darthmax said:

Would have said the same after first game with Dark Cultist, but after that she never grew up powerful as in the first appearance. Still she gets a fair winning score (2 wins in 5 games).

Assassin and Ogre Chieftain seem to me the only real overpowered Characters in this game, the second looking ominous since he won 2 games out of 2 played. Statistics can change in the next games but since he's pretty safe in the Dungeon (give him the Cross and he's definitely done) I think the only way to tone him down a bit is to remove Dungeon. Removing Dungeon also creates some problems to Assassin and other Characters that rely very much on killing.

Prophetess is the base set Character with less appearances, only 3 games played but 2 wins. The strangest thing is that the Prophetess won both times being one of the weakest Characters in terms of Strength.

Now that I've begun to talk too much, you'll receive my 4ER game stats (should be 25 games, number of players varying from 2 to 6, but average is 4):

1. Ghoul 4 wins in 7 games

2. Wizard & Assassin 3 wins in 6 games

3. Ogre Chieftain 2 wins in 2 games

4. Troll & Prophetess 2 wins in 3 games

5. Dark Cultist 2 wins in 5 games

6. Warrior 2 wins in 6 games

7. Amazon & Leprechaun 1 win in 3 games

8. Sage 1 win in 4 games

9. Monk 1 win in 5 games

10. Minstrel & Knight 1 win in 6 games

Characters not appearing here simply never won. I'm impressed that valuable Characters such as Sorceress, Druid, Gypsy, Swashbuckler and Gladiator never had a single victory, most of them having played 4 or more games. But this is my Talisman and the Ghoul as a top scorer is still beyond my understanding.

My top 10 characters i like the most at this moment are:

1 Vampiress

2: Swashbucker

3 Dark Cultist

4 Prophetess

5 Black Witch

6 Gladiator

7 Leprechaun

8 Alchemist

9 Philosopher

10 Excorcist

The_Warlock said:

I am not a big fan of the Ghoul's character, but he has some good abilities I think. He is not very popular and that actually make me like playing him sometimes. He has won the most games he has participated in our grupe as well.

cheers

I think the two most surprising characters, at least for me are Elf and Merchant. Both are now 5-11 after 16 appearances, putting them just below the top-notch characters in terms of win-loss. Neither has that much going for them in terms of abilities, Elf is pretty much Woods-hopping, hoping for stats (Evade does help), while the Merchant's only real ability is trade, other than that he's 2/4 char with 5 Gold.

My top 10 characters i like the most at this moment are:

1: Swashbucker

2: Dark Cultist

3: Prophetess

4: Black Witch

5: Gladiator

6: Philosopher

7 Vampiress

8: Leprechaun

9: Druid

10: Warlock

1: swashbuckler

2: Dark Cultist

3: Prophetess

4: Black Witch

5: Gladiator

6: Philosopher

7 Vampiress

8 Amazone/ Assassin

9: Valkyrie

10: Highlander

Just a quick update after the Highland release and subsequent games (35 with 4ER so far):

1. Ghoul 4 wins in 7 games

2. Ogre Chieftain 3 wins in 3 games

3. Troll 3 wins in 5 games

4. Assassin & Prophetess 3 wins in 6 games

5. Wizard 3 wins in 7 games

6. Sage 2 wins in 5 games

7. Dark Cultist & Warrior 2 wins in 6 games

8. Sprite 1 win in 1 game

9. Alchemist & Vampiress 1 win in 2 games

10. Leprechaun, Necromancer & Rogue 1 win in 4 games

11. Amazon & Monk 1 win in 5 games

12. Minstrel & Knight 1 win in 6 games

The most interesting characters at this moment are:

1: Swashbuckler

2: Dark Cultist

3: Martyress

4: Assassin

5: Prophetess

6: Highlander

7: Philosopher

8: Conjurer

9: Black Witch/ Amazone

10: Gladiator

@The_Warlock

Are there also people in your games who let the character die if they don't like the character, or they have bad luck with it?

I always try to keep them alive, but my opponent sacrifice his characters sometimes by going to the dungeon to soon...

I actually don't like that.

This has happen in my last game.. ( 3 characters died in the game, and the fourth character has just lose the game..)

Velhart said:

There are situations where someone desires his/her Character's death, but usually we try to make the best out of our Character. We allow to draw 2 Characters and choose one to play, the second being the replacement in case of premature death. This house rule avoids most of the situations you describe, because 1) you won't dislike your chosen Character; 2) you know what the replacement is, and you've already decided he's your second choice. Sometimes Characters are both very good or very bad; in the first case, it might result in the player being less careful than usual and losing the Character early on; in the second case, the player usually begins the game with low expectations and generally ends up more satisfied than what he figured out. Talisman is more enjoyable if your expectations are low.

