6 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

The combination of broken elements in this list is hard to imagine until you play it. I've played close to a dozen games with it, most against what myself and other locals considered to be "hard counters", and I haven't lost a game yet.

Advanced Sensors takes away Whispers biggest vulnerability: getting blocked without an action or shot. This kills Whisper immediately. With AS, it's never a problem.

I'm very interested in trying this list, but can't think of a solid plan vs the current heavyweight in my area: 2X2ASheathipede. Other than trying to split up the swarm, and blinded pilot the AWings, and Killing AP-5 immediately, how do you fly this list vs swarmy things in general? Or crackshot enabled swarms?

3 minutes ago, Jyico said:

I'm very interested in trying this list, but can't think of a solid plan vs the current heavyweight in my area: 2X2ASheathipede. Other than trying to split up the swarm, and blinded pilot the AWings, and Killing AP-5 immediately, how do you fly this list vs swarmy things in general? Or crackshot enabled swarms?

Whisper should be able to handle swarms fairly easily. Drag them through the rocks, split them up, play the range control game with decloaks, etc.

Kylo isn't particularly effective in this matchup though, so I wouldn't worry too much about using that as an action (Integrated Astromech can be used to cancel blinded pilots ☹️). But if you're worried about the maneuverability of the xwings, it's a quick way to get rid of the FAA.

Crackshot is kinda scary, so kill them quick... maybe even before AP-5

56 minutes ago, Crit Happens said:

[Krennic Whisper, Palp Vermeil, Kylo Bomber.]

How does this play that makes it so strong/broken? I'm familiar with all the pieces, but I don't see anything that leaps out as "more broken" than everything that's dominated Metawing for the last year or more.

What am I missing?

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

How does this play that makes it so strong/broken? I'm familiar with all the pieces, but I don't see anything that leaps out as "more broken" than everything that's dominated Metawing for the last year or more.

What am I missing?

I'm going to compare this to other squads focused around Whisper first:

We've had pieces of this together before. RAC+Whisper was kind of the closest thing to it, in that it combined Whisper with Palp and Kylo. The real strength of that squad over something like Mynock special was that it had two ships that do damage, and could mitigate the PS10/11 problem. The weakness of RAC Whisper was how quickly RAC could be trapped and burned down, taking palp off the board.

So, why is this better? The addition of Krennic -> Advanced Sensors on Whisper mitigates her other weakness: being blocked with no actions and no shot. I still have a second ship that can deal damage (Vermeil), but can also run away when needed and turn on a dime to get back into the fight when needed. Also jam (I won't go on about how awesome it is, but it's awesome). So, to recap, I've got an unblockable Whisper, a Palp shuttle that can actually contribute offense or run effectively, and guaranteed blinded pilots or damaged cockpits at will. All three of these ships are pretty important targets to get off the board.

I'll point out that I said it was "the most broken list I've ever flown". I never played Miranda/Nym, Ghost/Fenn, 100 point Miranda more than a handful of times combined. I have noticed in my test games that 100 point Whisper turns off a lot of what those squads do. Proton bomb Nym (big baddie #1 for Whisper) is super sad at PS 0, and Miranda is sad when blinded. A ghost about to have a R1 shot on my Palp Vermeil is super sad when it's blinded. Bombs in general are super easy to avoid with a 4 decloak. There are simply a bunch of tools to handle a bunch of stuff. It looks super fair and wholesome because it has 3 front arc only ships, but in practice it really isn't fair.

With all that being said... I've played several hundred games with Whisper. Not everyone can pick up this squad and win. It would be really easy for a new Whisper player to simply get in trouble and die, but I've learned all those lessons. A lot... Could I be over-selling it's effectiveness? Sure, probably. But I've never seen a squad that has so many tools to handle so many things. This was probably really disjointed, but I simply typed as I thought. I hope the explanation helps.

Also, try it out! It's amazingly fun if you like flying phantoms!

Vader and Tie Strikers

6 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

With all that being said... I've played several hundred games with Whisper. Not everyone can pick up this squad and win. It would be really easy for a new Whisper player to simply get in trouble and die, but I've learned all those lessons. A lot... Could I be over-selling it's effectiveness? Sure, probably. But I've never seen a squad that has so many tools to handle so many things. This was probably really disjointed, but I simply typed as I thought. I hope the explanation helps.

