3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I would buy the case against trance if his reason to hammer would have been different.

I mean, let's say he is scum. He openly supported Jabba's reasoning. Maybe he didn't think things would turn against his mate but when it comes to hammer time he did his job. Town cred? Maybe but why not build some better reasoning knowing he would flip scum. I mean, I was like 100% sure Jabba was thanks to Pod win-**** stuff. It seems like he really didn't know what Jabba was going to flip to.

I don't mean to put a scum case on trance just make sure we're all watching him, as I think if he is someone who isn't town, imo i reckon he could have experience which could hurt.. and the fact even though he's new he still hasn't added very much despite seeming to have at least some understanding of the game..

4 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

I don't mean to put a scum case on trance just make sure we're all watching him, as I think if he is someone who isn't town, imo i reckon he could have experience which could hurt.. and the fact even though he's new he still hasn't added very much despite seeming to have at least some understanding of the game..

You should be watching me but not voting me. Mafia/Scum purposefully left me alive so they could build a case against me mostly drawn from my own reasoning earlier which is essentially nothing to add and basically observing. I cannot say for sure who to throw suspicion on but I highly recommend everyone to take notice of who is putting suspicion on me. They are most likely mafia/scum who agreed to let me live so they could build an easy case against me.

2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I didn't say it was the most clever thing. I just noticed that you didn't bother to read his post properly.

The easier way to check if there is a SK or if it was a vigilante is, definitely, to wait for tonight's kills. Even if they skip a kill to confuse us it is good for us.

I read his post, and understand the desire to ascertain which setup we are in. My issue was that he phrased it 'In the event Caldias or BrobaFett was killed by a Vigilante, it would be best for that Vigilante to come forward so we can lynch you in order to prove your claim and gain more data.'

Now, as I said, I understand the desire to confirm roles and get data. But given that he stated that he wants the vigilante to reveal himself so we can lynch him, anybody who claims vig is dead meat. So anybody doing so is likely town. Lynching a likely town to see what setup we have seems silly, since it most likely gives the scum another townie lynch (after all, what scum will step forward as vig knowing that the town intends to hammer him?) So if a vig steps forward, it only helps scum. They can either sit back and have town lynch a townie, or shoot him at night. Either way, they have a confessed/confirmed townie, which as I said is dangerous to them, and thus target #1.

And what do we get out of it? At the cost of a dead vig and a night kill we get to narrow down the potential setup. What are the number of setups knowing whether a vig exists or not results in? Unless the number is 1, is it worth 2 dead townies (the vig and the night kill)? I do not think so, and therefore think that LTD's suggestion is detrimental to town. It's immediate result is to speed up the demise of town, giving us less time to hunt scum.

Let me emphasise: I do NOT think we have a vigilante. I think we have a serial killer.

For EbonHawk to suggest I haven’t said anything in 72 hours is foolish and inaccurate.

I have made my case against Lord Preyer. I have nothing else to add.

18 minutes ago, Tranceform said:

You should be watching me but not voting me. Mafia/Scum purposefully left me alive so they could build a case against me mostly drawn from my own reasoning earlier which is essentially nothing to add and basically observing. I cannot say for sure who to throw suspicion on but I highly recommend everyone to take notice of who is putting suspicion on me. They are most likely mafia/scum who agreed to let me live so they could build an easy case against me.

Well, I'm town as **** and I'm gladly making the case against you.

- Doesn't post very much D1. Quotes verified scum as his reasoning to vote. Then hammers said scum with no real reasoning other than that we need a hammer. (Again, yes we needed a hammer, but this totally could have been town cred hammering)

Hasn't posted at all but makes the case that scum left him alive so that they could build a case against him. (I think I'm really the only one pushing on him. Does he have any votes?) Notice how generic he is. At least LP points to me specifically.

Am I certain? No. But it is enough for me actually right now with a day left:

##vote Tranceform

I also question:

Lord Preyer for his weird logic of the Cal kill pointing towards me.

Vis for being non-existent and giving a really lukewarm read list. I mean it is super generic and fishy.

On 7/18/2018 at 1:07 PM, Tranceform said:

#role confirmed

On 7/19/2018 at 6:39 AM, Tranceform said:

I'm assuming you are referring to me when you say Trances but what do you mean by ##roleconfirm?

