I'm not gonna lie, I'm the type of guy who would have designed everything with a ship ability, even the tie fighter. I live for quirky interactions with existing mechanics so I'm leaning towards the improvements to my design in terms of simplicity rather than having a bulkier tie fighter; Praetorate's ideas are more likely to be implemented to the game and mix simplicity with uniqueness quite well. With the Sheen pilot I was trying to implement a sort of 'maximum efficiency reroll' idea that I had where, you get to reroll two dice for a better chance of changing a single result. And the defensive part was to make use of the low initiative in a similar manner. Perhaps these parts could be on separate pilots a la the reaper? I figured the whole thing would fit with the idea of a droid making micro calculations for best possible outcomes.

The ship ability is obviously meant to be a sort of advanced optics which wouldn't token stack quite as annoyingly, with the added benefit of opening your dial in a manner I thought would resemble a droid assisting with navigation. Still pretty wordy.

Jym is meant to be the 'Autopilot drone' of the tie rb with his different ship ability but instead of flavor text he has a majorly detrimental pilot ability to offset the power of said ship ability. That wouldn't have been obvious though because there are so few pilots. (He's also pretty scummy for an imperial pilot of a seemingly experimental ship)

As for the primary weapon, I'm drooling at the idea of a 180 front arc ship with an imperial dial. I think it could feasibly have a 4 primary because it apparently has the heavy version of what the tie interceptor uses. Appearance also suggests 180 arc potential either out the front or with a back arc (and having it unlocked while calculating is a neat idea). However, I think we could tie the ship's firepower to calculate by better implementing my 'maximum efficiency reroll' mechanic. The clips that I saw showed some room for a droid brain assisting with flight as well as shooting.

I vaguely recall it being pretty brutal in Solo. How about something more offensive?

Statline: 2/2/5/0

Slots: Cannon (and other stuff)

Actions:

Barrel Roll -> Calculate

Focus -> Calculate

Target Lock -> Calculate

Ship Ability: When attacking, if the defender is in your [Bullseye] you may spend one [Calculate] token to cancel one [Evade] result.

Dial: Similar to a TIE Bomber

They could be really mean with HLC and Predator or Crack Shot.

6 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

Is there any indication that this thing can fire backwards? It certainly didn’t do so in the film.

It definitely looks like the cannons are mounted on a rotating platform. And the StarWars.com entry for it refers to them as "pivoting laser cannons." Seems pretty reasonable to assume. Not seeing it fire backwards isn't really meaningless, as it was never in front of something. We never saw TIE Bombers shoot lasers or fire missiles/torpedoes either.

Quote

If it could fire backwards it would be rotating, not pivoting.

Pivot and rotate are fairly interchangeable terms, in terms that if something pivots, it can also rotate. Not everything that rotates has to pivot, but there's no mutual exclusivity either. Pivoting just means that the movement is affixed to a specific spot

8 minutes ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

It definitely looks like the cannons are mounted on a rotating platform. And the StarWars.com entry for it refers to them as "pivoting laser cannons." Seems pretty reasonable to assume. Not seeing it fire backwards isn't really meaningless, as it was never in front of something. We never saw TIE Bombers shoot lasers or fire missiles/torpedoes either.

I agree. Apparently a bunch of stuff (in terms of vehicles) got cut from solo. Maybe a scene with a cocky falcon pilot lining up behind the brute only to unexpectedly begin taking fire was one of those things? Would've made for a cool reveal.

37 minutes ago, Phelan Boots said:

I vaguely recall it being pretty brutal in Solo. How about something more offensive?

Statline: 2/2/5/0

Slots: Cannon (and other stuff)

Actions:

Barrel Roll -> Calculate

Focus -> Calculate

Target Lock -> Calculate

Ship Ability: When attacking, if the defender is in your [Bullseye] you may spend one [Calculate] token to cancel one [Evade] result.

Dial: Similar to a TIE Bomber

They could be really mean with HLC and Predator or Crack Shot.

I think this works really well thematically and has some insane (but fair) damage potential with the cannon aspect. Depending on cost it could become quite a dangerous crack swarm variant, without the dial to use it as consistently but having multiple uses makes it quite viable in my opinion relative to 2.0 crackshot.

