5 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Since when does population equate to ruling everything? That's not true at all. ****, the British ruled India for a long time despite being massively outnumbered. Just look at Western Imperialism in general.

Who runs China and India right now? Who is the Chinese president and who are the executives of the Chinese communist party? Who is the president of India? What are the political parties and who makes them up in India?

On top of that, who is the Chancellor of Germany? Who is the ruler of England (Queen of England)?

10 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

Who runs China and India right now? Who is the Chinese president and who are the executives of the Chinese communist party? Who is the president of India? What are the political parties and who makes them up in India?

On top of that, who is the Chancellor of Germany? Who is the ruler of England (Queen of England)?

And yet, none of that is relevant to the discussion except to your strawman

14 minutes ago, Lace Jetstreamer said:

Who runs China and India right now? Who is the Chinese president and who are the executives of the Chinese communist party? Who is the president of India? What are the political parties and who makes them up in India?

On top of that, who is the Chancellor of Germany? Who is the ruler of England (Queen of England)?

You missed my point entirely, which was that population does not equate to power. Western powers ruled huge swaths of the world during Imperialism despite being massively outnumbered. And really, white people have basically been ruling the world since then.

This has gotten so far off topic. Let it die, kill it if you have to.


Actually excellent discussion topic. Kylo says the past has to die. But the whole point of Luke's arc is learning from past mistakes and passing those lessons on. Interesting.

6 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Actually excellent discussion topic. Kylo says the past has to die. But the whole point of Luke's arc is learning from past mistakes and passing those lessons on. Interesting.

The whole movies has these interesting tidbits that you have to realize. The movie has such a huge amount of subtle elements, it's really impressive.

13 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

This has gotten so far off topic. Let it die, kill it if you have to.


Actually excellent discussion topic. Kylo says the past has to die. But the whole point of Luke's arc is learning from past mistakes and passing those lessons on. Interesting.

Luke tried to kill the past initially too. He ran from his problems, trying to kill the Jedi.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The whole movies has these interesting tidbits that you have to realize. The movie has such a huge amount of subtle elements, it's really impressive.

I agree.

17 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

This has gotten so far off topic. Let it die, kill it if you have to.


Actually excellent discussion topic. Kylo says the past has to die. But the whole point of Luke's arc is learning from past mistakes and passing those lessons on. Interesting.

Sorry, I never meant to take it off topic. Like I said, I agreed with the article you linked, I just think his language was counter-productive to his stated goals.

I still haven't listened to the episode yet, I'd probably do better at keeping it on topic if I had...

5 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I still haven't listened to the episode yet, I'd probably do better at keeping it on topic if I had...

blah blah blah listeneing blah blah blah topics. Just post stupid memes like me and you never have to worry about that.

2 hours ago, Kelvan said:

Actually excellent discussion topic. Kylo says the past has to die. But the whole point of Luke's arc is learning from past mistakes and passing those lessons on. Interesting.

Best quote in the whole movie is "we are what they grow beyond."

Okay, having watched the YouTube link on toxic masculinity, I'm still not convinced.

Completely missing is the qualifier of how much masculinity is toxic. Using extreme examples makes it clear that the extremes are too much, but where do the scales tip?

Particularly relevant to our community: at what point is hypercompetitiveness toxic? Is being competitive ever good; or is it always bad, but in large enough quantities it becomes toxic?

I agree that many of the behaviors the video lists are typically found in men, but not always. Is a female bully displaying toxic femininity, or are they just an individual female bully? If the former, why doesn't that phrase exist? If the latter, then why is their bullying separate from their gender, whereas it's 2 sides of the "manhood coin?"

It seems like mostly what the video is asserting that behaving in toxic ways, while being a man is toxic masculinity. That is an overly broad and an unnecessary way to explain bad behavior

Is there such a thing as toxic homosexuality? Or are gay people incapable of toxicity? What about someone in transition either to or from a male gender? If they exemplify those negative traits are they toxically masculine only after/until their transition is complete even if their behavior is consistent through the whole process?

The term mostly seems to serve to point out toxic behavior, but also to take a shot at the current main beneficiaries of current western culture. Which, I totally understand people wanting a power structure shake-up and I'm on board with that, but they're really 2 separate issues, and attempting to roll them into one is sloppy and intellectually disingenuous.

