Hello guys,

I write as an organisator (ok, only 3 tournaments so far, all GNK). The store that I worked with was on the list for a store championship which I was supposed to organize. I did the last two GNK with this store. The first one was a really big success and the store owner was really enthusiastic. We had a full house and the store had a lot additional sales this day (not only X-Wing related).

The second tournament was already a little bit more difficult (even tought we were booked out again - had to build up even a additional table). The owner did not offer much help. The GNK was late and but in the end he managed to get one but was really not very forthcoming about it (he seemed rather annoyed each time I asked if we have official price support). At the day of the tournament I asked him to place the mats before the players come because I was a little bit late... he said he has other stuff to do. When we had more players then expected he did not like my idea to set up another table (which was possible and in the end we did it). Dont want to send people away that drove more than 1h.

Now, because of personal issues, the happenings at the second tournament and his reluctance to work out a fixed date*** we argued and in the end he decided to not longer to support the "X-Wing community" and not do the Store Championship at all.

I mean we have plenty of stores here and it would not be the only Store Championship in the vicinity. But a lot of people looked forward to play this kit.

Do you guys have any ideas?
Thanks in advance

***he already booked every weekend - the only time for tournaments - for 1 TCG... even tough he knew and talked about that Store championship for a long time... and he said he dont even knows if we can make a tournament even as late as September for the already received Store Championship Kit (it is in his store)

Sounds like you have no choice: the store owner doesn't want to hold a tournament, so you can't.

It can happen. Sad for your group and sad for visiting players, but out of your hands. Play at a more enthusiastic store instead.

My group had to do that, and we've just held our inaugural event at our new host shop, which went down very well.

Are there any stores in your area worth going to? This place sounds....unworthy of patronage.

If there is not, you may be able to get a kit ordered through some other store and have your event someplace else. A hall or a library.

I worked in an FLGS for a while, and we had regular events pretty much every week. 40k, Warmahordes, Guildball, as well as some card games. My POV comes from experience.

I personally don't think the owner is at fault here. It's a lot of stress when there is a tournament, and people are agitated. When you have over 40 people crowding in a store, everybody is impatient, some are salty and tilted... and let's face it. Negative stereotypes or not, 40 sweaty neckbeards are not a pleasant company.

When you have this every week, it get's to your nerves. In my experience organizers and players don't clean up their stuff, empty bottles, wrappers and everything are just thrown around.

In addition to this, you ask THEM to help YOU out, because you can't manage your time? That's literally the only thing you have to do.

I totally understand why he sent you away. You didn't struck me as someone who approached the situation with humility and respect. It's a lot of work to handle an event like that, and there isn't too much incentive for it.

I've sent away people who didn't make sure to make it go as smoothly as it can.

My advice is that if you ever organize another event, confirm every participant, appear ahead of time, set up the necessary things, talk about scheduling things like breaks, clean up your shiet afterwards (or at least throw stuff in the trashcan), and don't put additional problems on the owner.

If you are the "organizer", it is your responsibility to keep everyone on time, and make sure that everyone has a place. Put some effort into it, and don't expect others to do your work for you, for free.

Follow him to his home. Steal his identity. Skin him and wear it like a costume. Assume his identity. You are now in full control of that store! Do us proud!

40 sweaty neckbeards with money to spend in the store. These stores are plenty compensated for setting up a few folding tables and pretending to be interested.

Go somewhere else and take as many of his customers with you as possible.

Just now, Velvetelvis said:

40 sweaty neckbeards with money to spend in the store. These stores are plenty compensated for setting up a few folding tables and pretending to be interested.

Go somewhere else and take as many of his customers with you as possible.

There are expectations towards the costumer. Basic hygiene is one. Arriving on time is one. Keeping stuff as you've found it is one.


Btw, what do you think the profit margins for selling miniatures are?

On a game like x wing, probably between 1 and 2 dollars a ship. Why?

I'm mean, I'm not saying this store SHOULD do anything. They can do whatever they want. If the tournament thing isn't worth the hassle ,I dont have a problem with it.

Like I said, just take your money elsewhere if it's a problem with this place. It's either not going to hurt the store at all....which is fine, or it will and they can choose to be more useful to the community and support events...which is also fine.

I'm not clear where any negative outcome is hiding here.

Many people dont just play Xwing. So bringing 40 people into a store and a few of them purchase a couple $40+ board games or $20-$30 in booster MTG or Destiny or Pokemon cards is the reason they hold the tourneys in the first place. You pay $60-$70 for the kit and it turns into a couple hu dred $$$ in sales AND possibly future sales as some players who have never ventured into the store now know where it is and what it is about.

If an owner doesnt want to support the kit for whatever reason then players can move elsewhere. I know I dont spend money in gamestores where my game is not supported.