On 7/20/2018 at 7:25 AM, Tranceform said:

Nothing to share unfortunately, I am just observing the arguments used so far. I would vote for Pod following the logic of:

On 7/20/2018 at 10:20 AM, Tranceform said:

##vote Jabbawookie. Reason: it would be to scum’s advantage and town’s disavantage if no one is lynched on first day.

30 minutes ago, Tranceform said:

You should be watching me but not voting me. Mafia/Scum purposefully left me alive so they could build a case against me mostly drawn from my own reasoning earlier which is essentially nothing to add and basically observing. I cannot say for sure who to throw suspicion on but I highly recommend everyone to take notice of who is putting suspicion on me. They are most likely mafia/scum who agreed to let me live so they could build an easy case against me.

The ENTIRETY of Tranceform's game so far.

3 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Not an awful lot from Ltd in over 72 hours... Anything to say? @LTD

I am not clearing LTD here; a lot of your arguments against him (claim, and asking for a vig reveal) are valid. However, he has definitely contributed to this game.

I made no claim.

I do not believe there is a Vigilante - I’m saying that if a Vig killed night one they are unhelpful.

I believe there is a serial killer.

I think Lord Preyer is mafia for the reasons outlined in my vote post.

1 hour ago, LTD said:

I made no claim.

Okay - breadcrumb/not breadcrumb

@Madaghmirecan we get the latest vote count, please?

2 hours ago, Tranceform said:

You should be watching me but not voting me. Mafia/Scum purposefully left me alive so they could build a case against me mostly drawn from my own reasoning earlier which is essentially nothing to add and basically observing. I cannot say for sure who to throw suspicion on but I highly recommend everyone to take notice of who is putting suspicion on me. They are most likely mafia/scum who agreed to let me live so they could build an easy case against me.

I disagree,

There's no easy case against you, you're quiet, but you voted a scum.

You need to come up with some Opinions and quickly, Show some willing and make some reads.

If your Town your gonna get steamrollered for offering us nothing. If your scum your gonna get steamrollered for giving us nothing.

Latest count;

@Tranceform- (2) Podracer, Cninja

@LTD- (2) Gnips, Lord Preyer

@ebon hawk-(1) Ovi

@Lord Preyer-(1) LTD

6 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Well, I'm town as **** and I'm gladly making the case against you.

Claims that are brought without evidence can be disregarded without evidence. What proof do you have that you are town?

6 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Quotes verified scum as his reasoning to vote

See above. What makes him a verified scum? Unless I missed some hard evidence pointing to said quotee as a scum, this is essentially a baseless claim.

6 hours ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Notice how generic he is

Thanks for noticing but generic play doesn't essentially equate to suspicious play. This is my first time playing this game so I don't know what style/strategies to go with yet. I don't have a developed play style like some of the veteran players here. Unless you're making the assumption that everyone goes into a game with a specific play style in mind.

Outside of the pushes on you, any others catch your eye?

@Tranceform

@Podracer nope. And I would not change my vote to @CaribbeanNinja either. While I don't like him throwing suspicion on me, it was expected that someone would based on the way I have been playing. Accusing someone to be scum just because they accuse you is not sufficient unfortunately. I also lack any hard evidence against him at this time. I will stay with my vote for now against you unless you would like to make a case for yourself.

3 minutes ago, Tranceform said:

@Podracer nope. And I would not change my vote to @CaribbeanNinja either. While I don't like him throwing suspicion on me, it was expected that someone would based on the way I have been playing. Accusing someone to be scum just because they accuse you is not sufficient unfortunately. I also lack any hard evidence against him at this time. I will stay with my vote for now against you unless you would like to make a case for yourself.

Did I miss a vote somewhere?

24 minutes ago, Tranceform said:

@Podracer nope. And I would not change my vote to @CaribbeanNinja either. While I don't like him throwing suspicion on me, it was expected that someone would based on the way I have been playing. Accusing someone to be scum just because they accuse you is not sufficient unfortunately. I also lack any hard evidence against him at this time. I will stay with my vote for now against you unless you would like to make a case for yourself.

You don't have any hard evidence on me.

I doubt anyone has hard evidence against anyone - unless we rolled CCC and there's another cop - which seems unlikely.

20 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Sorry folks, I had a busy morning.

I agree that Ebon's read of Preyer is plausible, but think it is a bit unlikely. Still, I shall keep an eye on them both.

