STAR WARS IMPERIAL TACTICS: VADER

Its time to begin the journey again!

Lets start with Vader.

Basically zero content here but I am so hyped for real X-Wing that I can't avoid rambling about it constantly and reading all the cards.

Spoilers: Supernatural, FCS, Afterburners = 93 pts go.

Pilot Card

• Advanced Targeting Computer
  • Instead of adding a crit, you change a hit result to a crit.
  • Still very powerful, effectively granting Vader a 3/3/3/2 stat line
• Pilot Ability
  • The tension of spending force charges on actions at the right moment and saving them is real
• Linked Action
  • Focus to Red Barrel Roll is actually pretty great for Vader
  • Opens things up so you can approach, Target lock, then burn a force charge to focus and barrel roll out of arc
  • Still leaves 2 force charges left over save the focus token for defending against 1 attack and then still have 2 more force charges to deal with additional attacks.
  • I believe Linked Actions can trigger off other cards that provide the first action, and the link is a may so you don't have to BR.
• Initiative 6
  • Veteran Instincts is gone which is in my opinion a massive buff to anything at Initiative 6 even though a bunch of generics are probably better
  • Still going to be able to out bid your opponent to move last ( assuming no unknown rule changes )
  • Now more than ever not taking shots is Vader's best defense.
  • Moving last is still good and often worth a bid and not something I ever feel bad about.

Force Powers

• Best Force Power on paper
  • Gives Vader the option to basically run a variation on Advanced Sensors and keep Fire Control System equipped
  • Obviously pre-movement actions are good ( see: Nym, Rebel Fenn, Kylo, Corran, IGs, etc. )
  • Even better in a world where everything uses Arcs of some kind! Have you played Kylo or Corran against other arcs recently?
  • Paired with Afterburners this gives Vader some amount of access to Boost
  • I can't imagine wanting to take that damage all that often
  • Still as a Nope Nope Nope button in a spot thats the difference between defending against 3 shots vs no shots it will get used definitely
  • Also could be entirely worth it in the end game if it sets up a kill shot etc.
  • Overall I expect this to be crazy expensive but worth it at anything but the most absurd possible costs.

• Closest thing to Deadeye 2.0 thats available.
  • If I can't fit Supernatural I think I will be having to choose between this and Sense or nothing for the bid ( probably nothing for the bid! ).
  • If I had to choose I would lean more towards sense because it benefits all the ships in your list.
  • There are a couple Talents I would prefer to take in place of Instinctive Aim or Sense but at this point we don't know for sure if Vader can choose between taking a Talent or Force Powers.

• Force based Intel Agent, but range 1-3
  • Not much to say about this other than that I would generally prefer that stuff like this didnt exist.
  • I appreciate the options that it opens up though and how it gives lower init ships some tools against high init
  • If you run Vader with a mini swarm of tie strikers sense has maybe a little more value given their premovemet boost and access to allow those 1 speed moves
  • Could also lead to some shenanigans with Moff Jerjerrod allowing a system phase boost and a reveal bombing striker depending on the order those things happen?

• Not Good.
  • See also, bad.

Missiles

• Pretty sure this is my preferred missile for Vader out the gate.
  • I want to use this almost entirely based on fun factor alone.
  • Vader is uniquely capable of making it work at Init 6, with Supernatural, and a couple ways to get full mods.
  • Bullseye is difficult against a small base but not so bad with practice and makes your opponent play around you at times.
  • Range 1-2 goes a very long way, and bullseye gets a little easier the closer you get to your opponents ships.

• I think this would be my second choice after proton rockets.
  • 4 dice, range 2-3, 2 charges, get to keep the lock.
  • I imagine there a lot of situations where the opponent would just take the damage.
  • The cool thematic thing is to not use this as an initial alpha strike.
  • Maybe the correct thing to do is to save the missile for when the ships shields are down and its on its last couple hull.
  • Make that choice a choice basically.

