards in ship packs that force us to commit to another faction?

 Hard pass. X-Wing was enough.

If you want clone content, Rebels get sepratists and empire gets republic. That's the only way I can get behind adding clone wars content. We have precedent with the Arquitens. Fans can generate their own "Clone Wars" tournaments by restricting ship selection to canonical vessels in the cartoon. Otherwise, I'm not interested... but I am down for a rebel-operated Recusant as a medium ship acting as a super nebulon.

It's what I'd expect if First Order and resistance came to the game- I want to use them with the current factions I have now- as that's pretty much where they'd go. I don't want another era that locks away my favorite ships from play.

I think dividing Clone Wars content for Rebel/Empire (maybe Light Side/Dark Side?) use is fine, especially since a CW narrative campaign would fit brilliantly with a dedicated wave release.

I'm honestly wondering what's left in the GCW aside from the SSD? Even if we include everything shown in Rebels, it seems like there's not much content left at the Capital Ship scale to really flesh out the game. While moving forward into the Force Awakens timeline will open up a small number of new ships, we've only seen a grand total of 2 Imperial ships that could even possibly fit onto a table and 4 Rebel ships. Total.

The Clone Wars cartoon has enough content to field nearly as many ships AND squadrons as are in the game now, and those are entirely from official Lucasfilm and Disney canon sources. No 3rd party video games or comic books necessary. Players already get 2 ships from the core set (The Vic1 and the CR90, respectively) that are canonically from the Clone Wars and we also have both the Arquitens and the Pelta in the game. That's 4 ships already available to the existing factions, and evenly split.

This is the perfect time for FFG to jump on a project that is uniquely suited to Armada.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

If they don't use this extra season to show us a Victory-class Star Destroyer, so we can finally patch that poor boat, I'm going to be really mad.

I'm so done with FFG jamming unwanted content for the rest of us down our throats. I left X-wing because 1. Scum content took up half the wave content and 2. the one R/E ship we got each wave was the dregs. The TIE Interdictor Punisher? You've got to be kidding me.

And now you're asking us GCW fans to take a backseat to Seperatists and Republic forces that we can't use to augment our current forces? On top of an expansion model that is already roughly 1-2 waves per year? And you're going to pack tactically-important cards in ship packs that force us to commit to another faction?

Hard pass. X-Wing was enough.

If you want clone content, Rebels get sepratists and empire gets republic. That's the only way I can get behind adding clone wars content. We have precedent with the Arquitens. Fans can generate their own "Clone Wars" tournaments by restricting ship selection to canonical vessels in the cartoon. Otherwise, I'm not interested... but I am down for a rebel-operated Recusant as a medium ship acting as a super nebulon.

It's what I'd expect if First Order and resistance came to the game- I want to use them with the current factions I have now- as that's pretty much where they'd go. I don't want another era that locks away my favorite ships from play.

Bye.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

If they don't use this extra season to show us a Victory-class Star Destroyer, so we can finally patch that poor boat, I'm going to be really mad.

I'm so done with FFG jamming unwanted content for the rest of us down our throats. I left X-wing because 1. Scum content took up half the wave content and 2. the one R/E ship we got each wave was the dregs. The TIE Interdictor Punisher? You've got to be kidding me.

And now you're asking us GCW fans to take a backseat to Seperatists and Republic forces that we can't use to augment our current forces? On top of an expansion model that is already roughly 1-2 waves per year? And you're going to pack tactically-important cards in ship packs that force us to commit to another faction?

Hard pass. X-Wing was enough.

If you want clone content, Rebels get sepratists and empire gets republic. That's the only way I can get behind adding clone wars content. We have precedent with the Arquitens. Fans can generate their own "Clone Wars" tournaments by restricting ship selection to canonical vessels in the cartoon. Otherwise, I'm not interested... but I am down for a rebel-operated Recusant as a medium ship acting as a super nebulon.