I take the time to update the statistics from my previous post (now 53 total games played with 4ER):

1) Prophetess 5 wins in 9 games

2) Ogre Chieftain 4 wins in 4 games (Character banned after the 4th game)

3) Ghoul 4 wins in 7 games

4) Troll 3 wins in 6 games

5) Assassin & Sage 3 wins in 7 games

6) Wizard 3 wins in 9 games

7) Fire Wizard 2 wins in 2 games (possibly broken with Dragon Expansion)

8) Sprite 2 wins in 5 games

9) Leprechaun 2 wins in 6 games

10) Dark Cultist 2 wins in 7 games

11) Warrior 2 wins in 8 games

12) Cleric & Conjurer 1 win in 2 games (Conjurer possibly broken)

13) Magus, Valkyrie & Vampiress 1 win in 4 games

14) Alchemist, Dread Knight, Highlander, Necromancer & Rogue 1 win in 5 games

15) Amazon, Knight & Warlock 1 win in 6 games

16) Monk & Sorceress 1 win in 7 games

17) Druid, Dwarf & Minstrel 1 win in 8 games

18) Dragon Rider 0 wins in 1 game

19) Chivalric Knight, Dragon Priestess & Minotaur 0 wins in 2 games

20) Gladiator, Gypsy & Priest 0 wins in 6 games

21) Elf, Merchant & Swashbuckler 0 wins in 7 games

22) Philosopher & Thief 0 wins in 8 games

Dragon Hunter n/a (not yet played)

Well I'm sorry to say that I hate the German Mephisto characters as they were officially printed. Poor design of characters, unbalanced special abilities, Strength, Craft, & fate values unbalanced, different text font size than FFG characters, just a mess I'm afraid. Sorry it's my opinion, but it is an accurate description of them!

Ell.

The_Warlock said:

Oke, so it happens also in your games, that players want some characters dead.

You have some nice idea's there to draw 2 characters, choose one, and keep the second for replacement.

The reason why i came up with this discussion is that if players want the character dead, then that character gets a negative point on the status list.

For example, your wizard has 3 wins in 9 games, but in some of those games, the player has sacrifice the wizard, and it has nothing to do with the character. But he still get a 9 on the list.

A list is nice to see which characters can win the most, but if people will sacrifice them.. ( you know my point

That's what i dislike about it. But talisman is random, so everything can happen

I write those win and lose statistics on a piece of paper just for the fun.

I can see with which characters i have won and lose. So it's nice to know

Velhart said:

It's true, I posted the list with only games played and wins, but I also track if a Character wins or loses as a replacement or if he dies mid-game.

It is a table similar to the ones Dam used to publish on the forum. I liked it and gladly made the same table for myself.

Character Games Wins Losses Midgame death Wins as repl. Loses as repl.
Alchemist 5 1 4 0 0 2
Amazon 6 1 5 1 0 0
Assassin 7 3 4 1 0 0
Chivalric Knight 2 0 2 1 0 0
Cleric 2 1 1 0 0 0
Conjurer 2 1 1 0 0 0
Dark Cultist 7 2 5 3 0 1
Dragon Hunter 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dragon Priestess 2 0 2 1 0 1
Dragon Rider 1 0 1 0 0 0
Dread Knight 5 1 4 2 0 1
Druid 8 1 7 0 0 1
Dwarf 8 1 7 1 0 1
Elf 7 0 7 1 0 4
Fire Wizard 2 2 0 0 0 0
Ghoul 7 4 3 1 0 1
Gladiator 6 0 6 2 0 0
Gypsy 6 0 6 2 0 2
Highlander 5 1 4 0 0 2
Knight 6 1 5 0 0 2
Leprechaun 6 2 4 2 0 1
Magus 4 1 3 0 0 0
Merchant 7 0 7 2 0 0
Minotaur 2 0 2 2 0 0
Minstrel 8 1 7 3 0 0
Monk 7 1 6 2 0 2
Necromancer 5 1 4 1 0 1
Ogre Chieftain 4 4 0 0 1 0
Philosopher 8 0 8 2 0 3
Priest 6 0 6 2 0 0
Prophetess 9 5 4 2 0 0
Rogue 5 1 4 3 0 0
Sage 7 3 4 0 0 1
Sorceress 7 1 6 0 0 1
Sprite 5 2 3 1 1 0
Swashbuckler 7 0 7 2 0 2
Thief 8 0 8 1 0 3
Troll 6 3 3 1 0 1
Valkyrie 4 1 3 2 0 1
Vampiress 4 1 3 1 0 0
Warrior 8 2 6 2 0 0
Warlock 6 1 5 2 0 2
Wizard 9 3 6 0 0 0

This is the big picture. Not meaningful as it seems, but a little more interesting.

