1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

Admittedly, it's pretty strange, but we have to remember one thing: The Resistance isn't a major force in the galaxy. I doubt the Rebels used Clone Wars ere vessels by choice. It was probably the one intact assault craft they could get their hands on. It'd be like someone actually using an early jet bomber as an assault craft (SU-27, A-10) Personally, I would have tried to scrounge one or two B-Wing MKIIs instead on creating Uglies, but I also don't know what they had.

None of this is real, it's just a (bad) story someone in Hollywood made up. Either they really didn't think this through and the b17 was a dumb thing to have in the movie, or Leia has a reason for wanting large scale carpet bombers in her hangers. Bombers that require having already acquired air superiority and are useful at bombing defenseless targets only.

Stupid and impractical ship design, or Leia was kicked out of the senate for a reason? You be the judge.

5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

None of this is real, it's just a (bad) story someone in Hollywood made up. Either they really didn't think this through and the b17 was a dumb thing to have in the movie, or Leia has a reason for wanting large scale carpet bombers in her hangers. Bombers that require having already acquired air superiority and are useful at bombing defenseless targets only.

Stupid and impractical ship design, or Leia was kicked out of the senate for a reason? You be the judge.

Bit of a false dichotomy don't you think?

Perhaps the resistance used them because that is all they could get? There are stories/books written, which you will no doubt ignore, that explain all about the starfortress.

I get you don't like the ship, which is fine, but some of us do.

6 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Bit of a false dichotomy don't you think?

Perhaps the resistance used them because that is all they could get? There are stories/books written, which you will no doubt ignore, that explain all about the starfortress.

I get you don't like the ship, which is fine, but some of us do.

Eh, these things should have been half the size and more like strike bombers than carpet bombers. I don't get off on hating TLJ, I'm just disappointed by it and wish that it hadn't been so boring and nonsensical.

42 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Eh, these things should have been half the size and more like strike bombers than carpet bombers. I don't get off on hating TLJ, I'm just disappointed by it and wish that it hadn't been so boring and nonsensical.

The problem I have here is it is less of a “should have” and more of a “*I* would have preferred..”

18 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Bit of a false dichotomy don't you think?

Perhaps the resistance used them because that is all they could get? There are stories/books written, which you will no doubt ignore, that explain all about the starfortress.

I get you don't like the ship, which is fine, but some of us do.

Exactly!

17 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

The problem I have here is it is less of a “should have” and more of a “*I* would have preferred..”

I agree with this. I would have preferred a B-Wing analog, but I can understand why they would be forced to use a heavy bomber.

57 minutes ago, sf1raptor said:

Exactly!

I agree with this. I would have preferred a B-Wing analog, but I can understand why they would be forced to use a heavy bomber.

Eh, they could have designed any ship they wanted to fill this roll, they chose one that doesn't make sense for the forces that would be using it. I'm sure someone will write a story retconning where they got the things and why they are using an inappropriate craft for their needs, but it was still a poor decision. Of course as far as TLJ is concerned, this is an extremely minor issue.

On 7/20/2018 at 8:52 AM, skotothalamos said:

yes. and everyone on the Dreadnaught is magnetically guided to the floor. And everyone on the Millennium Falcon. And the entire Rebel fleet. Hmm... wait. Maybe they have artificial gravity in Star Wars? And maybe an object that is accelerated "downward" will continue in that direction until some other force acts on it, so the bombs don't need any special technology to do exactly what they did, but a bunch of Star Wars nerds who think they're way cleverer than they actually are decided to make a ruckus over one of the more emotionally satisfying scenes in the whole ******* movie. God I hate this fandom sometimes.

Well, the scene is obviously based on the large scale bombing runs in WWII, which makes sense, so are all the fighter and capital ship battles. Except, I can't find any examples of one B-17 being shot down, and causing a chain reaction across the rest of the formation... How the bombs are dropped is pointless, when the design of the ship is so unbelievably faulty, the designer should be executed as a first order spy.

As for most emotionally satisfying scene, that was the credits, because you realized the movie was over and you didn't have to sit through any more Mary Sue fanfic....

So there are a few things to know about carpet bombing and the type of warfare they are used in, and what sort of warfare the resistance wages.

Here are the things to consider:

Artistic intentions - People want SW space combat to evoke feelings of WWII, hence the way the ships act and some of them look.

The function and use of different classes of crafts - Some ships are used to accomplish certain objectives, and are useful in certain situations

In universe explanation of factions and their strategy - In SW the various factions have varying, widely different doctrines.

Let's look at the ship.

It does not consider 2 of the 3 mentioned criteria.

In it's function, the Resistance Bomber is not something that the Resistance would often use. Even if there are explanations for why they have it, and why the craft exists, the Resistance is a small faction, performing smaller scale operations, and not planetary invasions, or all out warfare. Carpet bombing is not something they should do, tactics wise, simply because it does not fit their goals.