Edit: Maybe we should keep talents off of it actually...

6 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

I agree, this tie should not fire backwards at all. Give it a cannon sure, give it three attack definitely (now taking a cannon is a Tactical choice like on the ig-Aggressors) rather than an autoinclude like the Scyks)

But this thing can't fire backwards, it's not a baby firespray or a tie Sf light.

Interestingly, the design of the TIE/rb Brute is the concept design of the TIE/sf Special Forces [wookieepedia]. This lends credence to the idea that it should have a rear facing arc.

I really like the calculate interactions that have been posted here, it looks like it could be quite an interesting ship if it makes it to X-wing.

Personally, I think:

3 attack (maybe 4)
2 defence
5 hull
0 shield

fore and rear arc.
Cannon slot - perhaps could have very low attack primary and fire cannon out back?

Look forward to seeing what other people think - and more importantly, what the game designers think when they release it!

Who knows how the cannons pivot exactly, but it would seem logical that they either only pivot within a small limit at the front of the ship to increase accuracy, or rotate about the conduit arm allowing for a rear facing. Both options are equally feasible in terms of the ships exterior design since we haven't seen it pivot on screen.

In terms of in-game design, the Empire already have a cannon mount in the gunboat, and a rear firing turret mount in the aggressor. These ships also have ordnance up their sleeves though and since the brute's only other trick apart from the cannon is its droid intelligence, maybe it would be nice to give it a rear arc, but tie it to the droid in some way.

Here's my thoughts;

Statline; 3 / 2 / 5 / 0 - Many have already suggested this. I think its a good mix. Since it has the same armoured hull as the TIE Bomber, I think 5 is a good hull value without stepping on the Bombers toes. 3 attack seems fair as SE cannons really only provide auxiliary effects rather than raw damage except for HLC.

Upgrades; Cannon Slot, modification x2, EPTs for uniques.

SE Bomber dial seems fair for its statline. Swap the 3 K-turn for a 3 S-loop for some variation.

Action bar; (Calculate as a red linked action to represent the droid assisting the pilot, not operating on its own e.g. the pilot has to get an action for the droid brain to get its calculate action)

Target Lock

Focus -> Calculate

Barrel Roll -> Calculate

Ship Ability; Integrated Droid Brain - If you are calculating, you may attack using your special rear arc. (To represent the Droid intelligence having to target out the rear.)

Some pilot abilities; (I'm basing these abilities particularly with the "brute" nickname in mind. Highly offensive abilities that need a bit of setup for them to work.)

[I3] - "Maw" - When attacking, you may spend a calculate token to choose an enemy ship inside your (primary firing arc). If you do, you may treat that ship as if it were inside your (bullseye firing arc).

[I4] - "Hellion" - When attacking, you may spend a calculate token to cancel all of your dice results. If you do, add 2 (hit) results to your roll.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Statline; 3 / 2 / 5 / 0 - Many have already suggested this. I think its a good mix. Since it has the same armoured hull as the TIE Bomber, I think 5 is a good hull value without stepping on the Bombers toes. 3 attack seems fair as SE cannons really only provide auxiliary effects rather than raw damage except for HLC.

SE Bomber dial seems fair for its statline. Swap the 3 K-turn for a 3 S-loop for some variation.

Action bar; (Calculate as a red linked action to represent the droid assisting the pilot, not operating on its own e.g. the pilot has to get an action for the droid brain to get its calculate action)

Target Lock

Focus -> Calculate

Barrel Roll -> Calculate

Ship Ability; Integrated Droid Brain - If you are calculating, you may attack using your special rear arc. (To represent the Droid intelligence having to target out the rear.)

Some pilot abilities; (I'm basing these abilities particularly with the "brute" nickname in mind. Highly offensive abilities that need a bit of setup for them to work.)

[I4] - "Maw" - When attacking, you may spend a calculate token to choose an enemy ship inside your (primary firing arc). If you do, you may treat that ship as if it were inside your (bullseye firing arc).

[I3] - "Hellion" - When attacking, you may spend a calculate token to cancel all of your dice results. If you do, add 2 (hit) results to your roll.

Looks great.

