2 minutes ago, QuickWhit said:

Ravos' stat line isn't really a problem. It's his flexibility and his mobility. The few times I got to play against Ravos before my opponents started using insatiable hunger, he was inconsequential. The most relevant thing he did was give my whole army panic at the beginning of the game (which is admittedly not nothing). If he can't get where he wants to go, he is not that hard to gun down, and he can potentially be forced into an engagement with infantry, where he does not want to be.

Think of it this way: Would Ardus be considerably better if he had precise and one more die?

I would argue not. He still is going to have trouble choosing engagements. He still has to act early in the round and can't respond to late charges. He still won't be able to out charge much of anything.

Also consider that your custom hero did not have the drawback of having to eat, which is something that is a draw back for Ravos if he does not have the mobility that insatiable hunger gives him.

Even w/o Insatiable Hunger, you could always deploy him next to Berserkers or Flesh Rippers making the "drawback" into a 1 or 2 round mild-inconvenience. I say "drawback" because once you get into range of enemy siege units or heroes, it turns into a huge benefit that more than outweighs 1 or 2 dead Berserker models.

I would also argue that Ardus with precise 1 and 1 more die would be pretty insane since it would synergize well with his ability that wants to see more surges, increase his damage by roughly 50% and make it so you're effectively always taking Ancient Technique AND Ardus' Fury. He would still need to be near allies to use his ability, but that's the point of the hero. Ardus isn't meant to be as much of a loner hero as Aliana Summersong, for example.

I just think that 3 dice with brutal and precise needs to cost around 45 unless you either have no durability or no maneuverability. So yes, you could reduce his mobility as well and use that as a solution, but you'd have to really tank it and changing dials is harder than changing a statline.

I'll put it this way, would Ravos be worth his points if he had 1 less die and no precise and instead cost around 36-38 points? I'd say so, most likely. His damage would become way less consistent and would max out at smaller numbers as well. He'd have more in the way of direct fighting potential than Ardus, but less opportunities for big synergy. If you disagree you could be right of course, but that further acknowledges that 1 die and precise 1 is a really big deal.

Then again, I've never found Ardus to be very underpowered (maybe like, 2 points underpowered if at all). He just requires a very different setup and playstyle that requires most of your build to be centered on utilizing him effectively.

I mean... sure Ravos is OP he’s clearly the best at everything.

-His army “buff” is the worst in the game save maybe Maegan. A panic token for all enemy units matters only if your opponent brought an army relying on exhaustable cards and didn’t bring a mechanic beyond Rally to ready them.

-Low armor means chip damage that normally bounces off other heroes goes through.

-An ability that become a liability if you want to run him out wide on flanks. That forces him to stay tucked in the army unlike any other hero. That reduces his flexibility or forces high risk.

-The third strongest surge effect on a hero behind Kari and Maegan.

-He’s got no ranged attack

I mean Jesus, it’s not like all he has to offer is speed and melee damage.

/end sarcasm/

He offers nothing but melee carnage. He had best be good at it

Well at least i know its not just me...

14 minutes ago, Church14 said:

 -His army “buff” is the worst in the game save maybe Maegan. A panic token for all enemy units matters only if your opponent brought an army relying on exhaustable cards and didn’t bring a mechanic beyond Rally to ready them.

I'll disagree with you on this one. Lots of excellent upgrades are exhausted on use (Tempered Steel, Fortuna's Dice, and Dispatch Runner come to mind as utilized by all four factions). Latari can bring a rally mechanic (kinda), Daqan doesn't care at all, but Uthuk and Waiqar often suffer a good deal by rallying turn one. Uthuk's speed can already put the opponent on their back foot. Having to rally and sacrifice positioning before their turn two charges OR position as per normal and deal with the morale means enabling some of Uthuk's stronger units. Threshers in particular love the choice Ravos forces the opponent to make.

18 minutes ago, Church14 said:

    -Low armor means chip damage that normally bounces off other heroes goes through.