It also fails to account for the military doctrine of the resistance. They are the good guys. This is a weapon of mass destruction. If looking at the hulking resistance bomber, you are not reminded of the various deathmachines the Empire had in the EU days, look again. It might have curved edges and a rotund form, but so does the Deathstar. This is a ship that somebody would've written as the passion project for an Imperial Moff who really doesn't like cities.

I don't hate the last jedi. And sure, everything CAN be explained in books, comics, as was often the case in the EU. That doesn't make it okay. Yes, the resistance might have had access to a polar ice cap remover bomber, but that is just a contrived way of trying to explain why they had a stupid ship in the first place.

A great design would've accounted for all 3 criteria, and you could just believe that the ship is a useful part of the resistance military, that can be employed in the types of situation they would encounter. There wouldn't be a need for a comic book to explain their origin. (There could be one, but instead of contrived bullsh˘t we could get like... a real interesting story)

I just think that defending the parts that are obviously lacking, is futile. There are a lot of choices that make sense in the movie, and further the Saga in a healthy way. And there are less than stellar ones.

We can acknowledge each, and appreciate the good parts, while making fun of the dumb parts. Like we do with all SW films.

None of us think about the "I don't like sand" speech as the paragon of romantic dialogues. But Battle of the Heroes is an amazing soundtrack. Jar-Jar was stupid, Ewan McGregor is a treasure. The Imperials are beaten by Ewoks, but OH MY GOD, That throne room scene.

It's fine to like TLJ. I do.

And it's also fine to dislike TLJ. I do.

LIKE AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING WITH THE ABILITY TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SHADES.

4 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

So there are a few things to know about carpet bombing and the type of warfare they are used in, and what sort of warfare the resistance wages.

Here are the things to consider:

Artistic intentions - People want SW space combat to evoke feelings of WWII, hence the way the ships act and some of them look.

The function and use of different classes of crafts - Some ships are used to accomplish certain objectives, and are useful in certain situations

In universe explanation of factions and their strategy - In SW the various factions have varying, widely different doctrines.

Let's look at the ship.

It does not consider 2 of the 3 mentioned criteria.

In it's function, the Resistance Bomber is not something that the Resistance would often use. Even if there are explanations for why they have it, and why the craft exists, the Resistance is a small faction, performing smaller scale operations, and not planetary invasions, or all out warfare. Carpet bombing is not something they should do, tactics wise, simply because it does not fit their goals.

It also fails to account for the military doctrine of the resistance. They are the good guys. This is a weapon of mass destruction. If looking at the hulking resistance bomber, you are not reminded of the various deathmachines the Empire had in the EU days, look again. It might have curved edges and a rotund form, but so does the Deathstar. This is a ship that somebody would've written as the passion project for an Imperial Moff who really doesn't like cities.

I don't hate the last jedi. And sure, everything CAN be explained in books, comics, as was often the case in the EU. That doesn't make it okay. Yes, the resistance might have had access to a polar ice cap remover bomber, but that is just a contrived way of trying to explain why they had a stupid ship in the first place.

A great design would've accounted for all 3 criteria, and you could just believe that the ship is a useful part of the resistance military, that can be employed in the types of situation they would encounter. There wouldn't be a need for a comic book to explain their origin. (There could be one, but instead of contrived bullsh˘t we could get like... a real interesting story)

I just think that defending the parts that are obviously lacking, is futile. There are a lot of choices that make sense in the movie, and further the Saga in a healthy way. And there are less than stellar ones.

We can acknowledge each, and appreciate the good parts, while making fun of the dumb parts. Like we do with all SW films.

None of us think about the "I don't like sand" speech as the paragon of romantic dialogues. But Battle of the Heroes is an amazing soundtrack. Jar-Jar was stupid, Ewan McGregor is a treasure. The Imperials are beaten by Ewoks, but OH MY GOD, That throne room scene.

It's fine to like TLJ. I do.

And it's also fine to dislike TLJ. I do.

LIKE AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING WITH THE ABILITY TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SHADES.

Not sure about its use in the EU but the best guess I could have for the craft was that it would fly into orbit and drop a large payload of supplies down to refugees, or people fighting against pirates or the FO. Is it a weak excuse and makes no mention of why the Resistance then has a metric ton of magnetic bombs/mines, well yes, yes it is. But then again, it doesn't explain why the Ninka, Holdo's former ship, has large nuke like bombs strapped to it likely to fall down onto some target below.

9 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

None  of us think about the "I don't  like sand" speech as the  parag  on of romantic dial  ogue  s   . 

How. Dare. You!!! GL is a true poet, he speaks to my soul!

15 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

How. Dare. You!!! GL is a true poet, he speaks to my soul!

Well then you are lost!!!