Name: Sato’s Salvation

Faction: Rebel

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault: Precision Strike

Defense: Fighter Ambush

Navigation: Superior Positions

MC80 Command Cruiser (106)

• Commander Sato (32)

• Adar Tallon (10)

• Fighter Coordination Team (3)

• Electronic Countermeasures (7)

• Leading Shots (4)

• XI7 Turbolasers (6)

= 168 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)

• Skilled First Officer (1)

• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)

• Salvation (7)

= 66 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

• Bomber Command Center (8)

= 26 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

• Toryn Farr (7)

= 25 Points

Squadrons:

• Jan Ors (19)

• 2x X-Wing Squadron (26)

• Norra Wexley (17)

• Gold Squadron (12)

• Ten Numb (19)

• Nym (21)

= 114 Points

Total Points: 399

Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? All advice is appreciated.

Well why does this lost need to be a Sato list? Sato lists generally are about throwing black and blue dice at red range to fish for critical effects and I see a bunch of red dice on this lists. Salvation doesn't want to change its red dice to anything as its ability only works on red cross.

Other then that I don't see any else really wrong solid big ship, decent support and the nice flotilla activation pad backed up by a versatile fighter wing

Salvations ability applies to all crits out of the frontarc.

Other than that i concur.

In my eyes this does rather seem like a Dodonna list

3 minutes ago, chr335 said:

its ability only works on red cross.

Incorrect. The word "red" does not appear on that card. Salvation works on any die showing a crit. So black dice become 3 damage (1 hit + 2 from the crit) - that being said, I don't think it's a gimmick good enough to build a list around.

As for the list, there's a few thoughts I would throw out:

MC80H1 without Engine Techs tend to die. You only have 1 speed 2 squad (mr. Numb), and everyone else is going the same speed, so you don't have a pressing need to push multiple ships speed 1 - Salvation could take the team to push your lonely little B-Wing if you really wanted - alternatively swap the X-Wings for YT-1300s so you get a bit more mileage out of the free moves.

Your squadron ball is a pretty generic bomber wing, though you might have difficulties taking full advantage of Sato's ability since no one goes faster than speed 3.

You only have 2 ships that can take advantage of Sato's ability - hardly seems worth it when you could take someone cheaper that would benefit more of your list (ex: Dodonna)

As for objectives, I'm always a little wary of precision strike - the free tokens you get aren't a super big advantage. I know it's boring - but Most Wanted is hard to beat when you're bringing flotillas.

Fighter Ambush is fine (though losing the deployment advantage can sting)

Superior positions is a good choice for this fleet.

Now, take all this with a grain of salt, I've had little luck with Sato myself, but it seems to me that you'd be better off just using Dodonna and fully embracing the bomber fleet. Sato works best with multiple small ships so you can leverage his swap-2-dice ability as much as possible. The rebel Larges just don't really work super well with him... except for the MC75...

Here's an example of a (Wave6) Sato fleet i've seen do very, very well locally (probably mostly due to the player's skill)

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Commander Sato (32)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 111 Points

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Flight Controllers (6)
= 78 Points

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Gunnery Team (7)
= 79 Points

Squadrons:
• Jan Ors (19)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
• 4 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (64)
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 396

You could make points-space to swap an assault frigate for a MC75 by swapping one of the other ones to a GR75 (combat! Turn that 1 blue to 1 black)

15 hours ago, JacobBodmer said:

so you don't have a pressing need to push multiple ships speed 1 - Salvation could take the team to push your lonely little B-Wing if you really wanted

True, but it is always advantageous to have all your squads going as fast as possible to increase their versatility, as you mentioned below. And FCT is a waste on the nebulon, as squads are probably never going to be near it, and the ability to increase the speed of three squads (plus ten numb) is a great, "why not?" ability.

15 hours ago, JacobBodmer said:

Your squadron ball is a pretty generic bomber wing, though you might have difficulties taking full advantage of Sato's ability since no one goes faster than speed 3.

True, even in light of the fact that Sato can "cheat" some squads to speed 4 (actually speed 4+ because distance 1 is slightly bigger than other speeds).