It's what I'd expect if First Order and resistance came to the game- I want to use them with the current factions I have now- as that's pretty much where they'd go. I don't want another era that locks away my favorite ships from play.

You and I have had this discussion before and we'll always disagree. Separate factions are easier to balance and open up new design space. Resistance bomber and Yavaris? No thanks. I'd rather pack as many dice into that flying fortress as I can without worry about Jan throwing braces or Yavaris double tapping with them. The Victory has a nice niche as an artillery piece. Thanks but no thanks on yet another expansion to "fix" content that doesn't need it. THAT would be content nobody wants. Clone Wars and TFA/TLJ are perfectly acceptable eras to branch into. There's isn't much left canonically for the GCW anyway. There's the SSD, that Rebel gunship I can't spell without looking up, and....yeah that's about it.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

If they don't use this extra season to show us a Victory-class Star Destroyer, so we can finally patch that poor boat, I'm going to be really mad.

I'm so done with FFG jamming unwanted content for the rest of us down our throats. I left X-wing because 1. Scum content took up half the wave content and 2. the one R/E ship we got each wave was the dregs. The TIE Interdictor Punisher? You've got to be kidding me.

And now you're asking us GCW fans to take a backseat to Seperatists and Republic forces that we can't use to augment our current forces? On top of an expansion model that is already roughly 1-2 waves per year? And you're going to pack tactically-important cards in ship packs that force us to commit to another faction?

Hard pass. X-Wing was enough.

If you want clone content, Rebels get sepratists and empire gets republic. That's the only way I can get behind adding clone wars content. We have precedent with the Arquitens. Fans can generate their own "Clone Wars" tournaments by restricting ship selection to canonical vessels in the cartoon. Otherwise, I'm not interested... but I am down for a rebel-operated Recusant as a medium ship acting as a super nebulon.

It's what I'd expect if First Order and resistance came to the game- I want to use them with the current factions I have now- as that's pretty much where they'd go. I don't want another era that locks away my favorite ships from play.

Was this necessary? This is why those of us that promote the game have to warn newbies about this forum.

26 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

Bye.

Man, even writing that post I realized I was having an old-man-yells-at-cloud moment. I'll likely be buying whatever comes out anyway, because I can't get enough plastic spaceships. The Septratist faction ships are going to look rad in Rebellion/resistance colors, and as a primary Empire player I'll be okay with the Venator- though I'd be longing for the Resurgent. The only thing I'd desire is these ships to be playable in current factions because I'd rather fly them with what I have already. Even the reverse side of a base would be acceptable.

19 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Resistance bomber and Yavaris?

FFG is no stranger to making canonical units under-powered compared to what they should be. If we were really adhering to lore, VSD-IIs are speed 3 as it was one of the features in the refit to make them better suited for ship-to-ship combat. Additionally, B-Wings should be just as tough as Y-Wings and hit as hard as an X-Wing. They don't.

I'd expect resistance bombers to have a B-Wing battery at speed 1 with 1300 health, the firepower of a Y-Wing, and the cost of a VT with heavy. Ace would have a single token. Or something. We all know Resistance bombers aren't going to live up to their on-screen reputation, so why use this as a pretext to say Resistance + Yavaris is going to be bad?

Besides, if FFG does the proper thing and further nerfs Yavaris (or one of its enablers), Yavaris won't be that bad.

1 minute ago, Norsehound said:

Man, even writing that post I realized I was having an old-man-yells-at-cloud moment. I'll likely be buying whatever comes out anyway, because I can't get enough plastic spaceships. The Septratist faction ships are going to look rad in Rebellion/resistance colors, and as a primary Empire player I'll be okay with the Venator- though I'd be longing for the Resurgent. The only thing I'd desire is these ships to be playable in current factions because I'd rather fly them with what I have already. Even the reverse side of a base would be acceptable.