Also, try it out! It's amazingly fun if you like flying phantoms!

For kicks and giggles at game night tonight I took a Krennic Whisper (Which I hearby dub "Krisper") and Echo and Wampa, because I wanted to try Krisper and I haven't flown x2 phantoms in years.

And I got wrecked.

It was a lot of fun but the dice failed Krisper on the first round of fire- not once, but in 5 consecutive rolls. Krisper's first attack (so no TL yet) netted me 1 crit and 3 blanks, and ended up missing. Then came 4 obstructed cloaked defense rolls- and I took 1-2 damage on every single roll. I even blanked out on the one roll where my opponent only had 1 hit.

After that Wampa went down quickly while Echo danced around a bit, but then I bumped and ended up taking two shots up the tailpipe while decloaked and it was game over. I got trounced- I didn't even deal a single damage card to my opponent. I guess I need more practice with phantoms.

Anyway, this thread is about store championships. I'll probably be taking this list, which did much better for me tonight than the phantoms did:

Don’t fear the reaper (100)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

•Colonel Vessery (35) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

Scarif Base Pilot (31) - TIE Reaper
•Director Krennic (5), ISB Slicer (2), Advanced Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

One of these three:

-Wullffwarro (Trick Shot)
-Lowhhrick (Trick Shot)
-Chewbacca [original, no crits] (Trick Shot)
100 points

-Dengar (Predator, Recon Specialist, Punishing One)
-Thweek (StarViper Mk. II, Virago, Fire-Control System, Autothrusters)
-Unkar Plutt (SpaceTug Tractor Array)
100 points

-Vizier (Recon Specialist, Systems Officer, Advanced AIlerons, Multi-Spectral Camouflage)
-Countdown (Adaptive Ailerons, Hull Upgrade)
-Pure Sabacc (Expertise, Adaptive Ailerons, Lightweight Frame)
-Scourge (Predator)
100 points

Most probably the Wookies. Not consistent at all but more fun. The Scum one seems to be the most "serious" and the Imperial one could be cool, but is untested so far. My last 1.0 event in any case, so I think I'll go for the fun factor mainly. Nice bookend to my 1.0 competitive experience too, since I played Chewbacca in my first ever tournament (2014).

the last two I took qd3b. I finished 5th in both, just missing the cut. :-/

8 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Anyway, this thread is about store championships. I'll probably be taking this list, which did much better for me tonight than the phantoms did:

Don’t fear the reaper (100)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

•Colonel Vessery (35) - TIE Defender
Juke (2), TIE/x7 (-2)

Scarif Base Pilot (31) - TIE Reaper
•Director Krennic (5), ISB Slicer (2), Advanced Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Does Glaive get the Krennic OP? That'd be pretty sweet. It attacks first, spends a blank to remove a shield, then grants SBP a TL, which powers the Colonel's attack, too. Seems totally worthwhile to use Glaive over Countess in a setup like that.

A shirt that says Judge, a FAQ, and some range rulers.

17 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

I'm going to compare this to other squads focused around Whisper first:

We've had pieces of this together before. RAC+Whisper was kind of the closest thing to it, in that it combined Whisper with Palp and Kylo. The real strength of that squad over something like Mynock special was that it had two ships that do damage, and could mitigate the PS10/11 problem. The weakness of RAC Whisper was how quickly RAC could be trapped and burned down, taking palp off the board.

So, why is this better? The addition of Krennic -> Advanced Sensors on Whisper mitigates her other weakness: being blocked with no actions and no shot. I still have a second ship that can deal damage (Vermeil), but can also run away when needed and turn on a dime to get back into the fight when needed. Also jam (I won't go on about how awesome it is, but it's awesome). So, to recap, I've got an unblockable Whisper, a Palp shuttle that can actually contribute offense or run effectively, and guaranteed blinded pilots or damaged cockpits at will. All three of these ships are pretty important targets to get off the board.

I'll point out that I said it was "the most broken list I've ever flown". I never played Miranda/Nym, Ghost/Fenn, 100 point Miranda more than a handful of times combined. I have noticed in my test games that 100 point Whisper turns off a lot of what those squads do. Proton bomb Nym (big baddie #1 for Whisper) is super sad at PS 0, and Miranda is sad when blinded. A ghost about to have a R1 shot on my Palp Vermeil is super sad when it's blinded. Bombs in general are super easy to avoid with a 4 decloak. There are simply a bunch of tools to handle a bunch of stuff. It looks super fair and wholesome because it has 3 front arc only ships, but in practice it really isn't fair.