• So force users and cluster missiles are a reasonable match I guess
  • The thought of spending 2 force charges though and having to run away for a couple turns doesn't seem worth it.
  • Iden Versio will just result in one shot being ignored anyway
  • Points seem better used somewhere else

• I think this and the next one are close to rather just have a bid and initiative 6 territory.
  • 2.0 Crits are cool but this just doesnt seem worth the points

• Might be a nice way to force Han to have to leave the safety of the Asteroid field.
  • Its neat but something I will most likely ignore for the most part.

Modifications

• Only picture I could find but Afterburners would be my first choice mod if its possible to use with Vader
  • Have you ever wanted to do a talon/k turn and still be able to boost?
  • I can see myself using this occasionally with Vader's 3 bank and a barrel roll after an initial engagement at Range 3
  • Also of course as a way to just get out of range fora turn or two and come back with full force
  • The theme on this one is cool.

• If both of these are cheap enough I might consider them but not to sound like a broken record I think the bid is worth more.
• Maybe stealth device? I just can't imagine wanting to use anything besides Afterburners with this upgrade slot but maybe ill change my mind the first time Vader is destroyed in 1 round
• Its possible that two modifications will be allowed based on threat cards. I think in that case I would consider running one of these plus afterburners.

System Upgrades

• FCS seems extremely good in 2.0
  • There is no bullseye restriction like Predator
  • Vader doesnt want to spend his target lock anyway
  • I see it as just another way to save tokens and force charges for defense basically

• How does this work with Supernatural?
  • I assume this lets you Barrel Roll before activating and then focus with sensors before revealing your dial?
  • Neat but since force charges already allow Vader to deal with stress or blocks in some way im not sure this will ever replace FCS
  • Turns off Vaders Pilot Ability so this is probably on the no fly list

• I wont be using it but I did just want to pause on this one to mention that the additional wording on this is nice.

Questions:

• Any other Upgrades to consider for Vader?
• Without points or upgrade slots...what do you think the ideal Vader will look like?
• How could he ever be better than a couple named Tie Fighters leading a swarm?
• Would you consider Vader a High Skill ship in 2nd Edition or Easy Mode?
• In the Luke vs Vader one on one matchup does Vader just always win?
• Are there any Support Crew that seem like obvious options to pair with Vader?
• Does X-Wing 2.0 also come with a 2nd Edition of the Forums?

I don't have anything to add but I do want to say that Supernatural Reflexes and Advanced Sensors do not interact.

Supernatural Reflexes happens before you activate, so you are not limited by Advanced Sensors because it hasn't happened yet.

But I have to agree that this probably isn't the best option for Vader.

However, I believe you could Boost or BR with Supernatural Reflexes, trigger Vader, then get your Advanced Sensors action all in before bumping... so maybe that's not terrible.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

STAR WARS IMPERIAL TACTICS: THE FORCE AWAKENS

Its time to begin the journey again!

Lets start with Vader.

Questions:

• Any other Upgrades to consider for Vader?
• Without points or upgrade slots...what do you think the ideal Vader will look like?
• How could he ever be better than a couple named Tie Fighters leading a swarm?
• Would you consider Vader a High Skill ship in 2nd Edition or Easy Mode?
• In the Luke vs Vader one on one matchup does Vader just always win?
• Are there any Support Crew that seem like obvious options to pair with Vader?

Does X-Wing 2.0 also come with a 2nd Edition of the Forums?

Answers:

