Welcome fellow left-behind enthusiasts,

I'm going to play 2.0, but some of my friends will inevitably still be 1.0 people. Before we jump ship, I want to come up with a set of house rules or recommendations to pass to FFG for one final FAQ. One FAQ to end all FAQs, one nerf to rule them all. Here's where you all come in. Of course, it won't be possible to get total agreements, but more people chiming in and voting for what looks most sensible should make something that seems most agreeable. In the end, perhaps these would be my own house rules, but hopefully, many many will enjoy them and we can reference this as a set of rules for enhanced 1.0 play. I'm going to start by putting out some ideas here. And we can discuss them broadly here. Then, I'll make new threads for each point, and people can vote and make specific comments on that one facet.
1.2 stands for the vision of a mature version of the old Xwing game, something like the Brood War of Starcraft 1. Imbalances will exist, but there's a will and a way for every faction. And hopefully nothing is too much stronger than everything else. (Preferably here, we can more balanced than Brood War, which had extremely strong legal strategies.) I hope that 1.2 could be used as tournament rules for balanced play, but also as a foundation for casual play into the future. This means also think of what you'd want lay-people to enjoy if they come across you and some friends playing some 1.2.

The Great Nerfing

So, the first step to 1.2 is considered an evaluation of the meta and diversity of 1.0. At this step, we look at what is really too strong in 1.0, what are design decisions that might be way out of norm, and suggest nerfs. Here are some givens I'm starting with, and they will be up for discussion.

Givens/Assumptions:
1. Nerfs are needed. First, some game designs simply get out of hand. At this point, you should probably agree that the game is more diverse (better off is too hard to quantify) after nerfs to things like Pre-nerf 3 Jumpmaster Torps and pre-nerf-boost-then-TJ Trajectory Simulator Proton Bombs. If you can't agree about this, I really do suggest you're in the wrong thread. Second, the power of the current meta is extremely stratified, and causes many meta lists to be considerably more effective and easier to win with than other random well-built lists. This is arguable, and many are of the mind that this might not be the case. However, you can look here http://meta-wing.com for some data on the best squads, and you'll notice that the same lists, or the same type of lists keep recurring and staying on top.
2. Nerf things that are way above parity down, instead of trying to buff everything up to a higher power level. Much harder to playtest, also nearly impossible to bring everything up to a similar level.
3. Borrow ideas/designs from 2.0. The easiest way to get something that seems FFG.
4. Try and change as little as needed. Try and make things explainable in one sentence. Do not add to mental burden of remembering 1.0 and then having to remember details in 1.2 rules.
5. Goal is list diversity and fun. List diversity means reducing power disparity so more other well-built lists have a chance. It allows for people to play with more options and pieces. It allows for different play styles to be rewarded. Fun is much harder to agree upon, as it seems people's concept of NPE has a lot to do with what they don't like and what they personally fly. But generally, try and think of what is more fun for both players in a game.

Nerf suggestions:
1. Sheathipede loses EPT slot.
2. Ghost-AttackShuttle titles: The Ghost's end of turn attack must be performed from the Attack Shuttle's (rear) 3-dice primary or it's attached turret. The attack shuttle does not share upgrades with the Ghost.
3. Harpoons - The action to remove loses the damage upon failure. (Becoming harpooned now means loss of actions, from trying to flip the card, but not guaranteed damage.)
4. Reinforce - Must be used to change a rolled die to evade. (Does not add an evade result anymore.) Reduces damage to a minimum of 1 if used.
5. Scurgg - Loses EPT slot.
(6. When defending against secondary weapons at Range 3, roll a die for Range 3 bonus. (This seems like a very drastic power shift, I am therefore hesitant.))

What will probably be left as the best ships:
1. Quickdraw. Definitely has staying power near the rest of the meta. Though possible to outfly and outplay.
2. Dash
3. Miranda
4. 5 Xwings

reserved

reserved

I've run several altered formats of X-wing 1.0 at our league nights, and I found a really easy way of reining in some of those top-tier ships/lists is to ban the following 3 cards:

It's not a perfect comparison, because we were running a wave restricted league (only waves 1-3 ships allowed). Even so, I think losing these 3 cards would only make the game better, especially if you also tackle the other issues. All 3 are boring cards that don't add anything interesting to the game, and prop up a bunch of the worst aspects of X-wing.