FFG is no stranger to making canonical units under-powered compared to what they should be. If we were really adhering to lore, VSD-IIs are speed 3 as it was one of the features in the refit to make them better suited for ship-to-ship combat. Additionally, B-Wings should be just as tough as Y-Wings and hit as hard as an X-Wing. They don't.

I'd expect resistance bombers to have a B-Wing battery at speed 1 with 1300 health, the firepower of a Y-Wing, and the cost of a VT with heavy. Ace would have a single token. Or something. We all know Resistance bombers aren't going to live up to their on-screen reputation, so why use this as a pretext to say Resistance + Yavaris is going to be bad?

Besides, if FFG does the proper thing and further nerfs Yavaris (or one of its enablers), Yavaris won't be that bad.

See, was that so hard? That wasn't hostile or otherwise causing collateral damage.

I do agree with Truthiness that new factions will be easier to balance, but I'm sympathetic to your objections about card-hunting across different expansions. Hopefully over time we'll transition to Legion's model of (eventually at least) releasing all non-unique cards on both sides.

If they come out with TCW stuff I’m selling all my current Armada for that. I like the GCW era but TCW was my childhood and it’s why I got into Armada in the first place, hoping they’d eventually put out Clone Wars factions.

43 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

If they come out with TCW stuff I’m selling all my current Armada for that. I like the GCW era but TCW was my childhood and it’s why I got into Armada in the first place, hoping they’d eventually put out Clone Wars factions.

As much as I loathe portions of the Prequels, I think we older fans need to realize that guys like you not only grew up with the Prequels and The Clone Wars, but that you've grown up largely with an entirely different lore and universe compared to us and you want that to be celebrated just as much as we do for the novels and comic books that bridged the gap for 20 years between the Original and Prequel trilogies.

Another thing that I want to appreciate is that the LucasFilm art team made some genuinely excellent designs for the technology and equipment designs of the Prequels. And they didn't just make a few items. They made hundreds of new models for everything from starfighters and warships to passenger cars and mundane technology. Some of their best work was in the items that Armada wants to showcase, the large warships and swarming squadrons.

The prequels also gave us the the first detailed ship-on-ship naval combat in the entire franchise. Outside of a few seconds of laser fire traded between two ships in Return of the Jedi and the opening scene of A New Hope, there is never a point where two capital ships trade fire on screen in the Original trilogy. Most of our actual impressions of capital combat from the films were created entirely within the Prequels and Clone Wars.

5 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

As much as I loathe portions of the Prequels, I think we older fans need to realize that guys like you not only grew up with the Prequels and The Clone Wars, but that you've grown up largely with an entirely different lore and universe compared to us and you want that to be celebrated just as much as we do for the novels and comic books that bridged the gap for 20 years between the Original and Prequel trilogies.

No, no, no. If the garbage nerds get to complain because women have roles or do things or whatever in 7-8-9, I get to complain whenever someone else wants something they liked. That way NO ONE gets anything they want and we all have a miserable time.

That's how good game design works, right?

13 minutes ago, thecactusman17 said:

As much as I loathe portions of the Prequels, I think we older fans need to realize that guys like you not only grew up with the Prequels and The Clone Wars, but that you've grown up largely with an entirely different lore and universe compared to us and you want that to be celebrated just as much as we do for the novels and comic books that bridged the gap for 20 years between the Original and Prequel trilogies.

Another thing that I want to appreciate is that the LucasFilm art team made some genuinely excellent designs for the technology and equipment designs of the Prequels. And they didn't just make a few items. They made hundreds of new models for everything from starfighters and warships to passenger cars and mundane technology. Some of their best work was in the items that Armada wants to showcase, the large warships and swarming squadrons.

The prequels also gave us the the first detailed ship-on-ship naval combat in the entire franchise. Outside of a few seconds of laser fire traded between two ships in Return of the Jedi and the opening scene of A New Hope, there is never a point where two capital ships trade fire on screen in the Original trilogy. Most of our actual impressions of capital combat from the films were created entirely within the Prequels and Clone Wars.

