Hi Guys,

This is our first time playing FFG's Star Wars game and I need a little help as currently, I don't think I'm enjoying playing my jedi under this system. My main issue is with strain recovery, especially strain recovery outside of combat.

Context: I'm playing a soresu defender/protector and we've only had 360 xp so far (inc. character gen.). I have 16 wounds and 16 strain, parry 2 and reflect 3, defensive stance and force protection. Oh, and stimpack specialist. The only force power I have is enhance, with two control upgrades and I've only just got my second force die. We are playing in the Age of Rebellion era, just after the battle of Yavin.

My character concept is to be the guy who draws all the attention and fire away from the rest of the group by being the flashy lightsaber guy.

Here's the thing though, my character burns through strain like nobodies business! Both defensive stance and force protection take a strain to maintain every round (otherwise I'm wasting actions and manoeuvres switching them on and off) and parry/reflect costs 3 strain to activate for every use (pretty much this gets used at least once per round), so on average I spend 5 strain every round; not including whatever the GM drops on me from his rolls. My lightsaber pool is 3 yellow and every advantage result I get goes to recovering strain, I just NEVER get to use them for anything else but this. In a similar vein, I NEVER push to take an extra manoeuvre because of the strain cost. I don't really have a problem with this, as such, It feels right I get all this strain playing the hero.

The problem is, some of the mechanics surrounding it just feel... off?

Recovering wounds, both in and out of combat, is incredibly easy and common: just use a stimpack. Conversely, recovering strain outside of combat is incredibly hard and rare. You get to make a single recovery role at the end of combat however only successes count as 'advantages' only heal strain in combat (so, if I'm lucky, I get a couple of points back here). The only other way is if someone can perform medicine on you, but you only get strain back on advantages and the roll can only be made once per day. Or wait 24 hours to recover the lot. The net result is I'm only good for one fight a day as I simply can't recover enough strain between fights to go another combat. Ironically, the rulebook claims it's "fairly easy" to recover from strain, but its just not – it's actually super hard to.

And if I actually go unconscious due to strain loss, how do my buddies get me back up? If it was wound's they'd just stimpack me. I get a one-off medicine check and hope they get an advantage? Otherwise I'm out of the game for 24 hours?

Because of the combined effect of heavy strain costs and limited strain recovery it feels like the system is punishing me for wanting to play a jedi? Take force protection for example: use a manoeuvre and commit a force point and take a point of strain damage every turn to increase soak by 1. That's effectively take 1 strain instead of 1 wound. But wounds are much, much easier to recover so this power feels like a waste? Parry/reflect have a similar problem: 3 strain instead of 4/5 wounds. It's a little more cost effective but still, wounds are just easier to regain.

Here's where I feel like I'm not being allowed to 'feel' like a jedi, I have to actively allow myself to be wounded rather than try to defend myself because it's a more economical use of resource management. It just feels like it's better to not use my powers and abilities and just take the wounds instead, as they're more temporary and easier to recover from, but that just feels... wrong, counter-intuitive and very un-jedi?

I mean, what am I doing wrong? Is it just 'tough, that's what you get for being a jedi'? Have I made a mistake playing a jedi, should I change character?

Apologies for the length of post but I appreciate any insight more experienced players can give me.

Cheers

Ebb/flow, my young apprentice. Ebb/Flow.

(From Disciples of Harmony)

I'm not really sure what the issue is, as I understood it, strain is the easier resource to recover between encounters, by far. So I'm not really sure what's going on. Perhaps a misunderstanding of the rules for strain recovery? Strain is supposed to represent emotional, and physical fatigue, due to exertion and stress. And taking a 10 minute break is usually enough for any human to catch their breath and be mostly up to full functionality again. Catching your breath is way easier than fixing a gaping chest wound , so I'm a tad puzzled. It's been a long time since I looked at the rules for recovery, but I'm thinking you are missing a key detail somewhere? Hopefully someone who has memorized the rules (of which there are many on this forum), can elaborate a bit more.

17 hours ago, Dark Star said:

Hi Guys,

This is our first time playing FFG's Star Wars game and I need a little help as currently, I don't think I'm enjoying playing my jedi under this system. My main issue is with strain recovery, especially strain recovery outside of combat.

A few quick hit thoughts here:

1.) Are you using advantage to recover strain? You can do this on a 1:1 basis, and while the GM has the final say, advantage generated on checks outside of combat can also be used in this manner.

2.) Are you making your Discipline or Cool check at the end of every encounter to recover strain? Encounter doesn't necessarily have to be combat encounter here, and I would certainly lobby my GM for a such a check after a plot important "non combat" encounter.