This was just an easy fix I took and there's plenty more cards that could go on that list. If you want to actually fiddle with card text there's a lot of good that can be done, examples:

1) Lowhhrick's ability now reads: When another friendly ship at Range 1 is defending, you may spend 1 reinforce token and suffer 1 damage . If you do, the defender adds 1 evade result.
This change brings lowhhrick's ability in line with other similar abilities and keeps the game progressing.

2) Assaj's ability now reads: At the start of the Combat phase, you may choose a ship at Range 1-2. If it is inside your mobile firing arc, take 1 stress to assign 1 stress token to it.
A powerful ability, which is easy to trigger should have a downside. This makes it an actual decision point, rather than essentially a passive ability.

3) Fenn Rau (Sheathipede) has the following stat change : PS9 -> PS6.
Fenn's ability and HSCP are much less oppressive when confined to PS6/8. There's a precedent for this, as Kylo in the shuttle is a lower PS than him in the Silencer.

Those are just a few that spring to mind.

Can I suggest that harpoons require you to spend the target lock?

19 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Nerf suggestions:
1. Sheathipede loses EPT slot.
2. Ghost-AttackShuttle titles: The Ghost's end of turn attack must be performed from the Attack Shuttle's (rear) 3-dice primary or it's attached turret. The attack shuttle does not share upgrades with the Ghost.
3. Harpoons - The action to remove loses the damage upon failure. (Becoming harpooned now means loss of actions, from trying to flip the card, but not guaranteed damage.)
4. Reinforce - Must be used to change a rolled die to evade. (Does not add an evade result anymore.) Reduces damage to a minimum of 1 if used.
5. Scurgg - Loses EPT slot.
(6. When defending against secondary weapons at Range 3, roll a die for Range 3 bonus. (This seems like a very drastic power shift, I am therefore hesitant.))

What will probably be left as the best ships:
1. Quickdraw. Definitely has staying power near the rest of the meta. Though possible to outfly and outplay.
2. Dash
3. Miranda
4. 5 Xwings

Whilst I fully plan to move to 2.0 as do my player group, I thought I'd look at this anyway.

I really like all of those suggestions; they are very pragmatic which I appreciate, I do think you could be harsher on harpoons without upsetting anyone though

My 2 cents;

Nerf suggestions:

1. Sheathipede loses EPT slot. TICK
2. Ghost-AttackShuttle titles: The Ghost's end of turn attack must be performed from the Attack Shuttle's (rear) 3-dice primary or it's attached turret. The attack shuttle does not share upgrades with the Ghost. TICK
3. Harpoons - You must spend your target lock to perform this attack. The action to remove loses the damage upon failure. (Becoming harpooned now means loss of actions, from trying to flip the card, but not guaranteed damage.) TICK
4. Reinforce - Must be used to change a rolled die to evade. (Does not add an evade result anymore.) Reduces damage to a minimum of 1 if used. TICK
5. Scurgg - Loses EPT slot. TICK
6. Range bonuses apply to turret and cannon upgrades.

Harpoons even without the action damage, are still way stronger than any other missile, that is my biggest gripe with it. Spending the TL will bring harpoons power curve down without affecting other munitions.

If range bonuses applied to turrets would allow for a power shift in regards to TLT. TLT wouldn't get an offensive bonus at all, and defending ships have more of a chance of avoiding damage. It also brings the rest of the turrets up a bit on the power curve potentially meaning TLT is no longer an automatic choice. Ion turrets have a higher chance of landing, dorsal turret becomes great at range 1, but still horrible at any other range. The range control will bring flying back to the forefront for both the turret user and the defending ship, without fundamentally changing how turrets work. It's a change many have suggested, and I think its an eloquent change.

Applying range bonuses to cannons does many of the same things. It will allow defending players a chance against Dash at range 3, but will also give a little buff to B-wings and Scyks allowing them to make some decent use out of their cannons. This coupled with the change to harpoons, makes cannon gunboats much more enticing over their missile counterparts as well.

One suggestion I'd like to add would be to bombs. 2.0 change to making bomb drops before activation is one that could easily be implemented in 1.0 (treat it the same as the nerf to decloaking). Making all reveal bombs drop before activation nerfs bomblet generator significantly, as well as making action bombs the stronger option (as they should be, since they take an action away from the user).