Offer to buy the kit from the store, then hold the championship off site. Use the store's name in the event so they still get the benefit of the advertising but don't have the pain of hosting.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Many people dont just play Xwing. So bringing 40 people into a store and a few of them purchase a couple $40+ board games or $20-$30 in booster MTG or Destiny or Pokemon cards is the reason they hold the tourneys in the first place. You pay $60-$70 for the kit and it turns into a couple hu dred $$$ in sales AND possibly future sales as some players who have never ventured into the store now know where it is and what it is about.

If an owner doesnt want to support the kit for whatever reason then players can move elsewhere. I know I dont spend money in gamestores where my game is not supported.

Again. I'm speaking from experience. What you say, doesn't really happen. Maybe once in a blue moon. The average event has some income from food and drinks, and 1 or 2 guys might buy a blister or something.

It is very rare that someone with enough disposable income and inclination to buy stuff strides into the store, without having done so anyway. From 40 people, if we saw an average of 3 purchases, we were happy. People don't casually spend 100-s of $$$ on your average weekend tourney.

The big moneys come from selling stupid ****, like playmats and other accessories. Painting tools etc. Organizing events is not exactly profitable (or at least, in this country). And the place they take up with all the tables, usually drive regulars away, who'd spend more.

If your store isn't the central hub of a game, allowing people to hold events is pretty much a charity. So when they can't get their **** together and arrive on time, they get sent away.

Why does the store championship have to be played over one day? Use the OP Kit as prizes for the entire month of playing for the group that comes there each week. One day to find the store champion is the way most places do it. But it that truly the Stores Champion, or is it the best player for those Swiss rounds and cut. If this is your home store, then just use the kit to reward the winner of the next few weeks of x-wing league gaming. You would just have to keep track of MOV, who played who, and attempted to make sure players played equal number of games each time and evenly. Just my 2 cents.

9 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Sounds like you have no choice: the store owner doesn't want to hold a tournament, so you can't.

It can happen. Sad for your group and sad for visiting players, but out of your hands. Play at a more enthusiastic store instead.

My group had to do that, and we've just held our inaugural event at our new host shop, which went down very well. 

Yes. I mean we have 5 store championships organized by other shops in less then 1,5h away. It is not like we have no opportunity to play. Our playgroup (we are organized in a club with like 12 members playing x-wing on a regulary base) is spread out anyway. Some buy at other local stores.... because we have a lot here (so a lot of competition for the store owners). We stick just with the other shops now. But one more would not have hurt.

9 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Are there any stores in your area worth going to? This place sounds....unworthy of patronage. 

If there is not, you may be able to get a kit ordered through some other store and have your event someplace else. A hall or a library. 

Yes, see above.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

I worked in an FLGS for a while, and we had regular events pretty much every week. 40k, Warmahordes, Guildball, as well as some card games. My POV comes from experience.

I personally don't think the owner is at fault here. It's a lot of stress when there is a tournament, and people are agitated. When you have over 40 people crowding in a store, everybody is impatient, some are salty and tilted... and let's face it. Negative stereotypes or not, 40 sweaty neckbeards are not a pleasant company.

When you have this every week, it get's to your nerves. In my experience organizers and players don't clean up their stuff, empty bottles, wrappers and everything are just thrown around. 

In addition to this, you ask THEM to help YOU out, because you can't manage your time? That's literally the only thing you have to do. 

I totally understand why he sent you away. You didn't struck me as someone who approached the situation with humility and respect. It's a lot of work to handle an event like that, and there isn't too much incentive for it. 

I've sent away people who didn't make sure to make it go as smoothly as it can. 

My advice is that if you ever organize another event, confirm every participant, appear ahead of time, set up the necessary things, talk about scheduling things like breaks, clean up your shiet afterwards (or at least throw stuff in the trashcan), and don't put additional problems on the owner. 

If you are the "organizer", it is your responsibility to keep everyone on time, and make sure that everyone has a place. Put some effort into it, and don't expect others to do your work for you, for free. 

You are making a lot of assumptions here. I guess you totally overestimate this business. It is more like 14 players max (because he wont let me set up a 8th table even tough it was totally fine).

We have NOT a single one of these nerdy, unwashed stereotypes in our regular gaming group. And to break another stereotype... most of the gamers are married or have girlfriends. Incredible. Isn´t it? But great to see how you think of your "customers". But maybe you are just unlucky.

And I dont know with what kind of people you play... we clean up the store. A few members of the club always stayed with me to move the tables back, remove the plywood sheets, remove the mats (that WE - the club members BOUGHT and BROUGHT). I even sweeped the floor.