• I hope Vader is 68 points or cheaper. I never liked paying for Engine Upgrade on Vader, I thought it made him too many points when I wanted more quality wingmen alongside. The Force upgrade costings could be hefty as well.
• He's better because he's Vader: he's ace-y, he's iconic; whyever else does anyone take anything more exciting than boring ol' TIE's? Seriously though, this is pretty much all I've got. ?
• I think he'll be pretty high skill. You need to spend Force in moderation with him; if he does 4 actions a turn, he'll take a lot of heat during Combat or hit like a wet noodle. I forsee a lot of people running in with Vader, having a blast doing multiple actions, then getting terrible dice. Players' success will be defined, IMO, by their (in)ability to manage Force wisely in the thick of things.
• Luke is going to be formidable. The issue will be his wingmen, I think. One-on-one, I think Vader will usually outfly Luke, but needs to spend Force more wisely. Luke can plan on getting shot at every turn and have Force to modify dice every turn. Imperial players will also need to look sharp against those S-foils opening and closing since X-Wings could scramble out with that Boost. Luke's probably the best defensive ship in the game and Vader is not the best offensive ship in the game. Its a toss-up for me. I'm excited to see it on the table.
• Tarkin should pair well. He can give Vader his Lock from anywhere on the board, which is sweet. Running the Lambda with Krennic, Tarkin, and ST-321 could get pretty crazy. Actually, I'm surprised at how much Tarkin and Krennic synergize... Ciena Ree could prove interesting with Vader as well, but probably more interesting with the Inquisitor, 7th Sis, Soontir Fel, and the like.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Questions:

• Any other Upgrades to consider for Vader?
• Without points or upgrade slots...what do you think the ideal Vader will look like?
• How could he ever be better than a couple named Tie Fighters leading a swarm?
• Would you consider Vader a High Skill ship in 2nd Edition or Easy Mode?
• In the Luke vs Vader one on one matchup does Vader just always win?
• Are there any Support Crew that seem like obvious options to pair with Vader?

Does X-Wing 2.0 also come with a 2nd Edition of the Forums?

Quite the contrary.

If kitted out right, Luke can outfly Vader.

Consider this:

Supernatural reflexes, Closed S-foils, protontorps (they don't care about the s-foils), the dial upgrading droid:

You can do 3 actions per turn, get a free defensive fo[r]cus on every incoming, and you can throw 4 dice attacks, with more health.

Or you can pick R2D2, in which case you just don't go and fight Vader, because you can escape him and regenerate, go for time, thanks to your infinite boost.


People say that closed S-foils are bad, but I don't think so. They allow torps to be used, and they give you linked actions and native boost.

Vader CAN kill Luke, but I think the matchup is favored by Luke, depending on the way they are kitted out.

53 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Quite the contrary.

If kitted out right, Luke can outfly Vader.

Consider this:

Supernatural reflexes, Closed S-foils, protontorps (they don't care about the s-foils), the dial upgrading droid:

You can do 3 actions per turn, get a free defensive fo[r]cus on every incoming, and you can throw 4 dice attacks, with more health.

Or you can pick R2D2, in which case you just don't go and fight Vader, because you can escape him and regenerate, go for time, thanks to your infinite boost.


People say that closed S-foils are bad, but I don't think so. They allow torps to be used, and they give you linked actions and native boost.

Vader CAN kill Luke, but I think the matchup is favored by Luke, depending on the way they are kitted out.

So I proxy a lot of 2.0, and pretty much all of this isn't true. Let's break this down.

1. S foils is rarely in the closed position because the downside of -1 red dice is huge. Your argument of it letting you fire torps isn't good either, because honestly you are bad if you don't range band jump the torp.

2. R2-D2. The cost of gaining a disarm token and max 3 charges means Luke can't run away forever. I don't know where you got that idea from but it's just straight up wrong. Also, Luke only has 1 more health base, and Vader's extra green die more than makes up for that over the course of the game.

3. Vader's higher Initiative and ATC are immense. I can't tell you how many times Vader will land impactful crits before Luke fires, and higher initative means I'm dictating the round more because Vader makes all his decisions after Luke.

4. The free defensive focus. The force is basically just a pile of calculate tokens on force users, and Luke's pilot ability means that hes basically never going to run out. But blanks on green dice are permanent, and he's only on a 2 green dice ship. Vader will often get a hit and a crit through. Also, Vader has 3 force which means he still has plenty of focus mods too.