Thank you. Hearing this from an OT guy such as yourself really means a lot to me. You guys laid the groundwork for everything that I grew up with to be possible and that is awesome.

I'd be down with prequel factions entering the game, but would like FFG to design a new core then, as the current one is just....bad. If they did this though, I'd like FFG to also release a sort-of "conversion" for some of the current ships, and also make sure each wave has a ship for each faction (yes, even if this firmly puts us in the one-wave-per-year camp). I'd also like to see sequel factions but that may have to wait.

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

As much as I loathe portions of the Prequels, I think we older fans need to realize that guys like you not only grew up with the Prequels and The Clone Wars, but that you've grown up largely with an entirely different lore and universe compared to us and you want that to be celebrated just as much as we do for the novels and comic books that bridged the gap for 20 years between the Original and Prequel trilogies.

Another thing that I want to appreciate is that the LucasFilm art team made some genuinely excellent designs for the technology and equipment designs of the Prequels. And they didn't just make a few items. They made hundreds of new models for everything from starfighters and warships to passenger cars and mundane technology. Some of their best work was in the items that Armada wants to showcase, the large warships and swarming squadrons.

The prequels also gave us the the first detailed ship-on-ship naval combat in the entire franchise. Outside of a few seconds of laser fire traded between two ships in Return of the Jedi and the opening scene of A New Hope, there is never a point where two capital ships trade fire on screen in the Original trilogy. Most of our actual impressions of capital combat from the films were created entirely within the Prequels and Clone Wars.

To finally hear an OT person make the argument I've been making for years totally unprompted was very nice. There's a reason my dream ship for this game is the Venator, and you articulated it quite nicely.

5 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

To finally hear an OT person make the argument I've been making for years totally unprompted was very nice. There's a reason my dream ship for this game is the Venator, and you articulated it quite nicely.

I just bought one from Mel’s, so I’m currently in that awkward spot between desperately wanting an official one while simultaneously wanting to be the guy with a cool alt model of that epic ship

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

As much as I loathe portions of the Prequels, I think we older fans need to realize that guys like you not only grew up with the Prequels and The Clone Wars, but that you've grown up largely with an entirely different lore and universe compared to us and you want that to be celebrated just as much as we do for the novels and comic books that bridged the gap for 20 years between the Original and Prequel trilogies.

Another thing that I want to appreciate is that the LucasFilm art team made some genuinely excellent designs for the technology and equipment designs of the Prequels. And they didn't just make a few items. They made hundreds of new models for everything from starfighters and warships to passenger cars and mundane technology. Some of their best work was in the items that Armada wants to showcase, the large warships and swarming squadrons.

The prequels also gave us the the first detailed ship-on-ship naval combat in the entire franchise. Outside of a few seconds of laser fire traded between two ships in Return of the Jedi and the opening scene of A New Hope, there is never a point where two capital ships trade fire on screen in the Original trilogy. Most of our actual impressions of capital combat from the films were created entirely within the Prequels and Clone Wars.

That... that was beautiful.

FFG: go Clone Wars or go home.

6 hours ago, Norsehound said:

If they don't use this extra season to show us a Victory-class Star Destroyer, so we can finally patch that poor boat, I'm going to be really mad.

I'm so done with FFG jamming unwanted content for the rest of us down our throats. I left X-wing because 1. Scum content took up half the wave content and 2. the one R/E ship we got each wave was the dregs. The TIE Interdictor Punisher? You've got to be kidding me.

I agree with you on some of the choices. That ridiculous Punisher over the Scimitar Assault Bomber!? And where is the TIE Avenger?

While I agree with the point about individual cards, which sucks, that happens already unfortunately. I’d favour separate factions but the odd ship from each, eg Acclamator & Venator can be used by empire & recusant can be used by rebels.

1 minute ago, ISD Avenger said:

I agree with you on some of the choices. That ridiculous Punisher over the Scimitar Assault Bomber!? And where is the TIE Avenger?