He basicly had no work at all with the event - beside being there and sell stuff as usuall. Oh and he took care of our pizza order. I announced the event. I took care of the prizes (designed trophys, ordered them, made winner certificates and bought a lot of star wars merch). I payed the prizes (in advance, without knowing how many people will show up in the end), i payed him for the GNK (which other stores give away for FREE). I did the pairing, I set up the tables (moving them, set up the plywood, printed table numbers, printed pairing lists to hang out after each round), our club brought the mats, we cleaned the store. Each tournament prize set included a gift card from the store, that we paid (support your local gaming store - u know). What more could I / we have done?

I asked HIM ONCE to help out, because I was a little bit later then expected (not even too late). And the store is small. I have been there a lot in the last half year (he opened it october). He would have had the time. Trust me. I was in time anyway and did the setup. It would have just been nice if he helped out. Not just being present.

2 minutes ago, beardxofxdeath said:

Yes. I mean we have 5 store championships organized by other shops in less then 1,5h away. It is not like we have no opportunity to play. Our playgroup (we are organized in a club with like 12 members playing x-wing on a regulary base) is spread out anyway. Some buy at other local stores.... because we have a lot here (so a lot of competition for the store owners). We stick just with the other shops now. But one more would not have hurt.

Yes, see above.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. I guess you totally overestimate this business. It is more like 14 players max (because he wont let me set up a 8th table even tough it was totally fine).

We have NOT a single one of these nerdy, unwashed stereotypes in our regular gaming group. And to break another stereotype... most of the gamers are married or have girlfriends. Incredible. Isn´t it? But great to see how you think of your "customers". But maybe you are just unlucky.

And I dont know with what kind of people you play... we clean up the store. A few members of the club always stayed with me to move the tables back, remove the plywood sheets, remove the mats (that WE - the club members BOUGHT and BROUGHT). I even sweeped the floor.

He basicly had no work at all with the event - beside being there and sell stuff as usuall. Oh and he took care of our pizza order. I announced the event. I took care of the prizes (designed trophys, ordered them, made winner certificates and bought a lot of star wars merch). I payed the prizes (in advance, without knowing how many people will show up in the end), i payed him for the GNK (which other stores give away for FREE). I did the pairing, I set up the tables (moving them, set up the plywood, printed table numbers, printed pairing lists to hang out after each round), our club brought the mats, we cleaned the store. Each tournament prize set included a gift card from the store, that we paid (support your local gaming store - u know). What more could I / we have done?

I asked HIM ONCE to help out, because I was a little bit later then expected (not even too late). And the store is small. I have been there a lot in the last half year (he opened it october). He would have had the time. Trust me. I was in time anyway and did the setup. It would have just been nice if he helped out. Not just being present.

Okay. I def. projected some of my negative experiences on you. Sorry for that

Unfortunately the store owner sounds like the typical bad FLGS owner. There's not much you can do other than try to find a more accommodating store to run your tournaments at. In my experience, bad store owners often don't appreciate the tangential benefits of building a community and are often too focussed on immediate financial benefits of everything. Being known as a good place to play can lead to better sales in the long run. I was discussing this very fact with a store owner yesterday. He said running an X-Wing tournament for him doesn't make a huge profit but it's good PR for the shop and, in the years he's been hosting various tournaments the word-of-mouth benefits have been pretty substantial. Seems like your store owner is too short-sighted. Or maybe he's one of those store owners who prefers only having a specific clique playing at his store, kind of like his own personal club. I've seen that a lot too.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Organizing events is not exactly profitable (or at least, in this country). And the place they take up with all the tables, usually drive regulars away, who'd spend more. 

Organising event is compulsory in this business. Customers are stone cold and will buy in another shop or online if they don't feel at home in your shop. Sometimes it is very annoying but it is not something you can avoid if you want to last. Events one their own don't bring money. Lack of events bring you down.

But you are right one this:

Why organising events with mean and late people that cost you time and cleaning when you can organize simpler events with kind customer? If the benefit is the same, why would they support us.

All of us, player, organizer ( thanks all of them) have to show good vibes and respect if we want our game to be played. Their is lot of other games and community that also want events.

My first advice if you want a shop owner to be interested in your community. Propose game afternoon made to present the game and the rules to newcomers. no championship

Also, It should be more events based on casual and missions, because the meta is boring as **** and nobody want to spend an hour watching vcx100 vs vcx100

My humble thought.

Champion du monde!

5 minutes ago, Jike said:

Unfortunately the store owner sounds like the typical bad FLGS owner. There's not much you can do other than try to find a more accommodating store to run your tournaments at. In my experience, bad store owners often don't appreciate the tangential benefits of building a community and are often too focussed on immediate financial benefits of everything. Being known as a good place to play can lead to better sales in the long run. I was discussing this very fact with a store owner yesterday. He said running an X-Wing tournament for him doesn't make a huge profit but it's good PR for the shop and, in the years he's been hosting various tournaments the word-of-mouth benefits have been pretty substantial. Seems like your store owner is too short-sighted. Or maybe he's one of those store owners who prefers only having a specific clique playing at his store, kind of like his own personal club. I've seen that a lot too.