With all that being said... I've played several hundred games with Whisper. Not everyone can pick up this squad and win. It would be really easy for a new Whisper player to simply get in trouble and die, but I've learned all those lessons. A lot... Could I be over-selling it's effectiveness? Sure, probably. But I've never seen a squad that has so many tools to handle so many things. This was probably really disjointed, but I simply typed as I thought. I hope the explanation helps.

Also, try it out! It's amazingly fun if you like flying phantoms!

I've been running Whisper + Reaper + a.n. Other for the past few weeks, but really tempted to try this version out next. Dunno if taking it to my SC tomorrow with no practice is a wise move though lol

3 minutes ago, Red42 said:

I've been running Whisper + Reaper + a.n. Other for the past few weeks, but really tempted to try this version out next. Dunno if taking it to my SC tomorrow with no practice is a wise move though lol

Do it.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Does Glaive get the Krennic OP? That'd be pretty sweet. It attacks first, spends a blank to remove a shield, then grants SBP a TL, which powers the Colonel's attack, too. Seems totally worthwhile to use Glaive over Countess in a setup like that.

That's exactly the plan. Plus it make target priority tougher since both the Glaive and Vessery are serious threats, not to mention the super annoying Reaper that's passing out Jam tokens and enabling Juke.

18 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

Also, try it out! It's amazingly fun if you like flying phantoms!

I do ... to some extent. I ended up being very good with Echo (after starting out rocking Echo three times at Imdaar Alpha).

So that raises an interesting point: your anti-ace tech is the Scimitar, PS0ing anybody at PS 9 or higher, right? (With an assist from Vermeil's Jam action.) Would the same strategy make it viable to take Echo instead, do you think? (I do understand that, post-Decloak-nerf, Whisper is more powerful, but I just have a lot more fun with Echo, generally speaking. It doesn't really need to be "as good" for me to enjoy it, but it does need to be viable.)

Last night at our store for my farewell 1.0 game I played a list I named "Never Forgotten"

i was just a squad of pilots who didn't make 2.0. I lost in glorious fashion, lending weight to why they might not be in 2.0!

EDIT: Derp, the list woulda been nice to include. It was Etahn, Dantels, and Tycho! RIP! As a side note someone did mention it shoulda been named my "Bae". Since it's a B, A, E wing...

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I do ... to some extent. I ended up being very good with Echo (after starting out rocking Echo three times at Imdaar Alpha).

So that raises an interesting point: your anti-ace tech is the Scimitar, PS0ing anybody at PS 9 or higher, right? (With an assist from Vermeil's Jam action.) Would the same strategy make it viable to take Echo instead, do you think? (I do understand that, post-Decloak-nerf, Whisper is more powerful, but I just have a lot more fun with Echo, generally speaking. It doesn't really need to be "as good" for me to enjoy it, but it does need to be viable.)

I was thinking the same thing, with a couple more points to spare for that bomber! I guess the reaper means you won't face a harpoon before you PS0 and/or blinded pilot it. Interesting interactions I'm going to have to try.

4 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I do ... to some extent. I ended up being very good with Echo (after starting out rocking Echo three times at Imdaar Alpha).

So that raises an interesting point: your anti-ace tech is the Scimitar, PS0ing anybody at PS 9 or higher, right? (With an assist from Vermeil's Jam action.) Would the same strategy make it viable to take Echo instead, do you think? (I do understand that, post-Decloak-nerf, Whisper is more powerful, but I just have a lot more fun with Echo, generally speaking. It doesn't really need to be "as good" for me to enjoy it, but it does need to be viable.)

Correct. It's still pretty good, but obviously suffers from one fewer focus token. That extra focus (or focus plus evade) is huge against a ghost. I also have way more fun flying Echo, but she's just not as good defensively as Whisper. Plus, it puts a bit more of a burden on the Scimitar to PS0 ships like Inquisitor and Miranda, rather than being able to blind them instead when Whisper is on the table.

38 minutes ago, Jyico said:

I was thinking the same thing, with a couple more points to spare for that bomber! I guess the reaper means you won't face a harpoon before you PS0 and/or blinded pilot it. Interesting interactions I'm going to have to try.