3.) Wounds are 'easy' to recover with stimpacks, but you can only use 5 of those in a 24 hour period, and you get diminishing returns for each use.

4.) Advantages earned on a medicine check to heal wounds (which can be done once per day, or once per encounter if your GM is generous) can be used to recover strain.

To elaborate my earlier answer a bit:

You may have this impression from the build you chose, which is quite wound-heavy. Between 2 Toughened and 2 Stimpack Specialization, Protector puts a huge number of wounds at your disposal. That said, the main point about strain being easier to recover compared with wounds is that you get a free zero-difficulty roll to recover strain at the end of each encounter (including non-combat encounters when you take zero strain; you may have missed this) and you can spend advantage on any roll in combat (or for some GMs, any roll period) to recover strain. But most characters, especially yours, do start with a larger pool of wounds and have the ability to regain wounds in large swathes from stimpacks.

Now, Jedi do need a bunch of extra strain compared with regular characters because of Parry/Reflect. That is where Ebb/Flow comes in. With every skill roll, you gain back on average 1-3 strain (I'm guessing you're FR 2 from your specs). With Soresu, you can do this on every lightsaber attack you make. It adds up to a lot of strain recovered in an average combat. It also works on your Discipline rolls to recover strain, further compounding its effects. Spend 20 points on that power and you will not want for strain any longer.

17 hours ago, Dark Star said:

The only other way is if someone can perform medicine on you, but you only get strain back on advantages and the roll can only be made once per day.

I think first aid is actually once per encounter?

17 hours ago, Dark Star said:

And if I actually go unconscious due to strain loss, how do my buddies get  me back up? If it was wound's they'd just stimpack me. I get a one-off medicine check and hope they get an advantage? Otherwise I'm out of the game for 24 hours?

Yeah, this is kind of an unfortunate part of the way it works. I allow my PCs to use stimpacks to heal allies' strain as a house rule if the ally is unconscious. You might ask your GM about that.

17 hours ago, Dark Star said:

Take force protection for example: use a manoeuvre and commit a force point and take a point of strain damage every turn to increase soak by 1. That's effectively take 1 strain instead of 1 wound.

One thing you are definitely right about is that Force Protection is terrible. Consider it a dead talent. In ordinary situations it's better not to use it. You may want to try appealing to your GM's conscience to allow you to respec and spend the points you spent on Force Protection elsewhere. It is not work the XP.

5 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

17 hours ago, Dark Star said:

Take force protection for example: use a manoeuvre and commit a force point and take a point of strain damage every turn to increase soak by 1. That's effectively take 1 strain instead of 1 wound.

One thing you are definitely right about is that Force Protection is terrible. Consider it a dead talent. In ordinary situations it's better not to use it. You may want to try appealing to your GM's conscience to allow you to respec and spend the points you spent on Force Protection elsewhere. It is not work the XP.

Yeah, I have to agree with DaverWattra here. Force Protection is a sub-optimal talent, especially since you've already spent into the Enhance Tree. The Brawn upgrade control talent does the same thing, does it without a strain cost, and also boosts any Brawn related skill checks.

49 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Yeah, I have to agree with DaverWattra here. Force Protection is a sub-optimal talent, especially since you've already spent into the Enhance Tree. The Brawn upgrade control talent does the same thing, does it without a strain cost, and also boosts any Brawn related skill checks.

Force Protection has limited usefulness once Brawn is already at 6 (natural or through Enhance), as it can boost Soak even higher, but it is still a pretty craptastic talent overall.

52 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

1.) Are you using advantage to recover strain? You can do this on a 1:1 basis, and while the GM has the final say, advantage generated on checks outside of combat can also be used in this manner.

I am ONLY using advantage to recover strain. I never get to use it for anything else. GM rules that RAW, the tables '6-2' and '6-3' (pg. 212) are specific only to combat. Every other skill check tells you how Adv. can be spent. So no strain recovery outside of combat that way.

1 hour ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

2.) Are you making your Discipline or Cool check at the end of every encounter to recover strain? Encounter doesn't necessarily have to be combat encounter here, and I would certainly lobby my GM for a such a check after a plot important "non combat" encounter.

Yep, I'm making that single roll. We checked, the only thing specifically designated as an encounter is a combat encounter. He has opened it up to 'after any scene in which you lost strain, you can make a recovery roll after'. Which in my opinion kinda nullifies it.

1 hour ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

3.) Wounds are 'easy' to recover with stimpacks, but you can only use 5 of those in a 24 hour period, and you get diminishing returns for each use.

True, they do have diminishing returns but that is still infinitely more preferable to getting nothing, which is the case for strain.

