DWARF CANNON CREW
Forced: After this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card

with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able. Then shuffle your deck.

What if...

1) I don't find any support card... shuffle the deck or put the card on top of deck?

2) I play it in my Kingdom Zone and I find only Grudge Thrower (useless if i play it in KZ)...

Can I say "i don't find anything" so I can reshuffle my deck/or put the cards on top or I must play the Thrower in KZ?

Thx for help and sorry for bad english...

lucarov said:

1. You shuffle your deck whatever you might find.

2. That's a risk. You must put into play a found support card if you can.

thx!!!

2) ok, but the opponent doesn't see the 5 cards... so I can declare that I have not find anything...

I'm pretty sure lucarov is correct. The cards are not revealed to other players, so the DCC player would not be _required_ to find (and put into play) a support card. There's no way to enforce an honor-system ruling.

lucarov said:

as long as you don't have a sneaky look on your face lol because card doesnt say reveal. I think the 'if able' part is meant to prohibit putting cards in the zone that couldn't go there normally anyway, like '...zone only' cards.

Hi.

You don have to shuffle your deck if you don find the card or if you cant play it.

from the faqs.

Multiple Effects
If a card has multiple effects, all effects
on the card resolve if possible. These
effects resolve independently of each
other with the following important
exception:
If a card uses the word “then” the
preceding effect must have resolved
successfully before the effect following
the term “then” can be resolved.
For example: Dwarf Cannon Crew (CC 8)
reads “Forced: After this unit enters play,
search the top five cards of your deck for a
support card with cost 2 or lower and put
it into this zone, if able. Then shuffle your
deck.” Shuffling your deck will only happen
if the preceding effect of searching the top
five cards of your deck for a support card has
resolved successfully.

If you find a (cost 2 or less) support and don't put it into play, you're just cheating. Your opponent might not know it but it doesn't change the fact.

jucagaot > Indeed !

Supa said:

How so?? It is impossible to have an unenforcible rule. Therefore, it cannot be ruled that you must play a support card if a playable one is found. Therefore, it is a perfectly legal play to "not find" a support card to put into play, even if in fact, every single one of the five cards is a two cost support that could be played into the Kingdom. How am I cheating if I am not breaking any rules?

that being said, it is a good question !

i'd like to have an official answer on this one (and explanation btw)

jucagaot said:

Are you sure about that you dont have to shuffle your deck afterwards? In my opininon it doesnt matter if you have found a support card or not. As long as you have searched your top 5 cards, the preceding effect has resolved successfully and afterwards the "then" effect will resolve and you have to shuffle your deck.

f7eleven said:

The card effect forces you to do it. You are forced to search your deck for a support and forced to put it into the play.

Forced effects (rulebook) : Forced effects [..] occur automatically, whether the card's controller wants them to resolve or not.

Forced: After this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card

with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able. Then shuffle your deck.

If you had any choice, it would say : "[...] with cost 2 or lower and you may put it into this zone [...]".

If you don't do it, you're cheating plain and simple. Cheating doesn't imply to be caught or to be able to be caught.

"Are you sure about that you dont have to shuffle your deck afterwards? In my opininon it doesnt matter if you have found a support card or not. As long as you have searched your top 5 cards, the preceding effect has resolved successfully and afterwards the "then" effect will resolve and you have to shuffle your deck."

Mmm. Not sure, maybe you´re right. I think we need a new actualized faq.

You do not shuffle the deck if you do not find a support. It's in the official FAQ, as an example under "Multiple Effects" as part of the Core Set Rulebook Errata.

Clamatius said:

No. According to my reading of this sentence, the only case in which you do not shuffle your deck is if you were unable to search the top 5 cards of it (in the case you have only 4 cards in it).

jucagaot said:

That's wrong. The preceding effect is searching, not finding. So, if you search you shuffle regardless if you found a support or not.

About revealing your hand or not, I have send this to James along with some other questions a month ago and still no answer.

"When this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able."

First action il searching 5 top cards and put a support in play.

If you can't, you will not suffle.

If a card uses the word “then” the
preceding effect must have resolved
successfully before the effect following
the term “then” can be resolved.

Preceding effect: You search 5 cards (resolve successfully!)

"Then" Effect: Shuffle your deck...

Forced:

When this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able.

Then shuffle your deck.

So Preceding effect: When this unit enters play, search the top five cards of your deck for a support card with cost 2 or lower and put it into this zone, if able.

I think

- If I have 4 cards in my decks, search and find a support cost 2 playable => Resolve OK

- If I search the top 5 cards and find a support unplayable or no support cost 2 or lower => Resolve KO.

I think you successfully search 5 cards... the other option has "if able"...

I agree. "If able" shows that the second part of the effect always resolves succesfully.

elyandel said:

How can you search a 4-card deck with an effect that ask you to search the top 5 cards of your deck ?

BTW, if your reading is correct, WH:I would be the very first card games ever to allows you to look through your deck for specific cards without shuffling afterward in all cases. Not sure WH:I is that innovative...

Martin_fr said:

It is Warhammer: Invasion, not Warhammer: Innovation .

f7eleven said:

You can nitpick the rules and claim that you're not cheating and you're right - according the rules, as written, you wouldn't be cheating, per se. However, you would be blatantly lying. If you're okay with lying solely to get an edge in game, that's your issue, I guess. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

Dam said:

It is Warhammer: Invasion, not Warhammer: Innovation .

Wytefang said:

It's not cheating. It's not lying. It's simply making a strategic play choice. I don't understand why you people can't grasp this. I am allowed to make strategic choices with every single other card I'm playing.

If DCC was truly meant to be played the way you're insisting, then it needs to say " Reveal the top 5 cards of your deck" instead of Search the top 5 cards of your deck...