Most customers are into TCG. They take up less shelve space, the players dont need up as much space.... and very nature of random TCG makes more sales. I guess this i part of the problem too.

Where I am, store championships regularly cost $20 (AUD) for entry. I can't pinpoint the exact cost of the SC kits, but I highly doubt it's more than $150. So once you reach 8 players, you've got straight up profit, provided you weren't using the table space for another tournament before scheduling the X-wing SC.

The last SC I went to had 22 players, so 440 in, 150 out leaves you with a profit of $290 for an 8 hour play session in a medium sized area (plus two tables for the cut), in addition to any profits made from extra sales. That's a pretty great deal, when you'd ordinarily get a mere $1-2 from any blister sale. Add in community building and cross-promotion to other games (running Armada and X-Wing tournaments on the same day, in the same room is a classic example) and you've got a recipe for success.

OP, I have no idea why your FLGS isn't going for the tournaments. With a packed store they're sure to be making a killing. I'd second the idea to buy the kit from the store and host the tournament off site. My relatively small city has plenty of community halls for hire that can accommodate 40+ people at a meagre cost, so you could either run the tournament with a nice profit, or dish out some excellent prize support, even after hall hire.

1 hour ago, Astech said:

Where I am, store championships regularly cost $20 (AUD) for entry. I can't pinpoint the exact cost of the SC kits, but I highly doubt it's more than $150. So once you reach 8 players, you've got straight up profit, provided you weren't using the table space for another tournament before scheduling the X-wing SC.

The last SC I went to had 22 players, so 440 in, 150 out leaves you with a profit of $290 for an 8 hour play session in a medium sized area (plus two tables for the cut), in addition to any profits made from extra sales. That's a pretty great deal, when you'd ordinarily get a mere $1-2 from any blister sale. Add in community building and cross-promotion to other games (running Armada and X-Wing tournaments on the same day, in the same room is a classic example) and you've got a recipe for success.

OP, I have no idea why your FLGS isn't going for the tournaments. With a packed store they're sure to be making a killing. I'd second the idea to buy the kit from the store and host the tournament off site. My relatively small city has plenty of community halls for hire that can accommodate 40+ people at a meagre cost, so you could either run the tournament with a nice profit, or dish out some excellent prize support, even after hall hire.

I maybe try to get back into touch with him if he wants to sell the kit. Depending how petty he will be he might agree. Or he sells the kit on ebay in individual parts. We will see.

6 hours ago, Mrmrsd said:

Why does the store championship have to be played over one day? Use the OP Kit as prizes for the entire month of playing for the group that comes there each week. One day to find the store champion is the way most places do it. But it that truly the Stores Champion, or is it the best player for those Swiss rounds and cut. If this is your home store, then just use the kit to reward the winner of the next few weeks of x-wing league gaming. You would just have to keep track of MOV, who played who, and attempted to make sure players played equal number of games each time and evenly. Just my 2 cents.

@Mrmrsd - Store Championship kits are part of an official Tournament Track, and need to be run in a specific manner. You could definitely do what you've suggested with the Seasonal / Quarterly kits though

20 hours ago, beardxofxdeath said:

I maybe try to get back into touch with him if he wants to sell the kit. Depending how petty he will be he might agree. Or he sells the kit on ebay in individual parts. We will see.

If he just sells the kit on Ebay, there can be some consequences if FFG finds out.

10 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

If he just sells the kit on Ebay, there can be some consequences if FFG finds out.

I keep hearing this, but the night before our store champ kit arrived all the prizes showed up on eBay. They always seem to show up a few days before for the standard game night kits as well. I don’t think it’s policed near as well as people like to think. There have been store champ prizes on the bay since the the kits first started arriving. The first guy to post them had, all separate auctions of course, top two range rulers and all cardstock cards, 3-8 range rulers with all cardstock, and three separate spot gloss cavern angels, one for 1st, one for 2nd and the unmarked one for the TO.

4 minutes ago, Vykk Draygo said:

I keep hearing this, but the night before our store champ kit arrived all the prizes showed up on eBay. They always seem to show up a few days before for the standard game night kits as well. I don’t think it’s policed near as well as people like to think. There have been store champ prizes on the bay since the the kits first started arriving. The first guy to post them had, all separate auctions of course, top two range rulers and all cardstock cards, 3-8 range rulers with all cardstock, and three separate spot gloss cavern angels, one for 1st, one for 2nd and the unmarked one for the TO.

People have to report the store obviously. And it can be hard to figure out.

34 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

People have to report the store obviously. And it can be hard to figure out.

What is the worst that can happen? That store obviously does not want to do a tournament. Maybe next time he gets no kit and so no extra cash of ebay. It is not like FFG could drag them to court.