15 hours ago, JacobBodmer said:

As for objectives, I'm always a little wary of precision strike - the free tokens you get aren't a super big advantage. I know it's boring - but Most Wanted is hard to beat when you're bringing flotillas.

Fighter Ambush is fine (though losing the deployment advantage can sting)

Superior positions is a good choice for this fleet.

Precision strike is excellent for bomber lists as you can farm a 15 pt victory token every time a bomber deals a face up damage card. Fighter ambush does the exact same thing, but for every singe damage card.

15 hours ago, JacobBodmer said:

Here's an example of a (Wave6) Sato fleet i've seen do very, very well locally (probably mostly due to the player's skill)

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Commander Sato (32)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 111 Points

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Flight Controllers (6)
= 78 Points

Assault Frigate Mk2 B (72)
• Gunnery Team (7)
= 79 Points

Squadrons:
• Jan Ors (19)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
• 4 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (64)
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
= 128 Points

Total Points: 396

As for this list, it makes sense. An assault frigate "conga line" turns two of its three reds into blacks. Fighter wing is pretty standard, with the notable addition of Biggs. But for such a list, I would see far more benefit for making the ships all with gunnery team, ECM, and Ackbar as your commander, dropping some squads to make room for your extra upgrades.

15 hours ago, JacobBodmer said:

but it seems to me that you'd be better off just using Dodonna and fully embracing the bomber fleet

I am starting to agree with that more and more. Sato seems like a commander who does the job of somebody else, just for a higher price, much like Thrawn. There is often a strong case to take another, cheaper admiral, like Sloane or JerJerrod, over the more expensive, generalist Thrawn. And for Sato, its seems as well that it is more expedient to take the far cheaper Dodonna, or drop squads for the more expensive but more utile Ackbar.

1 hour ago, Mostly_Harmless_Species said:

But for such a list ... ... ... Ackbar as your commander

This is the crux of the problem with all Sato lists - there always seems to be someone else who could fit the commander chair better.

Heavy bomber investment? Dodonna gives them more, Rieekan keeps a key squad/carrier alive for a turn to make sure it does its job.

Ships that want to side-shuffle at red-range? Have you heard the good news of our fishy lord and savior Ackbar?

MSU fleets? Mothma and Cracken both say "hello"

What does a Sato list need? Well, first it needs lots of squadrons to proc his ability, so you probably need to sink at least 75+ points into squads.

He also wants a large number of ships, since you can only swap 2 dice per attack, you want as many 2-3die facings pointed at your foe as possible. Preferably red-die so you can black-die from longer range. Higher activation count also helps you set-up big ships for a nasty hen-pecking.

Since he wants to have a lot of squads, you need some way to push them, but the GR75 has somewhere between zero and nearly zero guns - making them inadequate for the task, further, the small 2/3 die ships that Sato really wants all have squadron 1 - and probably never want to be pulling a squad dial if they can help it, which pushes you towards rogues. Sounding like a Cracken list yet?

If Sato's ability was "Within distance 1 of a friendly squadron or another friendly ship", man would it really open up space for him.

In my experience 3 things Sato really likes are Han Solo, Tycho Celchu and MC-75s.

I was running Sato with salvation and liking QBTs and Engine Techs as a nice way to crank more dice out of that front arc.

On 7/13/2018 at 11:55 AM, JacobBodmer said:

This is the crux of the problem with all Sato lists - there always seems to be someone else who could fit the commander chair better.

Heavy bomber investment? Dodonna gives them more, Rieekan keeps a key squad/carrier alive for a turn to make sure it does its job.

Ships that want to side-shuffle at red-range? Have you heard the good news of our fishy lord and savior Ackbar?

MSU fleets? Mothma and Cracken both say "hello"

What does a Sato list need? Well, first it needs lots of squadrons to proc his ability, so you probably need to sink at least 75+ points into squads.

He also wants a large number of ships, since you can only swap 2 dice per attack, you want as many 2-3die facings pointed at your foe as possible. Preferably red-die so you can black-die from longer range. Higher activation count also helps you set-up big ships for a nasty hen-pecking.

Since he wants to have a lot of squads, you need some way to push them, but the GR75 has somewhere between zero and nearly zero guns - making them inadequate for the task, further, the small 2/3 die ships that Sato really wants all have squadron 1 - and probably never want to be pulling a squad dial if they can help it, which pushes you towards rogues. Sounding like a Cracken list yet?