Low armor can be an issue, but he can also defense up at i2 if need be. Moreover, his defense is based on being fast and offensive. If your opponent is hanging him out to dry, then s/he is not utilizing terrain and Insatiable Hunger well (at least from my experience). Finally, the 14 total damage needed to push through to kill Ravos is a higher total than all the other heroes (in a vacuum, of course).

22 minutes ago, Church14 said:

   -An ability that become a liability if you want to run him out wide on flanks. That forces him to stay tucked in the army unlike any other hero. That reduces his flexibility or forces high risk.

I just don't know about this either. I think I've seen Ravos self harm under five times across many, many games. I've seen him take a bite from a Flesh Ripper at times, which is fairly inconsequential. I routinely see opponents bring him out wide and utilize Insatiable Hunger to bank into terrain late (and then bite units with a huge range).

25 minutes ago, Church14 said:

   -The third strongest surge effect on a hero behind Kari and Maegan.

Not sure how exactly to quantify these against one another. Kari's is absurdly good, for certain (it also requires a few surges to actually matter). Maegan's ability is strong too, but the chance of massive amounts of surges does take a bit of luck (3/8 surge sides on blue, 4/12 surge sides on white, 1/8 surge sides on red). Basically, she is boom or bust--good for a gamble, but hard to rely on.

Ravos has an extremely high chance of surge with re-rolls. Doing one wound (not mortal) for the cost of a surge is phenomenal against d3+. Even against d2, it is equal to a normal hit anyway.

Even then, the "third strongest" surge ability is still in the upper 25% of heroes when accounting for the new ones.

29 minutes ago, Church14 said:

      -He’s got no ranged attack

Neither does Ardus, Lord V, Hawthorne, Aliana, Prince F, Thuk'tar and Gorgemaw. So about half the other chars share this weakness.

Ravos is not without weakness, but he is the alpha hero and clearly S-Tier along with Aliana.

29 minutes ago, Church14 said:

His  army “buff” is the worst in the game save maybe Ma  egan. A panic token for all enemy units matters only if your opponent brought an army relying on exhaustable cards and didn’t bring a mechanic beyond Rally to re  ady th  em 

I think you're undervaluing this trait. Don't forget that Uthick are the fastest army, and so you end up engaged much sooner than against other armies. That means the opposing army might not be able to stack any inspiration tokens at all so any exhaust ables become single use items.

Beyond that Uthick utilize panic tests and so any leg up helps. This also means the initial attack with Spined Threshers get that reroll right off the back (and if not the target probably had to sit still while they got rid of it).

Also I plan on spamming sorceress es once danarti are out so Meagan's boon seems pretty cool to me.

36 minutes ago, JGrand said:

I'll   disagree    with you on this one. Lots of excellent upgrades are exhausted on use (Tempered Steel, Fortuna's Dice, and Dispatch Runner come to mind as utilized by all four factions). Latari can bring a rally mechanic (kinda), Daqan doesn't care at all, but Uthuk and Waiqar often suffer a good deal by rallying turn one. Uthuk's speed can already put the opponent on their back foot. Having to rally and sacrifice positioning before their turn two charges OR pos  ition as per normal and deal with the morale means enabling some of Uthuk's stronger u  nits. Threshers in particular love the choice Ravos forces the opponent to make.   

32 minutes ago, Xquer said:

I think you're undervaluing this trait. Don't forget that Uthick are the fastest army, and so you end up engaged much sooner than against other armies. That means the opposing army might not be able to stack any inspiration tokens at all so any exhaust ables become single use items.

Beyond that Uthick utilize panic tests and so any leg up helps. This also means the initial attack with Spined Threshers get that reroll right off the back (and if not the target probably had to sit still while they got rid of it).

Also I plan on spamming sorceress es once danarti are out so Meagan's boon seems pretty cool to me.

