Can someone explain why someone would want a needle pistol. Looking at its stats and effects while it could be damaging a standard thug with minimal armor can negate 40-50% of its base damage. The fact that it fires very quietly is nice but its damage potential seems so small that any advantage it has does not justify its cost. Am I missing something or have others found them wanting as well. I have considered maybe altering the toxic rules to make the weapon more justifiable.
Needle pistols
Some of the toxins from the GM's kit make them worthwhile, especially when you can make your own.
And then take in to account Called shots.
Aim for that unarmoured area (usually head) and thats no armour at all to take in to account.
Called Shot, meh small de-buff for some great Fluff Freindly weapon Fun Times..
Toxic, can be used for stun/sleep darts, fun fluff, quiet with out needing a silencer, and a few other reasons.
Also, don't forget that the Needler and Needle Pistols are accurate. I'd consider giving at least the Needler the rules for the possible extra damage from it's accurate quality. That can make it much more worth it. I might even consider giving that to the Needle pistol as it is Exotic class instead of Pistol but that's your call.
And as others have said, you can load up considerably better toxins in the darts, as well as some that are useful for capturing as well as killing.
numb3rc said:
Also, don't forget that the Needler and Needle Pistols are accurate. I'd consider giving at least the Needler the rules for the possible extra damage from it's accurate quality. That can make it much more worth it. I might even consider giving that to the Needle pistol as it is Exotic class instead of Pistol but that's your call.
And as others have said, you can load up considerably better toxins in the darts, as well as some that are useful for capturing as well as killing.
Consider? If I'm not mistaken, the errata'd rules for Accurate automatically give them the possible extra damage. Unless, of course, you have house-ruled differently.
But in any case, that makes Needler weapons, including the pistol version, incredibly effective tools of quiet, discreet assassination. In fact, the Needle Pistol is small (easily concealable), nearly silent, and loaded with the right poison, only needs to inflict a single wound to kill. What's not to like?
Sister Cat said:
Also, don't forget that the Needler and Needle Pistols are accurate. I'd consider giving at least the Needler the rules for the possible extra damage from it's accurate quality. That can make it much more worth it. I might even consider giving that to the Needle pistol as it is Exotic class instead of Pistol but that's your call.
Yup. According to the Errata, for bonus damage (+1d10 per full 2DoS to a maximum of +2d10 damage), the weapon must be a Basic-class weapon with the Accurate rules. Despite being an Exotic weapon, the armoury list shows the Needle Rifle as "Basic" under its class column. So it gets the benefits.
As for the Needle Pistol, however, RAW-wise it doesn't get the bonus damage. However, it's a GM's call for that and I wouldn't have a problem either way. And it still keeps every other quirk of its Basic counterpart.
Keep in mind that the sleek and sexy needle pistol only needs to inflict ONE wound for the Toxic trait to kick in. That's another 1D10 damage bypassing toughness and armour! Nothing at all to sneer at. Plus if you lack the skill to place the darts into those tiny cracks and joints in light personal body armour (or just shoot the fleshy parts!) then you really should not be using one anyways.
Crappy weapon choice for a Hive-Cabbie. Awesome weapon choice for an Assassin or "operative of shady intent".
Sister Cat said:
numb3rc said:
Also, don't forget that the Needler and Needle Pistols are accurate. I'd consider giving at least the Needler the rules for the possible extra damage from it's accurate quality. That can make it much more worth it. I might even consider giving that to the Needle pistol as it is Exotic class instead of Pistol but that's your call.
And as others have said, you can load up considerably better toxins in the darts, as well as some that are useful for capturing as well as killing.
Consider? If I'm not mistaken, the errata'd rules for Accurate automatically give them the possible extra damage. Unless, of course, you have house-ruled differently.
But in any case, that makes Needler weapons, including the pistol version, incredibly effective tools of quiet, discreet assassination. In fact, the Needle Pistol is small (easily concealable), nearly silent, and loaded with the right poison, only needs to inflict a single wound to kill. What's not to like?
Whoops, I wrote that a bit wrong. But by RAW, Pistol (Exotic) doesn't get any extra damage from aiming but Basic (Exotic) does. Extra damage only for the Needler. However, as the Needle Pistol isn't quite a normal pistol, it might be reasonable to allow it the extra damage. After all, the Widower, another Needler, can be used as a pistol or a basic weapon depending if the stock's on it.
The trouble is that although the Needle Pistol is very small and quiet that using the standard poisions it's really not all worth the skills for it as well as the expensive ammo. However, pop some Ars Imperialis Mortua in there and things get different quite quickly.
numb3rc said:
Sister Cat said:
numb3rc said:
Also, don't forget that the Needler and Needle Pistols are accurate. I'd consider giving at least the Needler the rules for the possible extra damage from it's accurate quality. That can make it much more worth it. I might even consider giving that to the Needle pistol as it is Exotic class instead of Pistol but that's your call.
And as others have said, you can load up considerably better toxins in the darts, as well as some that are useful for capturing as well as killing.