From all of my games, Vader has been a monster in a one on one. His dice have plenty of mods making him durable and his damage is incredibly consistent. It can swing games super hard because the crits in this upcoming edition are very punishing. I've delt 5 damage to a Boba in just one round of fire from Vader, because crits are dumb. I'd bet on Vader one on one vs any ship except probably a tie defender.

1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:

So I proxy a lot of 2.0, and pretty much all of this isn't true. Let's break this down.

1. S foils is rarely in the closed position because the downside of -1 red dice is huge. Your argument of it letting you fire torps isn't good either, because honestly you are bad if you don't range band jump the torp.

Skill is only important when you have a difference in the skill level. Another way to say the same argument would be: "... you are bad if you can't get the enemy within the range band to fire the torp"

1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:

2. R2-D2. The cost of gaining a disarm token and max 3 charges means Luke can't run away forever. I don't know where you got that idea from but it's just straight up wrong. Also, Luke only has 1 more health base, and Vader's extra green die more than makes up for that over the course of the game.

You can run away infinitely because you can boost infinitely. R2-D2 is for those times when you can't exactly get out of range. 3 extra health is still 3 extra health. I've played against regen poe enough, that can be enough many times. But it doesn't matter, because you can literally fly faster than Vader. He CANNOT catch up to you if you decide to run. 4 speed + boost is better than 5 speed. He can boost twice in the whole game. R2 is there for those two times.

1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:

3. Vader's higher Initiative and ATC are immense. I can't tell you how many times Vader will land impactful crits before Luke fires, and higher initative means I'm dictating the round more because Vader makes all his decisions after Luke.

Crits cannot melt steel beams. (Or shields for that matter).

1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:

4. The free defensive focus. The force is basically just a pile of calculate tokens on force users, and Luke's pilot ability means that hes basically never going to run out. But blanks on green dice are permanent, and he's only on a 2 green dice ship. Vader will often get a hit and a crit through. Also, Vader has 3 force which means he still has plenty of focus mods too.

You are right. Vader requires more skill and thought, because he can run out of tokens, and 2 dice are not everything... But Luke can still keep the distance, if he so chooses.

1 hour ago, SnooSnarry said:

From all of my games, Vader has been a monster in a one on one. His dice have plenty of mods making him durable and his damage is incredibly consistent. It can swing games super hard because the crits in this upcoming edition are very punishing. I've delt 5 damage to a Boba in just one round of fire from Vader, because crits are dumb. I'd bet on Vader one on one vs any ship except probably a tie defender.

Given that he was mentioned as one of the most expensive pilots, I'd expect that.

Look, I'm not saying Vader will be useless, or even just okay. He will be great. Which is awesome.

BUT

Vader was engineered very carefully*, so you cannot exploit him. He has clear limitations that he cannot overcome, in any way.

However, Luke seems to be designed with far less care in this regard... but who is surprised at this point?

(Look at the Advanced Sensors change during 2.0 for proof)

@Commander Kaine very nice write up, I know you focus on the Imperial aspect but the outline was well done. Doing this with all the Force Users (Luke, Grand Inquistor, Asajj, Kanan etc. ) would be a great guide for the forum ... great job with this though very informative.

6 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

@Commander Kaine very nice write up, I know you focus on the Imperial aspect but the outline was well done. Doing this with all the Force Users (Luke, Grand Inquistor, Asajj, Kanan etc. ) would be a great guide for the forum ... great job with this though very informative.

Darth Vader was a great man. I'm excited to play Vader, too.

8 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Look, I'm not saying Vader will be useless, or even just okay. He will be great. Which is awesome.

I agree a kitted out Luke can certainly give Vader a run for his money, but I feel that Vader is better overall.

Which is, as you said, not surprising given that it's the Dark Lord Of The Freaking Sith, and the most expensive pre-built threat card we've yet seen*.