1 hour ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

4.) Advantages earned on a medicine check to heal wounds (which can be done once per day, or once per encounter if your GM is generous) can be used to recover strain.

Again, also true. Only the rest of the group has zero training in medicine, so I maybe get one strain back from this every now and again.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

One thing you are definitely right about is that Force Protection is terrible. Consider it a dead talent. In ordinary situations it's better not to use it. You may want to try appealing to your GM's conscience to allow you to respec and spend the points you spent on Force Protection elsewhere. It is not work the XP.

However, I had to take it in order to reach my second force point (protector tree).

Honestly Force Protection needs the strain cost stripped off it to be useful...

Then pick up ebb and flow seriously if the GM is going to be a **** about using advantages on noncombat rolls to recover strain then get Ebb and flow so you can recover strain when ever you feel like it.

1 hour ago, KungFuFerret said:

Strain is supposed to represent emotional, and physical fatigue, due to exertion and stress. And taking a 10 minute break is usually enough for any human to catch their breath and be mostly up to full functionality again. Catching your breath is way easier than fixing a gaping chest wound .

That is exactly how it is presented in the fluff but the actual rules in no way reflect this. A stimpack'll fix that caping chest wound in an instant (as long as it's not an actual critical wound), in or out of combat. However, only you get a single discipline or cool check to recover strain outside of combat, and while there may be no difficulty to the roll, only successes count. That averages out at only 2-3 recovered by my roll. which isn't great when your living the combat with an accrued strain of 13-14 out of a maximum of 16 (which has seemed to be the average).

2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

Ebb/flow, my young apprentice. Ebb/Flow.

(From Disciples of Harmony)

9 minutes ago, Decorus said:

Honestly Force Protection needs the strain cost stripped off it to be useful...

Then pick up ebb and flow seriously if the GM is going to be a **** about using advantages on noncombat rolls to recover strain then get Ebb and flow so you can recover strain when ever you feel like it.

I have no idea what ebb/flow is? We don't have the book that that's in.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

I think first aid is actually once per encounter?

You're right. It's per encounter not per day. I think we've been playing this wrong.

Long time player of a Soresu here.

They do devour Strain.

Some good input here, however it does seem like your GM is being a stickler about things. I've never heard of a GM not allowing Advantage to be spent to recover Strain on ANY check. Same with you the definition of Encounter, never heard of a GM limiting that to Combat Encounters.

So, fact 1: your GM is nerfing you.

If they won't budge, I'd roll up a new PC. If you're not having fun, try something that isn't dependant upon a mechanic that your GM is nerfing.

If you're set on trying to make it work, look at the armor mod Biofeedback System (I think is what it's called). Raises Strain Threshold by 4. Helps a bit.

As others have pointed out, Ebb/Flow.

Also there are lightsaber Crystals and Mods that can help you out. Add automatic Advantage to every check, add Boosts, there maybe a Crystal even that manipulates Strain directly I want to say? etc.

Aside front that stuff, you're doing all you can. Manage Strain through Action choice, spending Advantage.

But yea, mostly your GM is boning you.

Ebb and Flow is in disciples of Harmony

Basic power flow

When the force user makes a skill check he/she may roll a flow power check as part of the roll the user may spend force pip to heal 1 strain. This may not be activated multiple times.

Ebb lets you inflict strain when you make skill checks.

Upgrades increase the amount of strain you can recover or strain you can inflict.

Control lets you add advantages or successes to your next check or threats and failures to your opponents next checks.

Magnitude lets you exclude people from your short range inflict strain on everyone with ebb...

Or as people refer to it in this forums the broken beyond all redeeming qualities force power.

Please note I usually use Ataru so my strain does wild and crazy things which preclude my use of ebb/flow in combat usually...

27 minutes ago, emsquared said:

If you're set on trying to make it work, look at the armor mod Biofeedback System (I think is what it's called). Raises Strain Threshold by 4. Helps a bit.

Also there are lightsaber Crystals and Mods that can help you out. Add automatic Advantage to every check, add Boosts, there maybe a Crystal even that manipulates Strain directly I want to say? etc.

Yeah, I looked at these things (I've looked at everything in the rulebook to try and figure this out). However, we're playing in the rebellion era, as such those things are all super rare and super expensive.

Biofeedback armour mod only fits on armoured robes, which are rare, expensive and only available on the black market. The same for any of the kyber crystals or meditation focus.

I think I only have about 500 credits in personal wealth, what little money the group gets goes on tricking out their guns and our ship.

For a long time, I only had a training lightsaber and I consider myself luck I got 'given' a real one (found it in an old jedi temple).