Velhart said:

The purpose of this statistics are only to remember; with few numbers, they are not very worth considering. I cannot say if a Rogue that won 1 game out of 4 and died midgame in the others is worse of a Thief that lost 8 games, 3 as a replacement and died only once midgame. But Prophetess, Ogre Chieftain, Assassin, Fire Wizard and others can be considered strong Characters. The Wizard should have won more, I remember that once a player could have won and preferred harassing another player just for fun, allowing another to win in his place. Talisman can be like this, sometimes.

@The_Warlock

Well, i don't see the wizard as a very strong character.

He is pretty boring now.

Most expansion characters has become more interesting to play.

If the wizard get stuck with 1 spell card, then he can do nothing else.

The wizard was played in our first 2 games of talisman, with the base game only. and won both games

He is not bad for a base game character, but now with all expansions, he is not one of my first choice anymore.

PS: Nice list.

It´s amazing that the swashbuckler has lose all 7 games.

I see him as a very strong character.

I think that the amazone is also very good.

It seems that your philosopher is not so good in your games

Velhart said:

The only Character I consider boring is the Elf. Too fixed strategy and high probability of disruption.

Wizard is the best Character that can do psychic combat, which is an ability that has become rarer and rarer with the expansions. This is why he's always feared by others and never at discomfort in his games; I've never seen the Wizard in difficult in a game, even though he did not always win. He has no distinctive abilities, though.

Velhart said:

Swashbuckler is very funny to play, but ultimately his ability is double-edged. You draw lots of cards but you may find a lot more threats. It is true that most of the games this Character (considering he was played by different people) was not very lucky. Most of the Characters have won less games than they deserved and I think that about 60% of victories in Talisman were actually "stolen" with a sudden outburst of luck. I lost dozens of games because someone drew the critical card one turn before I got my victory; sometimes I managed to do the same. Leprechaun, a quite solid Character in the hands of others, scored his 2 midgame deaths when I was playing with him; both deaths were Reaper deaths, double 1. I don't want to play with that Character again because I'm convinced that for some superstitious reason I have something wrong with him. I'd gladly play the Priest instead (by the way, he's interesting to play considering the low expectations concept I was telling you some posts ago).

Philosopher is another Character I strongly dislike, but my friends like him (they're more lucky than me with this game) even if they don't have a shot at winning. Very similar evaluations go for the Thief (funny but still a loser).

I'm a fairly new Talismaner.
got core, dungeon and also newly got reaper and city expansion.

With 11 games below my belt, and one mid game death, I got the following stats, I've also done a lot of the new digital talisman on Steam, so I got a good feel for most regular+dungeon characters.

Swashbuckler 3-1
Cat burglar 1-0
Thief 1-1
Propethess 0-1
Dwarf 0-1
Priest 0-1
Bounty Hunter 0-0-1 (had Craft 17 before becoming toad, and then killed )
Wizard 1-0* (replacement for Bounty hunter)


I usually try to focus on getting to the crown as fast as possible, middle region is the place to be so u can draw lot's of cards and hopefully some spirngs of craft/strenght early so you can keep them to yourself.

Luck is always of the essence ofcourse, I had a bounty hunter with a spellbook and scribe, with a warhorse and finding the spell "craft" he effectivly gained 1 craft eatch round(had it not been for merchant guild alternative ending he would have won),toading saved the other players from that madhouse bounthy hunter, but the wizard went in grabbed the dead bouty hunters stuff, toaded the others and grabbed an alchemist and lot'za cash. Still, of the ones i've played wizard is good even though it's luck.

Some characters are just plain evil to pick, like the Dark Cultist. Kill them before they get to move. So my ranking is based a bit on how big a "KILL-me sign" u put on yourself aswell.

Id rank them:
1. Swashbuckler (he sneaks up on you with extra cards and turns and he usually get's what he want's at the Tavern.)
2. Dwarf ( a lot of fate and craft rushing into the inner region is soo sweet)
3. Gladiator( if he gets a big band of followers he is nasty, watch out for that hag)

Luck is always of the essence ofcourse, I had a bounty hunter with a spellbook and scribe, with a warhorse and finding the spell "craft" he effectivly gained 1 craft eatch round

Just checking, but you do know Craft Spell does NOT help boost Warhorse in any way, shape or form, right? Warhorse boosts via Craft value aka starting/printed Craft, so if your printed Craft is 3, but your Craft 20, you still only get +3.

I will say, they need another Elf character(High Elf would be nice). The one we have is pretty boring....I play the elf, except for a few games when I played a Druid. My friend always plays a Dwarf and the rest of our group (6 others) generally plays anything evil. Anytime someone gets powerful or there is someone bragging about their character, you are sure to die. This does not help in expediting the game if we are allowing a person to restart....

We allow everyone to pick their character; If you died first in the last game, you get first pick. In about 30 games with the elf I have managed victory 4 times. The Dwarf has about 15 wins in 30 games. Most of the time we play by elimination unless your character dies in the first 10 turns because the game can literally go on for hours and hours. The Assassin has won twice I believe because we all hate the Assassin....he must die quickly.