• Closed S-foils do let you boost, and still fire torpedoes.
  • Torpedoes do have issues, though, as they have:
    • A charge limit
      • 2 shots
    • A range limit
      • Range 1 blind spot isn't something you get automatically but when presented with a supernatural reflexes/afterburners Vader, nor is it something you can discount
    • A need for a target lock
      • An X-wing has a boost/link/focus. It doesn't have a boost/link/target lock, and firing a torpedo unmodified without spending your lock is worse than a focused 3-dice standard attack, so you don't want to retain your lock.
      • Instinctive Aim can deal with this problem handily, but you are then using your force to fire off the torp and still need to spend your focus token on the attack to get a modified attack, plus you're spending points on a two-use attack (I realise it's still better than spending points on deadeye for a 1-use attack as per 1.0), and not getting Supernatural Reflexes, which shoots a hole in your ability to hang onto Vader's coat-tails
      • Supernatural reflex force-boost and target lock can work.
• Regen does give you 3 extra shields
  • R2-D2 does leave you unable to attack whilst recovering shields (although, if you're pointed the other way, that's not really an issue)
  • You can just run the heck away, if you've already run the TIE/x1 out of afterburner charges, and if Vader isn't prepared to burn a shield to keep on your backside with Supernatural Reflexes (although tempting him to do so isn't a totally awful idea if you're confident the inevitable crit will splash on shields....)
  • If you want to boost/link/focus, without Supernatural Reflexes, that's a red linked action, meaning you're stuck on slow speed the following turn.
  • It does, obviously, mean a disarm token. So whilst you can try and run, if Vader does have a shot you're just going to have to take your licks and hope.
  • Speed 4 + Boost is nice, but it is not quite enough to be confident of extending from a close-range engagement to a 'safe' distance in one go. Whilst the Quick Build Vader card doesn't pack ordnance, there's a pretty good chance that the version people start bringing to events will be packing one of the ordnance types. Concussion Missiles have more ammo than Proton Torpedoes, after all.
  • If Luke extends the range to regenerate shields, Vader can slow roll in pursuit, recovering and not spending force tokens. Giving him the chance to build back up to 3 stockpiled force tokens that he can dump in one go in the turn you re-engage can make for a very bad day, and unlike R2-D2, he can keep doing that in an extended duel.

8 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

However, Luke seems to be designed with far less care in this regard... but who is surprised at this point?

I would disagree; Luke has his limitations - primarily the fact that however easily he recovers force tokens, he's capped at one. Both will be all about managing their limited resources. Luke doesn't have Force tokens as a limited resource - because you can never be 'caught short' being attacked without one, but you still only get one token to spend on 'anything else'. Torpedoes run out, and R2-D2's charges run out, and a defensive-focus-agility 2 isn't......that great? Agility 2 with a force token is only a hair better than agility 3 with nothing.

It's a great ability against a swarm of 2-dice attack ships, and if people start taking TIE fighter swarms again, I suspect they'll remember why they hated Luke, but the fact that he can't use R2-D2 whilst slow-rolling through combat anymore (due to the disarm token) and that he can only use him 3 times is a huge deal, especially since R2-D2 got (proportionately) more expensive (10 points on the app screenshot).

8 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

Doing this with all the Force Users (Luke, Grand Inquistor, Asajj, Kanan etc. ) would be a great guide for the forum ... great job with this though very informative.

The Dark Jedi:

• Darth Vader
  • @Boom Owl covered it as well as you can want, frankly. The only other thing to note is his ability to spam multiple force tokens into free actions in one go; getting supernatural reflexes/vader/action/vader/action and then talon roll/afterburners/boost may use up most of your tokens in one go but that turn is terrifying as vader goes from a head-on-pass to a double-modified proton rocket shot into your backside in one turn.....
• The Grand Inquisitor
  • As good as he always was. Being able to take away range 1 bonuses instead makes him a lovely knife fighter, which is a nice alternative to the sniper he usually acts as.
  • With both Boost and Barrel Roll, supernatural reflexes is a nasty trick. The ability to combine actual range control with range bonus control is powerful
  • Boost/link/focus and barrel roll/link focus means that unlike vader, he doesn't NEED supernatural reflexes or afterburners to reposition. On the other hand, a shield or hull upgrade would be welcome as...you know....TIE/v1 fighters are made of eggshell.
• Seventh Sister
  • Initiative 4 means sense might be worth it; as it's a cost-free force ability for a knife-fighter (she needs 2 force tokens for shooting people and doesn't want to 'waste' them on anything else)
• 'Generic' Inquisitors
  • As lower initiative pilots, sense becomes more useful.
  • Instinctive aim + missiles is a nice option, meaning you don't need to limit yourself to stuff like barrage rockets
• Darth Vader (Crew)
  • +1 force is nice for anyone.
  • His ability lets him force someone in arc in range 2 to burn a green token or suffer 1 damage. Nice for stripping tokens, brutal for punishing anyone who doesn't have a green token in the first place (if they've pulled a red move, or a target lock, or are jammed)
  • Because it's a non-specific 'firing arc', it can work out of a turret, so Vader still works fine on a decimator.
  • He doesn't damage his ride anymore, making him a great choice for a TIE phantom, which then rack up a force token and an evade token without giving up its action.
  • Because he represents extra token removal and/or punishes you if you have no token left to remove, I suspect his best use is on a Reaper with that lovely white jam action.
• Seventh Sister (Crew)
  • +1 force is nice for anyone.
  • Turn a stress token on a range 1 enemy ship to a tractor or jam token.
  • Jam...it depends. If the target is stressed from a red move, debris, or similar, it's largely irrelevant because they're probably not getting a token anyway. But it does mean that linked actions are easy to punish - boost/link/focus? Spend your force token, and the stress from the red focus becomes a jam, which eats the focus.
  • Tractor is very situation-specific, but has the potential to be really annoying; if someone lands a red move nearby, flinging them off-course could be very annoying. Of course, eating their stress has the consequence of them getting an action, but since you've repositioned them, hopefully that means they no longer have a shot.
  • For range 1 shenanigans, Oicunn (who can shoot up range 0 targets) might appreciate it, as he's still a massive wrecking ball, and the alternate option of a force token to modify dice might also suit a pilot who's likely to lose a lot of actions to collisions. I suspect she's probably cheaper than Vader as she looks less capable on paper.
• The Grand Inquisitor (Crew)
  • +1 force is nice for anyone.
  • When a ship within range 1-2 reveals its dial, get a (red) free action.
  • To get the best bang for your buck on this ability, you probably want to be spending it on a repositioning action - which means a TIE phantom.
• Palpatine
  • 1 force a turn, for whoever wants it.
  • He's a shadow of his former "Emperor Palpatine Says This Is A Critical" self, but hopefully that means he's cheaper.
  • He remains fundamentally the same - keep him at the back, flinging unlimited range dice modification at whoever wants it
  • He remains 2 crew slots, so decimator, reaper or lambda. I would probably take the lambda on cost grounds, especially paired with Captain Kagi - dragging all the enemy target locks out of useful range could really, really annoy people.

* Apparently Darth Vader is highly threatening. Who knew?

14 hours ago, SnooSnarry said:

From all of my games, Vader has been a monster in a one on one. His dice have plenty of mods making him durable and his damage is incredibly consistent.

This has been my experience so far as well. It seems really important to save those force charges and focus tokens for defense though otherwise he goes from "durable" to gone real quick.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

This has been my experience so far as well. It seems really important to save those force charges and focus tokens for defense though otherwise he goes from "durable" to gone real quick.

I think the only reason the X/1 doesn’t have the Evade in 2.0 is because of Vader. How has the lack of boost been? Has Supernatural and Afterburners been good enough?

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I agree a kitted out Luke can certainly give Vader a run for his money, but I feel that Vader is better overall.

Which is, as you said, not surprising given that it's the Dark Lord Of The Freaking Sith, and the most expensive pre-built threat card we've yet seen*.