Consider? If I'm not mistaken, the errata'd rules for Accurate automatically give them the possible extra damage. Unless, of course, you have house-ruled differently.
But in any case, that makes Needler weapons, including the pistol version, incredibly effective tools of quiet, discreet assassination. In fact, the Needle Pistol is small (easily concealable), nearly silent, and loaded with the right poison, only needs to inflict a single wound to kill. What's not to like?
Whoops, I wrote that a bit wrong. But by RAW, Pistol (Exotic) doesn't get any extra damage from aiming but Basic (Exotic) does. Extra damage only for the Needler. However, as the Needle Pistol isn't quite a normal pistol, it might be reasonable to allow it the extra damage. After all, the Widower, another Needler, can be used as a pistol or a basic weapon depending if the stock's on it.
The trouble is that although the Needle Pistol is very small and quiet that using the standard poisions it's really not all worth the skills for it as well as the expensive ammo. However, pop some Ars Imperialis Mortua in there and things get different quite quickly.
Oops!
It seems I was over-zealous. I missed the Pistol not getting the extra damage part. *Mumble, grumble* But still, that still makes Basic Needlers many kinds of scary.
And well worth the Exotic Weapon Proficiency Talent ... at least, if you are a behind the scenes, covert kind of character.
The NP also has a nice intimidation factor. "Oops, the guy has a needle pistol, the weapon of choice of Assassins. Who knows what horrible poison its darts carry ? I'd better not **** with him".
Seriously folks, regarding the needle pistol try to keep a basic motto in mind:
"Good enough for the Eversor Temple, good enough for YOU!"
If the Emperor's own personal psycho-slaughterhouses-on-legs find them useful then surely some lesser assassin will too. Behold the Executor pistol: A Combi-Bolt/Needle pistol used by assassins of the Eversor Temple of the Officio Assassinorum.
ZillaPrime said:
Seriously folks, regarding the needle pistol try to keep a basic motto in mind:
"Good enough for the Eversor Temple, good enough for YOU!"
If the Emperor's own personal psycho-slaughterhouses-on-legs find them useful then surely some lesser assassin will too. Behold the Executor pistol: A Combi-Bolt/Needle pistol used by assassins of the Eversor Temple of the Officio Assassinorum.
One comment - Eversor's 'Needle Pistol' deals 1d10+5 R, Pen 3. Major difference to standard needle pistol, don't you think?
Mrakvampire said:
ZillaPrime said:
Seriously folks, regarding the needle pistol try to keep a basic motto in mind:
"Good enough for the Eversor Temple, good enough for YOU!"
If the Emperor's own personal psycho-slaughterhouses-on-legs find them useful then surely some lesser assassin will too. Behold the Executor pistol: A Combi-Bolt/Needle pistol used by assassins of the Eversor Temple of the Officio Assassinorum.
One comment - Eversor's 'Needle Pistol' deals 1d10+5 R, Pen 3. Major difference to standard needle pistol, don't you think?
Mrakvampire said:
One comment - Eversor's 'Needle Pistol' deals 1d10+5 R, Pen 3. Major difference to standard needle pistol, don't you think?
The toxin's are so potent that the target needs to test Toughness even if they take no damage from the initial hit, or they take the toxic damage. That's a major difference also.
-=Brother Praetus=-
Bombernoy said:
I don't have the book but it sounds like you gave the damage for the bolter half of the weapon. And if its the case you also have the wrong damage. The evesor has a typo in its description where its listed simply as d10, it should be 2d10.
No it is needle part. Bolter part is much more potent in damage.
lots of GMs are ruling a max of 1D10 or use D5 instead for accurate pistols
It is a very common Houserule that Accurate Pistols get D5s for well placed shots, just like Accurate Basics get D10s.
Zelsior said:
Can someone explain why someone would want a needle pistol.
Style.
Brother Praetus said:
Mrakvampire said:
One comment - Eversor's 'Needle Pistol' deals 1d10+5 R, Pen 3. Major difference to standard needle pistol, don't you think?
The toxin's are so potent that the target needs to test Toughness even if they take no damage from the initial hit, or they take the toxic damage. That's a major difference also.
-=Brother Praetus=-
And the Eversors weapon has a ROF of S/3/- instead of the regular needle pistol's S/-/-.making it not only much more powerful, but ideal for ensuring a whole room full of dudes are proper dead.
Well, it's a big Galaxy out there, and with the large gaps in peformance between the 'regular-needle-pistol' and the Eversor's 'make-lots-of-dudes-real-frakkin-dead-like' version I think there is some room for an alternative model to exist somewhere.
How about:
Cadence Arms Combat Needle Pistol was originally designed for Starship Captains and Officers (as a more stylish alternative to large calibre low velocity pistols) to give them an extremely potent weapon that would less likely to damage equipment and remain highly lethal. The very rare pattern has been picked up rather enthusiastically by Assassins, especially those from a Void Born background.
S/2/-, 1D10+3, Pen2, Clip8, Reload 1, Toxic, Very Rare (Fires bigger needles, and has enhanced capacitors allowing a higher cycle rate).