3 hours ago, rebellightworks said:

Instead of trying to balance a unit, trust that the Playtesters and Developers did their jobs right and try to find what techniques THEY used to handle this unit. Personally, I just shoot the crap out of them. They also kinda hate stun tokens.

Cynical statement: Also consider that FFG wants to sell newer units, so they have an incentive to make units that either a) look better so people buy them, or b) are actually better so people buy them.

3 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Cynical statement: Also consider that FFG wants to sell newer units, so they have an incentive to make units that either a) look better so people buy them, or b) are actually better so people buy them.

Pragmatic statement: FFG realizes that by releasing a healthy game, they will have a much greater revenue stream overall.

Follow-up pragmatic statement: Reducing manufacturing and logistics costs actually makes the company more money than increasing gross sales. This is my belief why yellow-sized upgrade cards are gone and the boxes changed.

Observation: This thread is all over the place, but people are genuinely respectful. Amazing.

(okay, okay, I just wanted to talk like HK-47, too ?)

Someone fix the forum so you can delete posts, please...

55 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Cynical statement: Also consider that FFG wants to sell newer units, so they have an incentive to make units that either a) look better so people buy them, or b) are actually better so people buy them.

Right now, there's plenty of room for c) provide more options for players to use. Down the road, that may well change. But I think there's still room for feature creep.

In addition to power creep, of course. I'm not going to deny that's an incentive, as well.

4 hours ago, rebellightworks said:

I see what you did there, bring the thread back to the original (kinda) topic. Especially since the OP is an advertisement for a youtube video.

Do I think Spined Threshers are good? Yes.

Do I think Spined Threshers break the game? Not at al

I think that people are screaming the sky is falling. Remember when Obcasium's gauntlet was released? Remember the thread where the OP claimed it killed the entire list by itself? Remember how it worked out that O's Gauntlet only actually did 3 wounds over the whole game? Sky was falling, ban the cheap artifact that was going to break the game.

Instead of trying to balance a unit, trust that the Playtesters and Developers did their jobs right and try to find what techniques THEY used to handle this unit. Personally, I just shoot the crap out of them. They also kinda hate stun tokens.

So, keeping in mind that, even though I've been playing Runewars since its release, I've not always frequented these forums...

I, and everyone else in my local group, never saw a problem with oathsworn, even when they were the only cav in the game.

Some members of my group saw Obcasium's Guantlet as too strong for its cost for about 2 games. After they realized it's hard to get it to proc on more than one target in a full game and you can only bring one, no one complained about it.

No one in my group saw a problem with Spined Threshers until we had played numerous games with/against them. Now we (and much of the community) agree that they don't just outclass other siege units, but are overpowered at their cost, especially the 2x1.

I am interested in seeing these "The sky is falling!" threads about Oathsworn and Obcasiums from back in the day... As it is I see very little similarity in those examples you brought up and the current situation with STs.

I personally do not think the sky is falling. I do not think the game is broken. Just noticeably imbalanced. Spined Threshers are too strong at their cost and there is already plenty to support that. It is not knee jerk. There is no need to wait further. I have developed this opinion from 7+ months of playing against them.

2 hours ago, rebellightworks said:

Pragmatic statement: FFG realizes that by releasing a healthy game, they will have a much greater revenue stream overall.

Follow-up pragmatic statement: Reducing manufacturing and logistics costs actually makes the company more money than increasing gross sales. This is my belief why yellow-sized upgrade cards are gone and the boxes changed.

I agree that this sentiment makes sense, but after watching all the power creep in X-Wing, it's hard not to hold a critical eye to what FFG is producing. Playtesters only have so much time, and in the end, they don't get to make any decisions anyway. How did anyone think the Punishing One expansion was a good idea? I'm hoping nothing like that happens in Runewars Miniatures Game, but I'm not going to put blind trust in the design process. I doubt that anything was designes and tested with future expansions in mind. Maybe things are tested like an LCG cycle, but I would be surprised even at that.

(Nothing against you playtesters out there.)

But again, I'm not saying the game is in a really bad spot or has tons of flaws. I just get really skeptical when people say to trust the designers and playtesting process.

I have no complaints with threshers as a whole. The unit is solid, and is by far the best melee seige unit in the game, but not the best seige unit for general use. They are a bit undercosted in the 2x1 which does bother me a little. It is also not completely realistic to say all they do is melee, as they hand out potentially half a dozen panics per game. Panic is devastating when triggered properly. All of this is fine though.

The only thing I don't like are their upgrades. Devouring maw looks better on paper than in practice, so not too upset by that one. Scuttling horror would be fine except it needs resequencing to before dials are set. This card is a bit more power creep than I'd like, but time will tell if it's really so bad or not.

If uthuk are op, and I'm of the opinion that they won't be in two weeks, the only things needed are some sequencing changes.

Scuttling thresher: change to before dials are set.

Ravos: change insatiable hunger to during the end phase.

Rippers: clarify that a rippers mandatory move is part of its activation so they can't leapfrog terrain. Or, errata leaving terrain to say you must place the center of the back rank against the terrain.