26 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I took    it to mean          that when they said "2" they meant "2   maneuver dials and at least two separate                  pilot  bases," with nothing about whether or not those bases could b  e   the same     . 

Out of curiosity, why would you assume that the pilot bases wouldn't all be for the same pilot? I mean, they didn't say they wouldn't be, did they? And they've done exactly that (same pilot on both sides of a token) on at least one previous product. Wasn't that an unwarranted assumption to make?

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Out of curiosity, why would you assume that the pilot bases wouldn't all be for the same pilot? I mean, they didn't say they wouldn't be, did they? And they've done exactly that (same pilot on both sides of a token) on at least one previous product. Wasn't that an unwarranted assumption to make?

I didn't assume they wouldn't be. Just as I didn't assume they would be.

I'm sure I have made unwarranted assumptions (it's impossible to never make assumptions), but he asked how we interpret that line, and I told him how I interpreted it.

3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

I'm sorry if you feel misled, but I would have thought someone so aware of how marketing works would be a bit more cautious about differentiating between what the company says and what the community infers. As I've said, I haven't seen a lot of the promotional material, so I can't speak to how much FFG actually implied, but I'm 100% certain (based on my experience with other release articles) that the community bears at least a little blame for misleading itself and reading more into some statements than even the most optimistic outlook could really justify.

In short, you may be right and FFG may have been deliberately misleading. However, even if that's the case, I have a hard time seeing how the community reached some of the conclusions they did unless they misled themselves a fair bit, too.

I took it to mean that when they said "2" they meant "2 maneuver dials and at least two separate pilot bases," with nothing about whether or not those bases could be the same. Adding a single generic pilot might help in many cases, but they'd either have to print more cardboard or remove one of the unique pilots to make space. I get that people who fly swarms are disappointed, but there's something to be said for having more unique options, too.

It doesn't necessarily work for extremely casual games where you're throwing a list together after arriving at the store, but for more organized play that's a really good and considerate idea!

Between the conversion kits and the support offered by the X-Wing squad builder app, you’ll have everything that you need to completely customize your squadron and play with all of your existing ships in the game’s second edition

5 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

Between the conversion kits and the support offered by the X-Wing squad builder app, you’ll have everything that you need to completely customize your squadron and play with all of your existing ships in the game’s second edition

com·plete

kəmˈplēt /

adjective

1. 1 .

   having all the necessary or appropriate parts.

Ok, and which of your ships can you not play with?

On 7/10/2018 at 4:00 PM, JamesWG said:

But... FFG never said the card only packs would contain "everything" from the ships re-released in the wave. They've said it would contain new cards that don't come in the Core Set or the Conversion Kit. Which is EXACTLY what the scum kit baggie contains. No more and no less.

People have been speculating that the card-only packs will contain extra generics or extra copies of previously released upgrades. I think those people are going to be disappointed. Similar to how those who missed or ignored "by maneuver dials included" are disappointed now.

Now the Fang article does have one statement that is flat out untrue (assuming the Fang expansion includes the Afterburners upgrade):

"All of the ship and upgrade cards included in the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack can also be found in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit. "

Though I really think this is more a misstatement than an intentional lie. I think what they meant to say is "All of the ship and upgrade cards included in the Fang Fighter Expansion Pack can also be found in the Scum and Villainy Conversion Kit or the Core Set. "

On 7/10/2018 at 4:11 PM, Jeff Wilder said:

At this point I have to wonder ... is there any circumstance in which you would start to wonder whether FFG's "misstatements" and "completely literal truths that should have been obvious" and so on are actually less than honest?

If so, what's your threshold?

If not ... ?

OK, let me make clear that I do find that FFG has been less then fully transparent in their marketing language for 2.0. It is unfortunate that they have felt the need for such... weaselly... tactics rather than trust that their product and distribution model could stand the full light of day. Though you've already gone over reasons why from a bottom line perspective it might be in FFG's best interest to be a little misleading in order to build maximum hype. It's not a choice I'd like to believe I'd make in their shoes, but I can understand the choice.

But there is a difference between being somewhat misleading and outright lying. They have been pretty careful not to lie to this point. This is why I suspect that the line from the Fang article is more case of a misstatement than a lie.

FFG has been pretty clear that, for veteran players, they consider the new Core Set and one or more Conversion Kits as the Baseline. And that the card only packs for re-released ships will only include the new stuff that is not included in the Baseline. The stuff in the baggie from the Scum Conversion Kit is exactly that; it is the pilots and upgrades from the Fang and Slave I expansions not otherwise in the Kit or Core. Since the contents of that baggie match what I expected to see there I'll chalk the inaccurate line from the article to sloppy wording. Lord knows we've seen plenty of article mistakes in the past so this should not be surprising.

Note I'm assuming that there are not other pilots/upgrades in the Fang and Slave I expansions that are NOT in the Kit or Core. If once the expansions are fully spoiled we find out otherwise, THEN I'll be fully onboard in calling FFG outright dishonest.