Treat toxic behavior in all forms as toxic behavior-- not toxic behavior+group of people generalization. It's a dangerous door to open. Afterall, it wasn't long ago that people were pushing for an idea of "toxic jewishness".

If we begin to accept that toxic behavior can be inexorably linked to a segment of the population, then that acceptance can be twisted easily into whatever agenda. It seems all well and good when it's being applied toward the dominant culture, but typically, those forces don't just simply go away the moment that culture is no longer dominant.

Okay, now i'll let it die ?

I think you're misunderstanding the concept. Toxic Masculinity is made up of those toxic behaviors that a man thinks are necessary for him to be masculine. It's not a question of amount, it's the specific behaviors themselves. It's a bit nebulous because everyone defines masculinity differently. Generalization is possible because some broad patterns have emerged over the past many years and a certain subset of men follow these patterns. You don't have to check every box to show toxic masculinity. In fact, many people probably only check one or two. It's not like everyone is secretly Kylo Ren or an Incel, angsty and lashing out.

There are actually terms for some other major groups that engage in toxic behavior in enough numbers that a pattern is discernible; I don't really want to go into another rabbit hole though.

24 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

There are actually terms for some other major groups that engage in toxic behavior in enough numbers that a pattern is discernible; I don't really want to go into another rabbit hole though.

I mean, I guess that's fine, if you don't want to go there. But doesn't it seem odd that we're more than willing to go down this rabbit hole and no other?

It's a very obvious cultural double standard. Again, "this group fixes all of their worst behaviors, before we're even comfortable mentioning that other groups have issues" is, in fact, not a mentality that fosters progress or equality. It is a mentality that espouses stagnation at the very least, if not regress, and is fundamentally opposed to equality.

Icons are not enough, thank you @Sekac for a mature, well thought out reply on the other side of the fence. Bravo sir, Bravo.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

I mean, I guess that's fine, if you don't want to go there. But doesn't it seem odd that we're more than willing to go down this rabbit hole and no other?

It's outside the bounds of this discussion, which is maintaining a bare semblance of being quasi-related to something kind of Star Wars-ish. Society in general is having those other discussions already.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

Again, "this group fixes all of their worst behaviors, before we're even comfortable mentioning that other groups have issues"

Other groups are having this discussion, or are framing it ways that apply uniquely to their own groups.

1 hour ago, Sekac said:

not a mentality that fosters progress or equality. It is a mentality that espouses stagnation at the very least, if not regress, and is fundamentally opposed to equality.

It's a movement that is teaching people about the existence of toxic behaviors and helping them come to grips with their own struggles with toxic behaviors, whether in how they treat others or how they are treated by others. I'd argue that is absolutely about progress and equality.

You first learned of this term less than 24 hours ago. It's complicated and we aren't really experts in the subject matter ourselves. If you'd like to learn more in-depth about Toxic Masculinity, you'll probably have to go beyond an X-wing Miniatures Forum thread. Criticizing the concept at this point seems hasty.

DARK GREETINGS

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1 minute ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

DARK GREETINGS

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Blah bah blah memes memes memes

WE STAND HERE AMIDST MY ACHIEVMENT, NOT YOURS!

Peer pressure tooo stronk

Sorry Ricky

MY FATHER THE EMPEROR HAD MANY POWERS OF THE DARK SIDE, BUT WITHOUT THREE EYES HE COULD NEVER ACHIEVE PERFECTION

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

MY FATHER THE EMPEROR HAD MANY POWERS OF THE DARK SIDE, BUT WITHOUT THREE EYES HE CPIPD NEVER ACHIEVE PERFECTION

Pre-prequel Legends (try saying that 3 times fast) was such a bizarre mix of amazing and awful.

3 minutes ago, impspy said:

Pre-prequel Legends (try saying that 3 times fast) was such a bizarre mix of amazing and awful.

IS IT SO WRONG TO BE A MURDERER? OR A LIAR? OR AN INHUMAN MONSTER? I MAY BE ALL OF THOSE THINGS BUT I STILL HAVE A HEART

51 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

You first learned of this term less than 24 hours ago.

Not the case at all, it's just never made sense to me.

53 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

It's a movement that is teaching people about the existence of toxic behaviors and helping them come to grips with their own struggles with toxic behaviors, whether in how they treat others or how they are treated by others. I'd argue that is absolutely about progress and equality.

I'm 100% for this message. See what's missing in this portrayal of it?