A hard cap of PS9 is another suggestion many have thrown around that would be great for the game and easily implemented.

Great thoughts guys. Keep them coming.

I think a fair compromise between 1.0 and 2.0 turrets is to make all turret and PWT attacks require a target lock when attacking outside the primary firing arc. Makes them more action dependent (it also makes sense in universe) without inventing a whole new action.

Is there any ship with a turret that DOESN'T have a target lock?

18 hours ago, CRCL said:

3) Fenn Rau (Sheathipede) has the following stat change : PS9 -> PS6.
Fenn's ability and HSCP are much less oppressive when confined to PS6/8. There's a precedent for this, as Kylo in the shuttle is a lower PS than him in the Silencer.

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Is there any ship with a turret that DOESN'T have a target lock?

The Attack Shuttle can't lock natively.

9 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

The Attack Shuttle can't lock natively.

stupid rebels ruining everything

I guess adding it can't hurt much.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

stupid rebels ruining everything

I guess adding it can't hurt much.

Yeah it's literally the only ship, it wouldn't hurt for it to have a native target lock. Targeting computer is a thing but its 2pts, which isn't a killer, but it'll probably mean the attack shuttle will never be used other than as a ghost attachment (kinda like now).

OR if turrets had the 'attack [Target Lock]' qualifier then the attack shuttle could Deadeye EPT its way around that issue.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

OR if turrets the 'attack [Target Lock]' qualifier then the attack shuttle could Deadeye EPT its way around that issue.

Smart!

10 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

Yeah it's literally the only ship, it wouldn't hurt for it to have a native target lock. Targeting computer is a thing but its 2pts, which isn't a killer, but it'll probably mean the attack shuttle will never be used other than as a ghost attachment (kinda like now).

OR if turrets had the 'attack [Target Lock]' qualifier then the attack shuttle could Deadeye EPT its way around that issue.

Smart!

It also gives Blaster Turret a use since it already has the 'Attack [Focus]' qualifier.

3 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

It also gives Blaster Turret a use since it already has the 'Attack [Focus]' qualifier.

Let's not forget Sabine Crew.

Can we limit the free damage only to bombs dropped from the ship where she's a crew member? The card is very verbose already--not sure how you'd word it succinctly.

And I know this falls under the "buff" category, but what about giving non-generic (i.e. unique) pilots PS 6 and above access to an EPT? Ships like the Y-wing and Lambda and all manner of TIEs would have a better chance against later waves.

Next, re-visiting Veteran Instincts & Adaptability would be nice. Limiting them to PS 7 & under OR make them unique.

I'm going to suggest an overarching suggestion. Let's analyze our suggestions with a caveat: Level 1 - This is seriously strength-level broken, dominates the field and should be prioritized in any nerfing immediately. Level 2 - I can't currently determine for myself that this is obviously broken. It might be unfun. But not as dominating as Level 1 stuff.

Here's how this can work out: We query and talk about what most people believe to be Level 1 stuff first. Get a few of those sorted out. Then as a counter-argument to ourselves - we ask - What does that leave us? Do anything left behind still come out and ridiculously stronger than the norm? There WILL be those things. Some of them we won't be able to touch, because, lo and behold, some of us do like that thing. Push and pull.

Level 1's first. What do you think really has to go?

18 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

Let's not forget Sabine Crew.

Can we limit the free damage only to bombs dropped from the ship where she's a crew member? The card is very verbose already--not sure how you'd word it succinctly.

An easier fix is to make it a discard for the +1 damage.

Love it!

3 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

And I know this falls under the "buff" category, but what about giving non-generic (i.e. unique) pilots PS 6 and above access to an EPT? Ships like the Y-wing and Lambda and all manner of TIEs would have a better chance against later waves.

Next, re-visiting Veteran Instincts & Adaptability would be nice. Limiting them to PS 7 & under OR make them unique.

I like thinking out of the box. But let's try and come to some agreements first. I'd like to argue that if non-EPT (non-buffed) ships like that could possibly stand a chance. (Let's not kid ourselves about Fel's Wrath...) I think this is a step in the right direction.

Fixing PS limits and or Vet Instincts sounds very tricky. I'm noting as a counter-argument to myself that 2.0 has attempted to do that, and is a core feature in removing VI, adapt, PTL and all the other near auto-includes.