• Closed S-foils do let you boost, and still fire torpedoes.
  • Torpedoes do have issues, though, as they have:
    • A charge limit
      • 2 shots
    • A range limit
      • Range 1 blind spot isn't something you get automatically but when presented with a supernatural reflexes/afterburners Vader, nor is it something you can discount
    • A need for a target lock
      • An X-wing has a boost/link/focus. It doesn't have a boost/link/target lock, and firing a torpedo unmodified without spending your lock is worse than a focused 3-dice standard attack, so you don't want to retain your lock.
      • Instinctive Aim can deal with this problem handily, but you are then using your force to fire off the torp and still need to spend your focus token on the attack to get a modified attack, plus you're spending points on a two-use attack (I realise it's still better than spending points on deadeye for a 1-use attack as per 1.0), and not getting Supernatural Reflexes, which shoots a hole in your ability to hang onto Vader's coat-tails
      • Supernatural reflex force-boost and target lock can work.
• Regen does give you 3 extra shields
  • R2-D2 does leave you unable to attack whilst recovering shields (although, if you're pointed the other way, that's not really an issue)
  • You can just run the heck away, if you've already run the TIE/x1 out of afterburner charges, and if Vader isn't prepared to burn a shield to keep on your backside with Supernatural Reflexes (although tempting him to do so isn't a totally awful idea if you're confident the inevitable crit will splash on shields....)
  • If you want to boost/link/focus, without Supernatural Reflexes, that's a red linked action, meaning you're stuck on slow speed the following turn.
  • It does, obviously, mean a disarm token. So whilst you can try and run, if Vader does have a shot you're just going to have to take your licks and hope.
  • Speed 4 + Boost is nice, but it is not quite enough to be confident of extending from a close-range engagement to a 'safe' distance in one go. Whilst the Quick Build Vader card doesn't pack ordnance, there's a pretty good chance that the version people start bringing to events will be packing one of the ordnance types. Concussion Missiles have more ammo than Proton Torpedoes, after all.
  • If Luke extends the range to regenerate shields, Vader can slow roll in pursuit, recovering and not spending force tokens. Giving him the chance to build back up to 3 stockpiled force tokens that he can dump in one go in the turn you re-engage can make for a very bad day, and unlike R2-D2, he can keep doing that in an extended duel.

I would disagree; Luke has his limitations - primarily the fact that however easily he recovers force tokens, he's capped at one. Both will be all about managing their limited resources. Luke doesn't have Force tokens as a limited resource - because you can never be 'caught short' being attacked without one, but you still only get one token to spend on 'anything else'. Torpedoes run out, and R2-D2's charges run out, and a defensive-focus-agility 2 isn't......that great? Agility 2 with a force token is only a hair better than agility 3 with nothing.

It's a great ability against a swarm of 2-dice attack ships, and if people start taking TIE fighter swarms again, I suspect they'll remember why they hated Luke, but the fact that he can't use R2-D2 whilst slow-rolling through combat anymore (due to the disarm token) and that he can only use him 3 times is a huge deal, especially since R2-D2 got (proportionately) more expensive (10 points on the app screenshot).

1. Supernatural reflexes, boost, move, lock. Done.

2. Conc missiles are worse than Vader's basic attack, if he has a lock. It's just wasted points.

3. IF vader is recovering force tokens, he is not using SR to give him boost at the cost of shields. He can boost twice in the game with AB, it is not worth it to burn them while chasing a ship with a native boost. However, Luke can just do boost + 4 forward, barrel roll/focus any time. Vader can't catch up.

4. Two. He is capped at two. Plus, he gets tokens if he is attacked.. Even if the attack rolls blanks, or he rolls natural evades. It is entirely feasible that he can just start a turn at 2 tokens, when he was running dry the previous turn.

ALSO

If simultaneous effects are handled the same way...

You can trigger Supernatural reflexes to BOOST, then open S-foils, basically giving Luke a boost, without any drawbacks.

23 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

ALSO

If simultaneous effects are handled the same way...

You can trigger Supernatural reflexes to BOOST, then open S-foils, basically giving Luke a boost, without any drawbacks.