I’ve said my shtick at length before but the short of it is: Three factions have a rallying musician and Daqan get two heroes that can provide a lot of inspiration. Latari (and likely Uthuk) are able to run Dispatch/Simul/Rallying on a 4 tray archers for a very effective rallying/support battery. So Waiqar (who don’t run much exhaustable) get hurt by it. Any army that leans on exhaust cards and doesn’t bring rallying is asking for trouble already. Ravos just punishes it harder. So to me, largely a useless ability if my opponent built a sensible army. Very useful if they didn’t.

Sure, Threshers get a reroll, from it... if they didn’t already put a panic token on the unit they are attacking anyway. Being only able to charge speed 3 means they probably ended up in range to give out panic tokens before attacking anyway.

36 minutes ago, JGrand said:

Not  sure how exactly to quantify these against one another. Kari's is absurdly good, for certain (it als  o requires a few surges to actually matter). Maegan's ability is strong too, but the chance of massive amounts of surges does take a bit of luck (3/8 surge sides on blue, 4/12 surge sides on white, 1/  8 surge sides on red). Basically, she is boom or bust--good for a gamble, but hard to rely on. 

Quantify is a bit hard. Kari’s surge strength isn’t raw damage, but the fact that she can target something like 4 square feet of the table, which given that battles tend to not cover most of the table, is a LOT. No LOS or arc requirements, just a potential attack against whatever is the most important thing to hit at that moment. Vaporize 2 Cavalry so one of your units can suddenly be disengaged and perform an unexpected charge? Sure. I’ve seen that.

Maegan... is less consistent than I make her sound but the upper ceiling on her damage output is bonkers. With Fortuna’s Dice, it’s realistic to hope for 4 surges between dice and modifier. With a little planning and a turn with 4 Unstable, that is 16-20 damage against an army. No other hero comes close without pulling a Betrayal.

The greater point is that Ravos is a very specialized hero who does one thing very well (hunt armor) and that’s about it. He doesn’t do a bunch of stuff like (nearly) all other heroes.

29 minutes ago, Church14 said:

The greater point is that Ravos is a very specialized hero who does one thing very well (hunt armor) and that’s about it. He doesn’t do a bunch of stuff like (nearly) all other heroes.

I would disagree that he is a one trick pony. He is also very good at:

-Hunting archers

-Flanking blobs and making them take at least strength 2 panic tests each attack (dial in 2), which can be devestating, especially if you run the morale deck manipulation.

-Supporting a "panic" army by having Fear incarnate. This can easily build up 20+ damage from him without even attacking. What is the theoretical (but highly unlikely) maximum of this one? 56 damage? (7 rounds with tests, average 2 strength morale, 4 tests per round).

2 hours ago, Willange said:

Even w/o Insatiable Hunger, you could always deploy him next to Berserkers or Flesh Rippers making the "drawback" into a 1 or 2 round mild-inconvenience. I say "drawback" because once you get into range of enemy siege units or heroes, it turns into a huge benefit that more than outweighs 1 or 2 dead Berserker models.

This is exactly the draw back. It's not only that he may at some point deal a wound to himself. It's that you have to prevent him from doing a wound to himself. This means deploying and moving him with another unit, which gives severe limitations to his ability to maneuver around and get into the back field where he shines. It also means that the huge benefit of dealing direct wounds is harder to leverage because your opponent has a much greater opportunity to put him into infantry instead of armor.

2 hours ago, Willange said:

I would also argue that Ardus with precise 1 and 1 more die would be pretty insane since it would synergize well with his ability that wants to see more surges, increase his damage by roughly 50% and make it so you're effectively always taking Ancient Technique AND Ardus' Fury. He would still need to be near allies to use his ability, but that's the point of the hero. Ardus isn't meant to be as much of a loner hero as Aliana Summersong, for example.