While I agree with the point about individual cards, which sucks, that happens already unfortunately. I’d favour separate factions but the odd ship from each, eg Acclamator & Venator can be used by empire & recusant can be used by rebels.

Why can't I have a Rebel Venator when FFG uses artwork depicting one?

10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Why can't I have a Rebel Venator when FFG uses artwork depicting one?

Well I guess you could but I was just keeping this simple for starters

Just now, ISD Avenger said:

Well I guess you could but I was just keeping this simple for starters

We'll just have to accept the fact that a man with your name has an anti-rebel bias after all

27 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Why can't I have a Rebel Venator when FFG uses artwork depicting one?

Anyone wanting to run Tydirium in X-Wing is wondering the same thing. Since the game began.

12 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

The highlighted part right there. Toy sales and merchandising for the new stuff have been in the toilet. Clone Wars means getting back into the pockets of long time fans that they've lost.

And....of course,

Sorry, you cannot add any more reactions today.

You’re looking a little too deep into this. Toy sales are in the toilet period, regardless of brand because kids don’t play with them anymore.

This new Clone Wars season is going straight to Disney’s streaming service. They know the Clone Wars has a fanbase and potential, so they’re trying to drag people over to their new platform.

That’s where the money comes in. I’d be surprised to see any new merchandise come from this unless it gets approved for more than one season.

And this isn’t me sticking my tongue out at you and going “you’re wrong, nanna nanna boo-boo,” this is me side-eyeing a well marketed attempt to get me to buy into something I don’t need another of (streaming service) because I knew the quality work Filoni and crew did (eventually) with this and wanted my sons to experience it which was easy when it was on the streaming service EVERYONE already has. Now? Now it’s a season-on-bluray purchase.

Nice try, Mouse

58 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

You’re looking a little too deep into this. Toy sales are in the toilet period, regardless of brand because kids don’t play with them anymore.

This new Clone Wars season is going straight to Disney’s streaming service. They know the Clone Wars has a fanbase and potential, so they’re trying to drag people over to their new platform.

That’s where the money comes in. I’d be surprised to see any new merchandise come from this unless it gets approved for more than one season.

And this isn’t me sticking my tongue out at you and going “you’re wrong, nanna nanna boo-boo,” this is me side-eyeing a well marketed attempt to get me to buy into something I don’t need another of (streaming service) because I knew the quality work Filoni and crew did (eventually) with this and wanted my sons to experience it which was easy when it was on the streaming service EVERYONE already has. Now? Now it’s a season-on-bluray purchase.

Nice try, Mouse

The streaming market is definitely huge. H*** Netflix sitting at an estimated value of $153bn is worth more than the Mouse already. Which is a large part of the problem in trying to establish new streaming services. In your own words Netflix is..."the streaming service EVERYONE already has". Services like Hulu, Amazon, and CBS have only managed to take very small pieces of the pie. Hulu, the largest after Netflix is worth $8.7bn by comparison. While I have no doubt that the mouse can out perform Netflix's competitors in the market, it is a market that is steadily seeing an uptick in competitiveness that's expected to keep growing. Disney definitely wants that money but toys and merchandising have always been solid producers for them and for Star Wars. They're not going to stop playing a factor just because there's other money to be made elsewhere

$88.8 bn worldwide and $20.74bn in the US for 2017. Toys sales aren't in the toilet across the board. The rate of growth has slowed in that market from 5% in 2016 to 1% in 2018. I don't know a single child that doesn't play with toys and the adult market is as large as ever.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/2017/us-toy-industry-grows-5-percent-in-2016-exceeding--20-billion-the-npd-group-reports/

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/2017/us-toy-industry-grows-5-percent-in-2016-exceeding--20-billion-the-npd-group-reports/