LTD, however, is far more suspicious. Wanting to lynch a claimed townie in order to confirm his role? Really? Why not just make him promise not to use his role, and treat him as vanilla (if you are so eager to rid the game of his ability)? Why do the scum a favor and lynch another townie? I don't like it, so I shall

##vote @LTD

as having the most suspicious and detrimental to town proposition yet.

I shall give the thread a reread and get back to you all if something catches my eye.

I will explain myself again. That's stupid. As stupid as suggesting to lynch him (maybe even more). 1st with that you cannot check if there is a SK or not cause he doesn't flip what is LTD's point (even when I don't care his worries about if there is or not a SK). 2nd it put a target to kill/ignore depending on if he is one-shot or not. I mean, I agree with you about lynching the vigilante would be a bad move but this to me seems more like "let's say whatever to cast suspicious on him" than a strong counteragument, at least IMHO. And about the case, I would agree that a detrimental proposition like that is bad and suspicious, but you, as I said, you did the same in that exact post.

12 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I read his post, and understand the desire to ascertain which setup we are in. My issue was that he phrased it 'In the event Caldias or BrobaFett was killed by a Vigilante, it would be best for that Vigilante to come forward so we can lynch you in order to prove your claim and gain more data.'

Now, as I said, I understand the desire to confirm roles and get data. But given that he stated that he wants the vigilante to reveal himself so we can lynch him, anybody who claims vig is dead meat. So anybody doing so is likely town. Lynching a likely town to see what setup we have seems silly, since it most likely gives the scum another townie lynch (after all, what scum will step forward as vig knowing that the town intends to hammer him?) So if a vig steps forward, it only helps scum. They can either sit back and have town lynch a townie, or shoot him at night. Either way, they have a confessed/confirmed townie, which as I said is dangerous to them, and thus target #1.

And what do we get out of it? At the cost of a dead vig and a night kill we get to narrow down the potential setup. What are the number of setups knowing whether a vig exists or not results in? Unless the number is 1, is it worth 2 dead townies (the vig and the night kill)? I do not think so, and therefore think that LTD's suggestion is detrimental to town. It's immediate result is to speed up the demise of town, giving us less time to hunt scum.

Also here you ackowledge what I already notice and decide to keep to myself. A SK cannot claim it without putting his throat up to town and scum as well. A scum cannot claim it without the same risk (SK probably would not care about him but who knows). A town could "sacrifice" himself if he would agree with the need to know if it is a SK or not. So it seems a decent way to me to "clean" someone. Also to see who are the quickest jumpers on the claimed vigilante and go after them.

All that said.

1. It doesn't clean LTD. I dunno if he suggested that as a trap or honesty believing it was the best for town or cause he is scum.

2. It doesn't clean you. It should do as scum/mafia would like the claim but as I said I didn't like your post.

3. It put Ebon on my town radar as he was more clear, rational and constructive in his post:

##unvote Ebon

Rereading last pages again.

25 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I will explain myself again. That's stupid. As stupid as suggesting to lynch him (maybe even more). 1st with that you cannot check if there is a SK or not

Just to be clear, I am not advocating that, hence the bit in parentheses. I was merely pointing out an alternative way of ridding the game of the vig's ability, without actually taking a town life, since I interpreted LTD's post as partially desiring that in order to avoid further town-killing-town nightkills.

For my own part, I am not convinced about LTD's guilt, but he is the most suspicious to me so far due to his suggestion and how he approached it. If it was a trap, he sprung it with the lynch suggestion before anybody could think of claiming, so he ruined the chance to catch anything but town. I myself do not think discerning the setup is worth even risking a town life, let alone actually spending one, as if we continue to hunt suspicious people and the game continues, we will know that there are more (besides which, the dead's roles will reveal it in good time anyway).

26 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

If it was a trap, he sprung it with the lynch suggestion before anybody could think of claiming, so he ruined the chance to catch anything but town.

Nope! If it was a trap, the lynching thing was the entire point of it. That way we (at least I and I guess you too from your post) would have been sure the claiming one WAS TOWN and then not lynch him (after waiting for those who really wanted to lynch him). But who cares for a missed oportunity? It is not like what we write here is written on stone.

35 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I myself do not think discerning the setup is worth even risking a town life, let alone actually spending one, as if we continue to hunt suspicious people and the game continues, we will know that there are more (besides which, the dead's roles will reveal it in good time anyway).