If Sato's ability was "Within distance 1 of a friendly squadron or another friendly ship", man would it really open up space for him.

Gr 75 with flight commander and expanded hanger is a pretty sporty pusher.

Sato changes the squad game completely. The value of your squads hangs on presence and mobility. Things that can be crummy in other fleets get a new shine when Sato commands. Grit, Rogue, Bomber and being named Tycho are all great with Sato. Deep hull values and Jan's Brace lending are useful too. And Biggs. I think an X-wing ball with Biggs, Nora, Jan and maybe a jamming field would be hard to dislodge from the table. A squad token can do wonders at the right time when you need to "paint" something.

Fleet 5030 (399/400)
===================
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 + 45)
+ Commander Sato (32)
+ Slaved Turrets (6)
+ Salvation (7)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 14)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Disposable Capacitors (3)
+ Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 14)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Disposable Capacitors (3)
+ Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 14)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Disposable Capacitors (3)
+ Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 + 14)
+ Ordnance Experts (4)
+ Disposable Capacitors (3)
+ Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
Tycho Celchu (16)
Rogue Squadron (14)
2 x YT-1300 (2 x 13)
3 x A-wing Squadron (3 x 11)
2 x Z-95 Headhunter Squadron (2 x 7)

Ive been running this fleet (or variants) for a while now and it melts any ship that gets put in front of it.

Edit: bar vader cymoons

On 7/13/2018 at 4:55 PM, JacobBodmer said:

This is the crux of the problem with all Sato lists - there always seems to be someone else who could fit the commander chair better.

Heavy bomber investment? Dodonna gives them more, Rieekan keeps a key squad/carrier alive for a turn to make sure it does its job.

Ships that want to side-shuffle at red-range? Have you heard the good news of our fishy lord and savior Ackbar?

MSU fleets? Mothma and Cracken both say "hello"

What does a Sato list need? Well, first it needs lots of squadrons to proc his ability, so you probably need to sink at least 75+ points into squads.

He also wants a large number of ships, since you can only swap 2 dice per attack, you want as many 2-3die facings pointed at your foe as possible. Preferably red-die so you can black-die from longer range. Higher activation count also helps you set-up big ships for a nasty hen-pecking.

Since he wants to have a lot of squads, you need some way to push them, but the GR75 has somewhere between zero and nearly zero guns - making them inadequate for the task, further, the small 2/3 die ships that Sato really wants all have squadron 1 - and probably never want to be pulling a squad dial if they can help it, which pushes you towards rogues. Sounding like a Cracken list yet?

If Sato's ability was "Within distance 1 of a friendly squadron or another friendly ship", man would it really open up space for him.

Sato lists are indeed tricky to optimize, and benefit from a laser focus on maximizing the benefits of his ability. But that’s not necessarily the same as just swapping reds for blacks, and getting as many 2-dice pairs as possible.

You can also maximize damage output by utilizing ordnance slots and maximizing rerolls to use those crits. And using large ships can increase fleet durability while maintaining damage output.

And the Sato’s fleet philosophy is always: kill your opponent as quickly as possible. He does best with a hyper-aggressive play style. Make your attack run, delete a bunch of ships, profit. Taking Cracken, while superficially offering other/better benefits to a small ship based list, completely upends the way a list plays.

You don’t always need a lot of squads either. You just want them positioned in the right place at the right time. That might mean just Tycho and a single squadron token. You don’t have to win the squadron game. Your squads just have to be functional long enough for you to destroy their ships.

Here’s a few Sato articles to get your thoughts going. There are others in the forum if you search back long enough.

http://www.steelstrategy.com/2018/06/battle-of-jank.html

http://www.steelstrategy.com/2018/07/the-world-is-officially-ending-sato-is.html

(note the last is pre mc-75)

I just realized that TRCs only works on red dice not black so their is no way on this list to guarantee the hit crit for salvation

On 7/31/2018 at 7:28 PM, chr335 said:

I just realized that TRCs only works on red dice not black so their is no way on this list to guarantee the hit crit for salvation

No, there is not. I highly recommend keeping a CF token on hand, just in case!