1 hour ago, Dark Star said:

However, I had to take it in order to reach my second force point (protector tree).

Right, with my protector PC I routed around through heightened awareness, which isn't the best but is better than Force protection.

Like several people have said, Ebb/Flow is a solid option. I'd offer Sense should be a priority over enhance for the ability to take less damage overall. Although this does affect the amount of FD you roll for Ebb/Flow so it's a trade off.

Maybe go Ebb/Flow for now since you're already in enhance and think about Sense later or if you do a respec.

As for the +4 strain armor mod, it sounds like the group is taking all the money to enhance their enjoyment of the game. Nodding the ship I understand, but if they're modding their weapons at the expense of you getting even some cheap armor that could add the +Strain mod then that's pretty crappy.

IIRC biofeedback system goes on any full body armor. There's got to be a cheaper option unless you're set on the robes.

31 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

I think I only have about 500 credits in personal wealth, what little money the group gets goes on tricking out their guns and our ship.

If you're tanking for the whole group, the whole group should be willing to finance your tanking ability.

Or at the very least they need to spend a few XP picking up the ability to patch you up afterward.

As folks mentioned, pushing for Ebb/Flow is by far the best fix for this. In its absence you can look at strain pool upgrades. Intense Presence in the Makashi tree might be of interest if you have 3+ Presence. Normally flipping destiny to recover strain is sub-optimal use of the group's resources ... but if they're selfishly not helping you out, perhaps in this particular case it might be called for.

Another possibility is picking up Supreme Parry (you're already in Soresu tree) and Supreme Reflect (Shien tree) and using force powers instead of lightsaber until your team has gotten through some of the minions. Battle Meditation, Bind, Misdirect and Move (can't smash and use the Supremes, but you can move range bands around) are all possibilities as well as ...

... if all else fails and you have a decent Intellect, take Force Heal with the control upgrade for healing strain. Then you can alternate turns between healing and striking.

2 hours ago, Dark Star said:

3 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

1.) Are you using advantage to recover strain? You can do this on a 1:1 basis, and while the GM has the final say, advantage generated on checks outside of combat can also be used in this manner.

I am ONLY using advantage to recover strain. I never get to use it for anything else. GM rules that RAW, the tables '6-2' and '6-3' (pg. 212) are specific only to combat. Every other skill check tells you how Adv. can be spent. So no strain recovery outside of combat that way.

Your GM can run it anyway they choose, but their interpretation is not RAW, and the developers have stated you can use advantage to recover strain on non-combat rolls.

Find the dev answer to advantage strain recovery outside of combat and show it to your GM. If he's a stickler for the rules, he should accept it.

The biofeedback mod can go on any full body armor with enough hard points so laminate and heavy battle armor are always options. And it's not like there aren't a crap ton of suits of laminate available from the stories you kill. It may take a squad or two to pick up enough pieces if your GM says that some are damaged, but it shouldn't be too hard. Also the guardian book(?), the one with armorer, has the rules for making your own full body armor of any variety.

5 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Your GM can run it anyway they choose, but their interpretation is not RAW, and the developers have stated you can use advantage to recover strain on non-combat rolls.

I can see the GM's rationale--the dev ruling on strain and advantage does create an incentive for players to trump up opportunities for gratuitous skill rolls just to recover strain. At least in structured encounters the action limit prevents this. So I could see prohibiting it outside structured encounters.

39 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I can see the GM's rationale--the dev ruling on strain and advantage does create an incentive for players to trump up opportunities for gratuitous skill rolls just to recover strain. At least in structured encounters the action limit prevents this. So I could see prohibiting it outside structured encounters.

I can see this being a GM's rationale for sure (I certainly would not allow superfluous skill checks just to try to get advantages to recover strain), but the OP suggested the GM was stating RAW you can't spend advantages outside of structured time which is not correct, and there is a post in the Developer Answered Questions that clarifies as such.

Thought of another suggestion for the OP: Try to become a light side paragon ASAP. That raises your strain threshold.

Also of note: There is a lesson here for "nice" GMs who are first and foremost out to show their players a good time. If one of your players is running low on strain in a session and it's hobbling the player's fun factor, give that player a couple of nice, easy opportunities to use one of their best skills before the next combat encounter! Obviously you should try not to make it too blatant, but used in moderation this is a good tool for GMs in situations where your players have run low on strain due to unlucky rolls or miscalculating the toughness of their opposition.

4 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Thought of another suggestion for the OP: Try to become a light side paragon ASAP. That raises your strain threshold.

What is a 'light side paragon' and how do I get it? I'm being about as 'light side' as I can be.