Yeah, I was thinking Mutispectral Camo and Intel Agent on the Scimitar.

2 hours ago, Crit Happens said:

Correct. It's still pretty good, but obviously suffers from one fewer focus token. That extra focus (or focus plus evade) is huge against a ghost. I also have way more fun flying Echo, but she's just not as good defensively as Whisper. Plus, it puts a bit more of a burden on the Scimitar to PS0 ships like Inquisitor and Miranda, rather than being able to blind them instead when Whisper is on the table.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to drop VI off of Whisper/Echo *gasp shock horror* in exchange for another useful EPT. I mean, if you're going to PS 0 them anyway then it doesn't matter much if you are PS 6/7 or 7/9

Vader, SBP with slicer and Krennic, and a SJA FCS Silencer. Lots of fun to fly and I’ve done well with it in practice.

Scarif Base Pilot (31) - TIE Reaper
ISB Slicer (2), •Director Krennic (5), Advanced Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

•Darth Vader (35) - TIE Advanced
Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Sienar-Jaemus Analyst (34) - TIE Silencer
Fire Control System (2), Advanced Optics (2), •First Order Vanguard (2), Autothrusters (2)

27 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to drop VI off of Whisper/Echo *gasp shock horror* in exchange for another useful EPT. I mean, if you're going to PS 0 them anyway then it doesn't matter much if you are PS 6/7 or 7/9

I ran a ton of Lone Wolf Echo for a while, and can be really good, but there's a critical mass of higher PS that you can realistically deal with. Any more than 2 ships with higher PS poses a serious problem. You can only PS0 2 of them, and only one per turn at best. So theoretically your PS doesn't matter, but in practice, it actually still does.

For a very short time a couple of years ago I ran PS 11 Vader and Epsilon Ace with Decoy Echo, and did pretty well with it. If Decoy's leash were unlimited, or even out to R3, I think it would've been a truly viable list. It was crazy fun.

But yeah, you just can't let that many strong pilots out-PS you. As Crit Happens said, using Echo you're already opening the door for having to "waste" PS 0 on Miranda and Inquisitor ... just imagine that going all the way down to Col. Vessery, Vermeil, and Asaaj (ouch, Asaaj!) with stops at Dash and Backdraft and Vermeil. No, I'm afraid VI is still stapled to Phantoms ... basically because the Decloak fix was done poorly.

To actually respond to the thread, I ran Krennic Vader plus RAClo last weekend at my second Store Champs this season (we shall not speak of the first) and went 5-1 for 2nd, getting trounced in the finals by a very strong Five Guys flown impeccably by one of the very few local players whom I have never beaten (unless my memory is faulty).

I'm not sure what I'm taking to the next one. In the running are:

Echo / Vermeil / Scimitar

Vessery / Glaive / Scarif Base Pilot

Scarif Base Pilot x2 / Whisper

Some form of 90% bombing list ... something like Nym / Bob / Ahsoka.

At some point between now and then, I'll also have a brief panic and try to figure out if there's anything Brobots can do in the era of super-Jam and X-wing swarms. (But the answer to that is, "No. No, there is not.")

Given the X-wing SPAM that is amongst us, I am moving towards the following:

2x Cartel Executioners (M-12's), Deadeye, ION TORPEDOES, Harpoons, Chips; plus standard 30-point Thweek - 98 points.

I am going to miss the splash ion tokens in 2nd ed.

9 minutes ago, balindamood said:

Given the X-wing SPAM that is amongst us, I am moving towards the following:

2x Cartel Executioners (M-12's), Deadeye, ION TORPEDOES, Harpoons, Chips; plus standard 30-point Thweek - 98 points.

I am going to miss the splash ion tokens in 2nd ed.

I kinda wonder if it'd be worth trying to squeeze Overclocked R4 onto those, so you could spend the focus to launch, take a stress, and gain a second token to modify dice. I guess Harpoons are still the condition and potential splash damage, but Concussion with Deadeye/Overclocked is really strong, with a blank-turn, a focus token, and GC. Almost guaranteed 4 hits (95%, and 99.6% of 3). Ion Torps would go to a 3.68 hit average, 74% chance of 4 hits, up from a 2.94 average, 31% chance of 4.