Until the next turn, where you have your foils open and want to boost again

3 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

I think the only reason the X/1 doesn’t have the Evade in 2.0 is because of Vader. How has the lack of boost been? Has Supernatural and Afterburners been good enough?

I also am curious about this. I've played some on FlyCasual, but the HotAC AI is kinda... dumb...

5 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Until the next turn, where you have your foils open and want to boost again

I'd take that over using boost only 2 times in a game.

Its confirmed vader can take two mods right?

Unless threat cards don't care about rules, yes

2 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I'd take that over using boost only 2 times in a game.

Shields and hull are merely a resource to be fed to engines!

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Shields and hull are merely a resource to be fed to engines!

Yaay. Cool. We got the subpar option, again! We are so badass, because we can win, despite being the underdog.

oh wait... Isn't that supposed to be the rebel flavor?

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yaay. Cool. We got the subpar option, again! We are so badass, because we can win, despite being the underdog.

oh wait... Isn't that supposed to be the rebel flavor?

Get that rebel bias bull out of my thread please.

This is forums 2.0

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Get that rebel bias bull out of my thread please.

This is forums 2.0

Gladly. When FFG takes it out from the game.

32 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Gladly. When FFG takes it out from the game.

Have you looked at the Imperial conversion kit?

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

If simultaneous effects are handled the same way...

You can trigger Supernatural reflexes to BOOST, then open S-foils, basically giving Luke a boost, without any drawbacks.

Yes, if you had your s-foils closed the previous turn.

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Conc missiles are worse than Vader's basic attack, if he has a lock. It's just wasted points.

You do ignore the range 3 defence bonus, but you're correct - my apologies, I forgot they dropped to a 3-dice volley (they're a better call for a bomber or advanced prototype). Homing or Ion missiles are still a good option, though.

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Plus, he gets tokens if he is attacked.. Even if the attack rolls blanks, or he rolls natural evades. It is entirely feasible that he can just start a turn at 2 tokens, when he was running dry the previous turn.

Apologies. For some reason I thought he was only force 1. To be fair, with the Inquisitors being 2, it makes sense.

I am going to be interested to see how much he actually costs.

Three threat implies a cost of 72 points (36 in 'old money'), but with the app screenshot above, it looks like proton torpedoes have stayed the same price and R2-D2 has gotten proportionately more expensive.

I suspect you're right that S-foils will be free as they don't really give you anything, just let you trade barrel roll for boost (with at least one turn of reduced gunfire whatever timing tricks you play).

That leaves a cost of 54 points (~ 27 points) for Luke plus totally-not-deadeye (which might well be free as, let's be fair, it's a pretty guff ability since it eats the force token and still expects a focus token to modify the shot, plus it's only useful if you've spent further points on torpedoes or missiles)

I guess that Luke's current cost of 26 points with Renegade Refit isn't that unreasonable, but it should be noted that that explicitely takes torpedoes off him as an option. R2-D2 has gotten distinctly worse (more because he shuts down your guns than because he has a 'use limit'), but an effective 27 1.0 points for 2.0 luke does seem a bit cheap given that his ability has gotten better.

11 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Its confirmed vader can take two mods right?

11 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Unless threat cards don't care about rules, yes

For that matter, Jek has two modifications equipped in the cards above, too; hull and afterburners.

15 hours ago, Tbetts94 said:

I think the only reason the X/1 doesn’t have the Evade in 2.0 is because of Vader. How has the lack of boost been? Has Supernatural and Afterburners been good enough?

I'd agree. Evade is a nice option to have, but it really comes into its own if you can get focus and evade; Vader is the only TIE/x1 pilot who can (could!) do that. 90% of the time, with only 1 action, either you're focusing or you're setting up your initial target lock; it's only if you've got a damaged advanced that's desperately running away that you might be bothered to evade.

.....Actually, I take that back. It's a pretty safe assumption that the Storm Squadron Ace now has a talent upgrade. in which case, Advanced Targeting Computer, Fire Control System and Juke would be a very snazzy combination if the evade action was still an option.