I disagree. I mean, I know you already think that. But I proved that a town life worth it last game, hehehe. Your death (also just the threat of you being modkilled) let Mad exposed. LTD's suggestion is legit. I think he didn't think it twice as you didn't yours, that's all.

From a SK point of view, he wins nothing. He knows if it wasn't a vigilante's kill so he knows the vigilante won't show up.

From a scum point of view, he wins little. He would like to know if there is a SK or a vigilante. If it is a one-shot vigilante he wins nothing anyway. If the vigilante is not one-shot, then I think I would let him shooting in the dark, at least one more night. It is not like he had everyone stuck to his ***.

At least that's my approach. I don't see his suggestion suspicious. I see it bad. As long as it hurts town I will ignore it. I don't need to lynch him due to that. I will lynch him if I think he is scum.

4 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Nope! If it was a trap, the lynching thing was the entire point of it. That way we (at least I and I guess you too from your post) would have been sure the claiming one WAS TOWN and then not lynch him (after waiting for those who really wanted to lynch him).

I hadn't thought of that approach. That at least eases somewhat my concerns.

14 hours ago, LTD said:

Let me emphasise: I do NOT think we have a vigilante. I think we have a serial killer.

For EbonHawk to suggest I haven’t said anything in 72 hours is foolish and inaccurate.

I have made my case against Lord Preyer. I have nothing else to add.

I said in 72 hours you've made less than 10 posts (3 about hanging), completely different that to not saying anything bud and i thought you read things properly...

10 hours ago, Madaghmire said:

Did I miss a vote somewhere?

Nope not that I'm aware, no new vote from Trance today

10 hours ago, Tranceform said:

@Podracer nope. And I would not change my vote to @CaribbeanNinja either. While I don't like him throwing suspicion on me, it was expected that someone would based on the way I have been playing. Accusing someone to be scum just because they accuse you is not sufficient unfortunately. I also lack any hard evidence against him at this time. I will stay with my vote for now against you unless you would like to make a case for yourself.

This doesn't read new player to me...

And I've got I have very little to go on today and lack of conversation hasn't help at all...!

we've got 5 hours left..

9 hours ago, LTD said:

I doubt anyone has hard evidence against anyone - unless we rolled CCC and there's another cop - which seems unlikely.

I have to agree it doesn't seem like anyone has much, but if I'm voting today Ltd or trance ping for me, but with no one saying much my reads are limited... Will wait till 2 hours left then I'll vote

I’m heading to bed and will miss the deadline.

No one has followed me on Lord Preyer, so my vote is likely wasted with him. It is in town’s interest to get some kind of outcome, so I will join the tranceform bandwagon, though I am less than convinced.

My suspicion rests with those who have not voted.

## unvote

## vote tranceform

15 hours ago, Tranceform said:

Mafia/Scum purposefully left me alive so they could build a case against me mostly drawn from my own reasoning earlier which is essentially nothing to add and basically observing

You seem to have gone on the defensive before needed imo

After all, before this post was just me quoting your entire day of 5posts and then reaffirming to Ovi no scum case was being built, just we should watch you..

As said above you've then jumped to defensive positions..

15 hours ago, Tranceform said:

 You should be watching me but not voting me.

No one was but pod?

15 hours ago, Tranceform said:

They are most likely mafia/scum who agreed to let me live so they could build an easy case against me. 

'They' again just pod voting him still.. And 'who' so he assumes we have 3 scum, with jabba dead who would be able to talk at night still... He also presumes again scum left him alive to pressure him not just because he's new which would be more obvious imo

10 hours ago, Tranceform said:

@Podracer nope. And I would not change my vote to @CaribbeanNinja either. While I don't like him throwing suspicion on me, it was expected that someone would based on the way I have been playing. Accusing someone to be scum just because they accuse you is not sufficient unfortunately. I also lack any hard evidence against him at this time. I will stay with my vote for now against you unless you would like to make a case for yourself.

He he directs away, and more importantly imo the bit in bold

This is exactly what he is *actually* doing though, he is voting pod only because pod is voting him from the start of the day, and his only evidence pod is scum is that he (trance) survived the night.. Lool

Your reactions are interesting to say the least trance

3 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

This is exactly what he is *actually* doing though, he is voting pod only because pod is voting him from the start of the day

I already said, I voted against pod because I agreed with the reasoning of another. But you are free to interpret my actions that way as well.

3 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Your reactions are interesting to say the least trance

Thanks.