One thing that would be nice that has been posted here, but which your version doesn't have, is a way to get calculate tokens without stress. It seems like the droid brain shouldn't have to rely on the pilot to be able to function, so I prefer @Praetorate of the Empire 's idea that after you fully execute a manoeuvre, you may perform a free calculate.
I like your offensive abilities, though I feel they are a touch underpowered for being truly 'Brutal'.

Maw - Bull'seye has no inherent effect in 2.0

Helion - only 2 hits? I mean, its not Bad , but...

4-5 hull seems about right. It definitely doesn't have the bulk of a TIE bomber, more like an aggressor or striker; albeit 'cockpit and outrigger' rather than 'big cockpit'.

I agree I'd rather see a cannon than a 4-dice primary. A 3-dice primary is okay.

Since we don't really see the guns pivot (and weirdly there's been no toy of it - the lego release was the updated normal TIE fighter) we don't know what it means but with both the SF and the Firespray gone, a fore-and-aft aux arc ship would be nice.

15 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Maw - Bull'seye has no inherent effect in 2.0

If he has an [elite] upgrade it can still be worthwhile, allowing him to trigger predator, marksmanship or crack shot at a target in his 'normal' arc.

16 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Action bar; (Calculate as a red linked action to represent the droid assisting the pilot, not operating on its own e.g. the pilot has to get an action for the droid brain to get its calculate action)

Target Lock

Focus -> Calculate

Barrel Roll -> Calculate  

I guess not wanting to allow double-modified attacks is the reason to disallow target lock/calculate?

42 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Looks great.

One thing that would be nice that has been posted here, but which your version doesn't have, is a way to get calculate tokens without stress. It seems like the droid brain shouldn't have to rely on the pilot to be able to function, so I prefer @Praetorate of the Empire 's idea that after you fully execute a manoeuvre, you may perform a free calculate.
I like your offensive abilities, though I feel they are a touch underpowered for being truly 'Brutal'.

Maw - Bull'seye has no inherent effect in 2.0

Helion - only 2 hits? I mean, its not Bad , but...

EDIT: @Magnus Grendel ninja'd. We're on the same wavelength

I'm trying to stay in keeping with the 2.0 ethos of token stacking costs you stress. I'm also not in the mindset of this being a monster. Its just a TIE fighter with a big gun strapped to it. I see the defender as the top dog of the Empire, so every other TIE (including this) should be inferior.

I think the droid brain should have to rely on the pilot, as its an assistance system (like L3-37 in the navi-computer) rather than an actual droid doing its own thing. I also see getting a free calculate for nothing as over powered for what I believe this ship should cost point wise.

That was my thought process anyway.

Maw - Bull'seye has no inherent effect in 2.0 - Yeah I know so he's no different to a generic without upgrades, but with Predator and HLC he gets really good, with 4 dice anywhere in his arc and a free re-roll. That is actually what I was going for. With an attack he either already has them in the bullseye and can keep the calculate for mods, or he spends it to guarantee a bullseye. I thought this was a way to represent the droid brain assisting targeting.

Helion - only 2 hits? I mean, its not Bad, but... It's the same as 1.0 accuracy corrector. To demonstrate how consistent this guys dice would be, say he takes a Focus linked Calculate action;

1. He rolls 3 focus > spends the focus > gets 3 hits > keeps the calculate for defense.

2. He rolls 2 focus and 1 hit > spends the focus > gets 3 hits > keeps the calculate for defense.

3. He rolls 2 hits and 1 focus > spends the calculate > gets 3 hits > keeps the focus for defense.

4. He rolls 1 hit, 1 focus, 1 blank > spends the calculate for either dice mod/or ability > he gets 2 hits > keeps a focus for defense.

5. He rolls 2 blanks and 1 hit > spends the calculate on the ability > he gets 2 hits > keeps the focus for defense.

6. He rolls 3 blanks > spends the calculate on the ability > he gets 2 hits > keeps the focus for defense.

7. He spends the calculate to fire out the rear > still has a focus for mods.

It makes most of his shots quite accurate, and he is guaranteed to hit a 1 agility ship at range 1-2. This guy equipped with control cannons (ion, tractor etc) is going to get the effect off quite a bit considering defensive token stacking isn't a big thing anymore.