The lack of growth is largely from a decline in two categories, Action figures and Construction sets. Two areas where Star Wars has been dominant for years. The failures of the new movies to sell toys has a noticeable industry wide effect and I bet Mr. Mickey wants some of that money to start flowing back his way.

http://www.jcdailyunion.com/news/for-what-it-s-worth-it-s-no-surprise-star/article_5b8b02d8-7de1-11e7-b0d0-0f5bc946511f.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2017/12/21/why-arent-star-wars-toys-selling-as-well-this-year/#360c62354e5a

http://fortune.com/2018/01/18/with-star-wars-toys-the-force-is-strong-but-retail-sales-arent/

That doesn't mean that only Star Wars sales are down but the market has always fluctuated with trends based on popularity. Usually an I.P. like Star Wars sees a significant boost after a movie that wasn't the case for the last two.

TLDR: “you’re wrong, nanna nanna boo-boo,”?

I'm super excited about this. The Clone Wars actually filled in SO much and made me really get into the prequels. Ashoka's character arc is actually pretty incredible.

@MegatronrexI think Disney will be fine I don't see where you put Netflix above Disney in size. Disney corp is a lot bigger than Netflix. (Netflix is the one that should be afraid. Disney has their eyes set on streaming, and if anyone can break or bend Netflix, it is them.)

Also, overall toys are down to 1% growth in 2018 from 5% in 2016? That is huge decline. VIDEO GAMES. If they were around in 1977, I wouldn't have had the crappy OG toys to play with. (Yes they were crappy I said it. I love them, but they were **** ) The money has shifted to VIDEO GAMES. My boys are prequel age, and the StarWars toys they got were LEGOs. The mainly played VIDEO GAMES. (That being said, Star Wars toys are still near the top so they are making money.)

31 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

I'm super excited about this. The Clone Wars actually filled in SO much and made me really get into the prequels. Ashoka's character arc is actually pretty incredible.

@MegatronrexI think Disney will be fine I don't see where you put Netflix above Disney in size. Disney corp is a lot bigger than Netflix. (Netflix is the one that should be afraid. Disney has their eyes set on streaming, and if anyone can break or bend Netflix, it is them.)

Also, overall toys are down to 1% growth in 2018 from 5% in 2016? That is huge decline. VIDEO GAMES. If they were around in 1977, I wouldn't have had the crappy OG toys to play with. (Yes they were crappy I said it. I love them, but they were **** ) The money has shifted to VIDEO GAMES. My boys are prequel age, and the StarWars toys they got were LEGOs. The mainly played VIDEO GAMES. (That being said, Star Wars toys are still near the top so they are making money.)

I'm super excited too for Clone Wars too.

I have no doubts that Disney will be fine. Just saying toys and merchandising is has and always will be a big factor. Disney isn't usually a company to toss all their eggs in one basket. Their diversification is one of the reasons they've always been a solid investment.

I said Netflix is bigger than Disney because of it's market value (sorry I didn't cite the source)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dbloom/2018/05/26/netflix-disney-comcast-market-capitalization-valuation/#b85f62315618

While $0.4bn dollars isn't much of a lead it's still a lead. Granted those numbers have probably changed slightly but the article is only a month old.

The decline is in growth, not in sales. While it may be indicative of a larger trend it's only been in decline for 2 years. I'm not disputing that video games are the largest source of entertainment revenue either. They're $108bn a year industry

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-01-31-games-industry-generated-usd108-4bn-in-revenues-in-2017

I'm saying that just cause Disney has a piece of a $150bn pie and another piece of a $108bn pie doesn't mean they don't want a slice of the $88bn pie too.

If you give a mouse a cookie....

Yeah, but that is just in Market Capitalization. Not saying that isn't a big deal, but it is just one thing and they are not "worth more" than Disney when you look at everything. And that article you cited shows Netflix's debt issues.

And yeah, they are totally going after Netflix. I personally think there is room for both (I currently do Netflix and Hulu, and would totally ditch Hulu for Disney's stream service)