Ardus' surge synergy is already insanely good with 2 dice. Ardus Fury with surge on the dial with CI archers behind him shuts down anything with 2 dice automatically. It is amazing... when it works.... which it rarely does. The problem is his dial, which means he can only really counter punch. Often he either won't get into combat or will end up in a mismatch he can't win due to his lack of mobility and versatility. One more die and a reroll won't fix that.

2 hours ago, Willange said:

I'll put it this way, would Ravos be worth his points if he had 1 less die and no precise and instead cost around 36-38 points? I'd say so, most likely. His damage would become way less consistent and would max out at smaller numbers as well. He'd have more in the way of direct fighting potential than Ardus, but less opportunities for big synergy. If you disagree you could be right of course, but that further acknowledges that 1 die and precise 1 is a really big deal.

With Insatiable Hunger? Absolutely! He would still be extremely mobile, still get to auto wound things at the end of every round, still gets auto wounds for surges, which you can still occasionally hit with two dice, and is still excellent at flanking things. Sure he'd (obviously) be weaker and might take an extra round to chew threw something, but that is made up for by the extra engagement or two you are going to get by getting a free turn 2 after finishing off a unit you just flanked. He'd still be well worth the points.

Note that I'm not trying to downplay the power of having 3 dice and precision. Obviously it is good. However, it is important to understand that the reason Ravos can leverage his power is his mobility with insatiable hunger. It allows him to almost completely mitigate any downside in his eating ability, which is significant, and then allows him to control who he engages with, and then nets him extra engagements after quickly chewing through high armor low wound targets.

2 hours ago, Maktorius said:

I would disagree that he is a one trick pony. He is also very good at:

-Hunting archers

-Flanking blobs and making them take at least strength 2 panic tests each attack (dial in 2), which can be devestating, especially if you run the morale deck manipulation.

-Supporting a "panic" army by having Fear incarnate. This can easily build up 20+ damage from him without even attacking. What is the theoretical (but highly unlikely) maximum of this one? 56 damage? (7 rounds with tests, average 2 strength morale, 4 tests per round).

He actually is a whopping meh at hunting archers. Both his surge and end of turn chomp are least efficient against 1/1 targets. He is better at hunting melee infantry. His melee damage output is solid and will kill 1.5-2 trays a turn, but his only way to really smash infantry is to cause Betrayals. Betrayals don’t do much against archers but do do a lot to a DeathStar.

Fear Incarnate usually racks up around 8-12 for me. I’ve never seen 20.

Using you same logic and applying it to other heroes:

Maegan’s surge (which doesn’t cost another 5 points) will usually rack up at least 20. You typically get to splash the target and one other and probably average 2-3 surges. So about 5 extra damage a round and probably 5 rounds of shooting.

Under ideal circumstances - Maegan, 7 rounds of attacks, 3 surges per round, hits on average 3 other units besides target. 7*3*4: 84 Damage. In you include Malcornes to weight the runes, maybe up to 112 Damage.

43 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Maegan’s surge (which  doesn’t cost another 5 po  ints) will usually rack up at least 20.

Not to one target. This is a very misleading statement. Her bomb damage is also spread out among many units.

At range you would need a blue and a white to produce 4 surges, and dial one up (1/12 and 1/8) and have red runes enough to reach 4 targets to get 20 damage.

Engaged you would need two red dice (1/8) and 1 blue (3/8) and a white (3/12) to total 6 surges and still have the runes to get 3 units.

In no statistical sense is this 'usual'.

Also her bomb is a surge ability, which means it does not sum with her damage pool.

I can see her being a pain to the Uthuk becasue of their low armor values, but that might be it other than infantry heavy metas. She's not doing a lot to lancers, golems, scions, oathsworn, death knights or leonx. Or for that matter to threshers or Ravos. Her bread and butter is infantry and maybe flesh rippers.

34 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

Not to one target. This is a very misleading statement. Her bomb damage is also spread out among many units.

At range you would need a blue and a white to produce 4 surges, and dial one up (1/12 and 1/8) and have red runes enough to reach 4 targets to get 20 damage.