17 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

There is no indication that it can fire backwards and it’s model would seem to suggest that it is incapable as well.

This is just a TIE with more armor and a bigger gun, nothing more.

I want it to have 180 arc like the wookie boats!

Only without crew but with computer assisted shooting (give 1 calculate token for free each round).

180 forwards is an issue, though, because (like the TIEsf) firing sideways means shooting through the solar panels.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

180 forwards is an issue, though, because (like the TIEsf) firing sideways means shooting through the solar panels.

Could give it a bonus to shots or a double-tap (primary, then equipped cannon) in the Bull's-Eye Arc.

Personally I'd stat it out as being like the bomber but for cannons, and with a Tie/LN dial. The intended purpose being to run one alongside your otehr TIEs to give them a cheap cannon platform that can fly in formation with the LN. So

2 forward attack

2 agility

6 hull (maybe 5 if it's a dealbreaker on keeping the price down)

Actions: Focus, barrel roll -R> focus

Upgrades: Cannon, Cannon, Modification, (Talent by pilot)

Ace abilities:

A hIgh Init one (5) should have something like: "After making an attack with an equipped cannon you may spend a focus token to make a bonus attack against a different target" (spread the ion, tractor, jam tokens around)

A very low init one (2) with something like: "While you are focused, you may attack enemy ships at range 0 with your equipped cannon upgrades." (blocker and point blank HLC in one convenient package)

21 hours ago, Prosk_019 said:

With the Sheen pilot I was trying to implement a sort of 'maximum efficiency reroll' idea that I had where, you get to reroll two dice for a better chance of changing a single result.

....

However, I think we could tie the ship's firepower to calculate by better implementing my 'maximum efficiency reroll' mechanic. The clips that I saw showed some room for a droid brain assisting with flight as well a shooting.

maybe you are looking for something like "spend a calculate token to reroll one die. This does not count as a reroll" so you could reroll it again.

A brutal effect could be "While calculating you can improve one die roll" Improve being blank -> focus, or focus -> hit, etc.. Because you are not spending the token it guarantees at least one hit. (ability: blank->focus, spend token: focus->hit).

Given the guns likely ability to rotate, and the manner in which it does so, I think I would give it the ability to attack targets above and below. The only time this happens is when it overlaps a ship. You may attack ships at range 0. This would make them great at low init blocking.

or maybe something similar to movement through an obstacle. If your maneuver template passes through an enemy ship during the movement phase, you may roll one extra attack die if you target that ship during the attack phase . Or some such ****.

To all you 4-dice people: It's not going to happen. The phantom got knocked down to 3, and the only ones with 4 have that attack value because they eat up more than half your list. The developers specifically said they had to give them 4 primaries because the point sink just wasn't worth it unless they had that kind of damage output, or in other words, it's an extremely rare premium. The gun on that TIE/rb is smaller/weaker than the quad laser cannons on Han's Falcon, and he has 2 of them. Still represented as a 3. Unless you're basically a large base that's not much more than a flying gun, you're not getting a 4 primary.

8 hours ago, McTavish said:

maybe you are looking for something like "spend a calculate token to reroll one die. This does not count as a reroll" so you could reroll it again.

A brutal effect could be "While calculating you can improve one die roll" Improve being blank -> focus, or focus -> hit, etc.. Because you are not spending the token it guarantees at least one hit. (ability: blank->focus, spend token: focus->hit).

I really like these, lots simpler for the purpose of wording and fits real well with the droid assistance concept.

2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

To all you 4-dice people: It's not going to happen. The phantom got knocked down to 3, and the only ones with 4 have that attack value because they eat up more than half your list. The developers specifically said they had to give them 4 primaries because the point sink just wasn't worth it unless they had that kind of damage output, or in other words, it's an extremely rare premium. The gun on that TIE/rb is smaller/weaker than the quad laser cannons on Han's Falcon, and he has 2 of them. Still represented as a 3. Unless you're basically a large base that's not much more than a flying gun, you're not getting a 4 primary.

You know, I was always frustrated by the ghost's primary being so high when all it seemed to have was those two chin guns, so thanks for clearing that up. I can now see why they changed the tie phantom the way they did. Makes me think that the upsilon's attack was an afterthought. It isn't supposed to have a great attack anyway so I hope it turns out to be a sort of anti-support disruptor or something in 2.0.