23 hours ago, CRCL said:

I've run several altered formats of X-wing 1.0 at our league nights, and I found a really easy way of reining in some of those top-tier ships/lists is to ban the following 3 cards:

It's not a perfect comparison, because we were running a wave restricted league (only waves 1-3 ships allowed). Even so, I think losing these 3 cards would only make the game better, especially if you also tackle the other issues. All 3 are boring cards that don't add anything interesting to the game, and prop up a bunch of the worst aspects of X-wing.

This was just an easy fix I took and there's plenty more cards that could go on that list. If you want to actually fiddle with card text there's a lot of good that can be done, examples:

1) Lowhhrick's ability now reads: When another friendly ship at Range 1 is defending, you may spend 1 reinforce token and suffer 1 damage . If you do, the defender adds 1 evade result.
This change brings lowhhrick's ability in line with other similar abilities and keeps the game progressing.

2) Assaj's ability now reads: At the start of the Combat phase, you may choose a ship at Range 1-2. If it is inside your mobile firing arc, take 1 stress to assign 1 stress token to it.
A powerful ability, which is easy to trigger should have a downside. This makes it an actual decision point, rather than essentially a passive ability.

3) Fenn Rau (Sheathipede) has the following stat change : PS9 -> PS6.
Fenn's ability and HSCP are much less oppressive when confined to PS6/8. There's a precedent for this, as Kylo in the shuttle is a lower PS than him in the Silencer.

Those are just a few that spring to mind.

So which of these do you think are Level 1?

Also, I was thinking really hard about your 3 card ban list, and DANG. Kept me up all night, it does sound pretty good. (Though I envision then you will really need a nerf to Auzitucks as a level 2 to compliment in your suggestion).

37 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I'm going to suggest an overarching suggestion. Let's analyze our suggestions with a caveat: Level 1 - This is seriously strength-level broken, dominates the field and should be prioritized in any nerfing immediately. Level 2 - I can't currently determine for myself that this is obviously broken. It might be unfun. But not as dominating as Level 1 stuff.

Here's how this can work out: We query and talk about what most people believe to be Level 1 stuff first. Get a few of those sorted out. Then as a counter-argument to ourselves - we ask - What does that leave us? Do anything left behind still come out and ridiculously stronger than the norm? There WILL be those things. Some of them we won't be able to touch, because, lo and behold, some of us do like that thing. Push and pull.

Level 1's first. What do you think really has to go?

31 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

So which of these do you think are Level 1?

Also, I was thinking really hard about your 3 card ban list, and DANG. Kept me up all night, it does sound pretty good. (Though I envision then you will really need a nerf to Auzitucks as a level 2 to compliment in your suggestion).

As I said, we were only playing Waves 1-3 + the Striker and U-wing. This kept the ship pool pretty small and all those ships are on a fairly similar powerlevel. Also no ship could cost more than 50pts, which was primarily to stop Fat-Han from dominating, though big ships were still really successful.

To use your level system:
1) Turrets (especially TLT) need to be nerfed (Level 1). You can then nerf/remove autothrusters from the game, which makes aces a bit less oppressive (Level 2).

2) Defensive mods/regen need to be toned down (Lowhhrick, Latts, R2D2, Palp, ect). This is a more widespread problem in the game IMO (level 1). X-wing is at it's worst when the game stops progressing because a ship or combo of ships can mitigate a guaranteed amount of damage each turn. I think stuff like Draw their fire and Selflessness are OK, because they still allow the game to progress via damage, but just control who takes the damage.

3) Ordnance needs to be toned down. I think this is as simple as removing chips and maybe changing the harpoon missile to attack 3 instead of 4 (level 2).

4) Sabine needs to be a discard and I'd just put Bomblet Generator on a ban list (level 2).

Basically all the most abused and poorly balanced cards/abilities are those which give a powerful effect with little to no limits (Eg: R2D2, Dengar Pilot, Bomblet, ect). The game needs a bit more resource management.

Those are just my opinions though.

Harpoons: only deal the condition when the they actually deal a damage card to the defender.

That alone is a MASSIVE nerf to their alpha capacity, as you're probably not getting the condition on even the second shot against many if not most lists.

I guess we just get a new one of these threads every time the previous one has fallen off the front page for a week or so?