Engaged you would need two red dice (1/8) and 1 blue (3/8) and a white (3/12) to total 6 surges and still have the runes to get 3 units.

In no statistical sense is this 'usual'.

Also her bomb is a surge ability, which means it does not sum with her damage pool.

I can see her being a pain to the Uthuk becasue of their low armor values, but that might be it other than infantry heavy metas. She's not doing a lot to lancers, golems, scions, oathsworn, death knights or leonx. Or for that matter to threshers or Ravos. Her bread and butter is infantry and maybe flesh rippers.

I meant 20 over the 8 rounds. Though with Fortuna’s Dice I have seen 20 in a single shot several times.

Having 2 surges (with mod) is pretty common. 3 is less so but should happen 2 times a game or better. 2 surges hurts all infantry, most cavalry, all of Uthuk but Kethra, and Scions on a bad turn. 3 hurts everything but some armored up heroes and Rune Golems.

5 minutes ago, Church14 said:

I meant 20 over the 8 rounds. Though with Fortuna’s Dice I have seen 20 in a single shot severa  l tim  es. 

Fair. But Maegan doesnt get precise, or brutal. Red, white, blue with precise and brutal gets you quite a bit and another unique auto wound.

7 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Having 2 surges (with mod) is p  retty common. 3 is less so but should happen 2 times a game or better. 2 surges hurts all infantry  , most c  avalry, all o  f Uthuk but Kethra, and Scions on a bad turn.  3 hurts every  thing but  some armored up heroes and Rune Golems.

Unfortunately (for me mostly, but also other latari players), she cant fish for surges. Also for best results she needs to be engaged, which at 2/4 (protected blue) is scary for the Maegan player (especially when youre in airhead mode and forget you're protected).

After playing a handful of games as Uthuk I honestly think heroless they are balanced. I am not the greatest player, but I never lost with Uthuk and Ravos is hands down the MVP every game. On the flip side I've never had another hero be the MVP every time (next closest is actually Kari, and in all honesty you should pick on her over Maegan). After playing with and against Ravos I think the biggest issue is you can 'hide' him behind a line of something like threshers and still auto damage.

Ok, we're doing this again...

My only problems with Ravos: insatiable hunger, should sequence after he feeds, not before.

7 wounds with a regen mechanic was a bad idea, it's far to wide of a damage stack to not see massive benefits from viscera goblet. I suppose it could be argued that if paired against the right units it's not going to ever trigger. But if he plows into a group of blockers he walks out primed to regen. Every other regen is much harder to trigger in the small 3-5 hp window everything else has. This worries me slightly.

Now, the reason we should all just be quiet and take it for a few more months...

I LIKES ME ELVES HEREOS HOW THEY IS!!! If uthuk get a nerf it's highly likely to see some pushback on latari as well, and I really, really like my Latari. So let's just keep things where they are and see if it balances when the game reaches symmetry.

Fun fact, Faolan has more flat damage absorption than ravos, is more maneuverable, and can roll 6 dice on a flank and on a good turn and keeps 5. Oh ya, he's also precise and brutal.

I get as frustrated as anyone fighting uthuk, But still, Let's just see where the game goes.

Aren't demons supposed to be scary? Heck, so are the undead, with an inevitable grind coming your way.... No one seems to really fear Waiqar though.

Heroes should...

• feel heroic
• turn the tide of battle
• command forces
• be imposing
• unsettle armies

Individual heroes can do all those things, some with more fluency than others. With people feeling that the game was balanced around the full release of units that are just being announced, there will be more power added to the old factions. When the Uthuk burst onto the scene, they should be scary as heck. There are demons running rampant through the fields for crying out loud!!! New things will take adjustments, but balance will happen. When the Latari hit just before worlds... how many Latari armies were fielded in the wild? They took Worlds though. Are they stronger than any other factions? maybe, maybe not. Uthuk tactics are starting to be understood and countered. There is still a long road ahead to get the factions to parity.