17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

180 forwards is an issue, though, because (like the TIEsf) firing sideways means shooting through the solar panels.

You know the models are more or less abstract. As are arcs. If you want to be that strict, nearly all of the ships should have only bullseye fire arc. The Punishing One could never shot at anything that is on the starboard side of the ship. I am sure we find more examples.

Would be a nice mechanic to portray the "swiveling" gun. At least I think so. And it would bring something new to the table that empire did not have so far. Heck, there are people on these forums who want to give the U-Wing the ability to fire sideways because of the Gunner that shoot out of the door in the movie. That would be more an issue.

On 7/12/2018 at 3:56 PM, Praetorate of the Empire said:

Could give it a bonus  to shots or a double-tap (primary, then equipped cannon) in the Bull's-Eye Arc. 

I think this is a good start. Bullseye may alow a free calculate token for example.

Things that I think would work with this ship, though, maybe no all at the same time: base attack of 2 with a cannon slot, a 180 forward arc, a calculate token with a focus obtainable though other linked actions, some kind of bonus from the bullseye

Having more hull and attack is a good start, and obvious. I don't think a cannon slot is needed.

but something unique for the Brute with the idea that the droid is meant to aid operations would be good. Perhaps a free calculate in the system phase. With the ship ability to spend a calculate token to improve a manoeuvre one step if you have no stress?

What i think, based on its looks, apparent role in-universe, canon info (just from Wookieepedia but they do usually get sourcing correct). https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/rb_heavy_starfighter

A ship ability that probably relates to gaining Calculate Tokens, or otherwise the ship has linked actions to Calculate. This stems from the integrated droid brain the ship has and thus Calculate-related things would be thematically appropriate. Alternatively, a ship ability that boosts the primary attack somehow, such as "defender gains no range bonus", linked actions to Calculate are more likely in this case.

Modifications: 1-2 mod slots, Talent as usual for higher initiative pilots. Probably no Cannons, because the lasers cannons the ship have seem to be very integrated, though this is not impossible in order to give the Empire a small ship likely to use them without config or the TIE/D that is unlikely to use Cannon upgrades, in this case ship's natural attack is likely 2. No Crew or Gunner, as the ship already has integral droid brain.

Stats:

• Forward 3 attack seems likely, due to heavier laser cannons. Full forward arc 3 attack is possible though, the laser cannons may have wider field of fire than the standard TIE has plus it would give the Empire something they don't yet have. Not turret, the cannons seem to be forward-locked.
• Greater hull strength than standard TIE/LN but not as great as the larger TIE/sa, say 4 or 5.
• No shields, the ship showed no evidence of those in the film and there's no mention of them on Wookieepedia.
• Agility is a bit tricky. Seemingly heavier hull and larger size could imply 2 agility, on the other hand the ship was quite agile in Solo, so 3 agility but no Evade is plausible.

Actions: Focus, Barrel Roll are likely. Lock is possible due to the droid brain plus the ship's role, but not certain given that this belong to the earlier and simpler TIE fighters.

Dial: Something akin to the TIE/LN and TIE/sa, most likely. However, the laser cannons are mentioned to be "self-powered", as such the ship might be channeling extra solar energy for movement and thus a better dial. Slight asymmetry is plausible, would be unique feature among the Imperial ships plus on a small ship the cannon placement could be significant asymmetry (unlike YT-1300/2400 cockpits), this could be very minor such as only one bank or turn differing from the other, not like the radically asymmetric Jumpmaster dial.

This all would drop the ship somewhere between TIE Defender, TIE Bomber and TIE Advanced in function and role. Cost-wise, could be a stepping stone between TIE/LN and TIE/sa or TIE/LN and TIE/x1.

My take: Medium base, 3/2/6/0 statline, cannon and system slots, TIE bomber like dial, ship abiity 'at the start of the engagement phase, gain 1 calculate token for each enemy ship in your bullseye arc'

Imperial mini-IG88

Personally, I think that would go well with the imperial faction idea of centerpiece+miniswarm

(E.g. punisher/decimator/lambda/reaper + ties/strikers/squints)