8 hours ago, Jukey said:

Now  , the reason we should all just be quiet and take it for a few more  mo  nths...   

The reasons we shouldn’t: Worlds. Last year and this year. New hotness seems to have the advantage. Maybe not as much this year since there is a bigger gap between uthuk release and worlds. If this is truly meant to be a single faction game we need symmetry in the releases after ever faction is ever back up.

I also agree in principle though. I’ll be less afraid of Ravos when I get darnati, and even less concerned when wraiths and ventalla get released. (I didn’t mention scouts because I thin Daqan armor and crossbows are well equipped to deal with Uthuk in general).

but back on topic to the OP... I think upgrade cards and the FAQ changes should be enough to put an overpowered faction back in its place.

9 hours ago, Jukey said:

Ok, we're doing this again...

But... we like doing this... don't we? (I do...)

9 hours ago, Jukey said:

I LIKES ME ELVES HEREOS HOW THEY IS!!! If uthuk get a nerf it's highly likely to see some pushback on latari as well, and I really, really like my Latari. So let's just keep things where they are and see if it balances when the game reaches symmetry.

This is a bit of a slippery slope argument. Before Uthuk hit the shelves I played alot against Latari. It was a new problem to solve. It was hard. I lost a few games. But it was a ton of fun and I figured it out. Now I play Latari pretty close with Waiqar most of the time. I've probably won more than I've lost against them at this point.

This is not the way it has gone with Uthuk... at all...

Nobody (that I know of) is complaining about the power level of the Latari heroes. In my perception they are really well balanced are not in danger of being looked at for a nerf.

In my opinion Uthuk is strong for every unit, some more than others. Ravos is not the only problem. Honestly threshers is just too strong/durible, quite mobile and got panic genneration.

With a ten - twenty point subtraction for their list building could be a temporarly solution. The problem is that their more balanced units (berserkers, flesh rippers) would get unjustly phunished.

I agree with the notion that FAQ shuld try too balance the game. But balancing units with a set cost, wound, armor can be hard.

Realeasing new units and upgrades for the comparativly «underpowered» factions could be a solution. Altough powercreep could lead too obsolete units and upgrades.

As mentioned an applicatin would be the best solution.

I would rather they go over too a app based system then having too deal with irreversible powercreep over multiple years.

I know there is an argument of decresed recrution with a big change but imbalanced gameplay can be as or more dammaging over time. One of runewars sellingpoints is the good gameplay so having a proactive ffg could be sellingpoint for the game.

One of the cool bits about the app system is it allows for variable cost. So an upgrade might change depending on how many ranks you're taking. Specific unit combos could be priced more appropriately. I really like how much more flexibility in balance it gives. I hope it filters down to other FFG mini games once they get it settled with xwing.

1 hour ago, theruleslawyer said:

One of the cool bits about the app system is it allows for variable cost. So an upgrade might change depending on how many ranks you're taking. Specific unit combos could be priced more appropriately. I really like how much more flexibility in balance it gives. I hope it filters down to other FFG mini games once they get it settled with xwing.

Yeah. The app system would help nerf or buff cards that were a little off in cost. Though it doesn’t allow to correct for fundamental issues with the mechanics of a card. Errata is still needed for that.

I am all of the app. I would love to see a variable cost for some cards. Like “1+#trays” as a cost for Wind Rune or something similar.

I thought of another fun App thing.

Anyone play counter strike with dynamic weapon pricing? The app could do something like that. Keep track of all the lists submitted for competitive play per quarter. Go and update card cost based on frequency of use. If everyone and their brother is using it, it gets more expensive next quarter. If its a card that nobody uses now, reduce the cost. Eventually you'd get cards priced by what the community itself thinks the value is. And more importantly the players using the card would be bidding against themselves. Is scuttling horror a problem? Maybe it goes up 3-4pts until people are choosing to run without it. It would also be able identify cards with problem abilities. Does a card have no takers even at 1pt? Is the cost for an upgrade more than a couple standard deviations outside the norm? Such a system would probably settle in with cards only changing a single point each update aside from new wave disruptions. Plus it would make an established meta really hard to form. If you couldn't rely on the points from a 'net list' being the same you couldn't just download the latest OP list and play. It should result in a much wider range of builds.

On 8/30/2018 at 2:47 PM, theruleslawyer said:

One of the cool bits about the app system is it allows for variable cost. So an upgrade might change depending on how many ranks you're taking. Specific unit combos could be priced more appropriately. I really like how much more flexibility in balance it gives. I hope it filters down to other FFG mini games once they get it settled with xwing.

The biggest issue with the app is that it completely invalidates your entire collection. Every single pilot and upgrade card, both standard and alt art, were made redundant, as was the cardboard used for the ships themselves. So whilst I like the idea of an app and the flexibility it brings, I don't like having my stuff being reduced to bonfire fuel.

For Rune Wars, this would likely mean unit, upgrade, deployment and objective cards would be moved to the app. The app would also likely have the rules reference, how to play guide as well as the most current FAQ on there as well as every single unit's dial reference. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if it had a link to the forums on there. Now whilst all that is certainly nice, personally, I like having the cards as an easy reference point, I think it adds to the aesthetic of the game plus the artwork is kinda cool. Additionally, the alt art cards for units, upgrades and deployments, etc flesh out prize support for OP kits.

Personally, I think overpowered can be handled by slowly bringing other units up to touch. New banners, music, artifacts, army wide buffs, terrain cards, etc. I think that would balance it out in the end.

17 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

Personally, I think overpowered can be handled by slowly bringing other units up to touch. New banners, music, artifacts, army wide buffs, terrain cards, etc. I think that would balance it out in the end.

I agree that this is the likely outcome, though I'm not sure that is the path I would personally prefer. Think of the game in a state where all units are balanced against the 2x1 Spined Threshers with Scuttling horror. It's almost a different game compared to that which was in the core boxes. A super slugfest whithout much information which you can calculate tactically on.

26 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

The biggest issue with the app is that it completely invalidates your entire collection. Every single pilot and upgrade card, both standard and alt art, were made redundant, as was the cardboard used for the ships themselves. So whilst I like the idea of an app and the flexibility it brings, I don't like having my stuff being reduced to bonfire fuel.

I'm not sure why you'd think that. You still use cards. The points are just no longer on them. In the case of Runewars they could just Errata all points to say look at the app. Otherwise cards would remain unchanged.

Quote

For Rune Wars, this would likely mean unit, upgrade, deployment and objective cards would be moved to the app. The app would also likely have the rules reference, how to play guide as well as the most current FAQ on there as well as every single unit's dial reference. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if it had a link to the forums on there. Now whilst all that is certainly nice, personally, I like having the cards as an easy reference point, I think it adds to the aesthetic of the game plus th  e artwork is kinda cool. Additionally, the alt art cards for units, upgrades and deployments, etc flesh out prize support for OP kits.

Personally, I think overpowered can be handled by slowl  y bringing other units up to touch. New banners, music, artifacts, army wide buffs, terrain cards, etc. I think that would balance it out in the end.

All that sounds awesome. I'm sure FFG will still print card as reference and require cards at their tournaments. Its in their best interest in terms of selling product. However being able to immediate look at your list and see an errata'd version of each card sounds amazing.

Fixing the OP by power creep is a TERRIBLE idea. It invalidates older units. The trouble is that it is an unending cycle. The next wave there is a new OP so you have to rebalance that in the next next wave. Its how we ended up with an x-wing 2.0 and an app for it. That's not a path I want to take if we can avoid it from the start.

If they don't move to an app I'd much much much rather see them do an errata on problem units. I don't like errata, It makes playing the game annoying with paper components. However is still better than power creep.